Lit Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki

I mean, I think you are assuming a lot about how much they even know what they are talking about. I don't think they know what the original source of mundi's age was. I don't think they know it was Legends. I don't think they know at all what they are complaining about, they just know the influencer they follow complained about it.

 

...man, though, can you imagine how much worse this would be if Culator was still in charge?

 

Oppo Rancisis' age was changed by The High Republic to be 300+ years old by TPM.

As to Ki-Adi-Mundi's age, the contradictions between Canon and Legends only widen and it's led to this. We've had so much changed over the past decade that its getting harder and harder to accept. Me, I'm just getting more and more reminded of why I disliked Dave Filoni for what he did to Barriss Offee.

 

Honestly what is most hilarious about Mundi-gate or whatever is that frankly ki-adi-mundi has had the most inexplicable hatred directed at him for supposedly treating clones terribly when as far as I know he is fairly consistently treated as a wise empathetic person, if a bit generic at times.

I'm 99% sure this all stems from Bacaras legends page on wookieepedia which starts with a quote that if you lack reading comprehension can be interpreted as him being a callous and cold-hearted general.

Like it's a bizarrely consistent thing too

 

I wonder what the sources were to explain this OOC behaviour? Databank? Fanon that wound its why into original EU canon?

Or maybe because of what Filoni decided to do to the Geonosians in the Second Battle of Geonosis arc where Ki-Adi-Mundi's troops burnt sentient beings alive?

 

I mean Bacaras quote is very obviously him working on incorrect information and assuming that mundi had been helping orchestrate the war from the start.

I frankly doubt the general fandom cares about how brutally the geonosians died beyond the "clear proof this isn't a kids show" crowd. It's amazing how much just swapping a human for a clearly sentient bug can make people just not care. If people cared about the geonosians in that scene they would or should also bring up how Anakin and Obiwan also don't care either.

There is in fact a Lucas quote for that "they are afterall just a bunch of termites".

 

Oh I'm sure much of the hordes are ignorant. But the influencers who stir them up --- they know. They're all just acting in bad faith.

The Barriss change works fine in a rebooted canon; if you have nothing but Episode II to work from then there's no reason she couldn't have been like fourteen in that movie. When you consider that the old EU needed to bend to The Clone Wars throughout its final five years or so, though, it makes you retroactively wish that the EU could have been rebooted in 2008. "Here's one take on the Clone Wars, and here's another take on the Clone Wars" would work a lot better if retcons hadn't mangled the first take beyond all recognition.

Although, beyond like, message board posts and tweets by Leland, were there all that many published works that officially laid down new, earlier dates for the old Clone Wars stuff? Atlas and Warfare, maybe? It would be cool if they could just ignore that, and do something like release like a new edition of Jedi Trial with the Legends banner that says something like "This book was originally set two and a half years into the Clone Wars." Just sort of pretend that that part of the EU was completely rebooted in 2008. No need to split hairs and be like "But later it was changed so it probably takes place a few weeks after the start of the war!" Keep its integrity --- and the integrity of the entire original Clone Wars Multimedia project --- completely intact.

 

The influencers that stir those people up are trying to get their clicks so they don't have to go work at a grocery store.

 

Bold part: That's coming to my thinking now. It's been a fun week in my head.

I miss when things were dated. They refuse to do it now. And it gives me a headache.

It was clear from the onset that Clone Wars ('08-'14) is in a separate 'verse to the original EU. It went completely off the rails in Season 5 when Adi Gallia's death was changed and Barriss Offee was trashed in favour of getting Ahsoka Tano away from Order 66.

 

I don’t think any of them even know what the Episode I Insider’s Guide is. If they know the title at all, most seem to think it was some kind of guidebook or publication. The rest don’t even know where Ki-Adi-Mundi’s birthdate came from and assume it was background information that Lucas wrote down when he invented the character. A lot of people I’ve seen complaining about it don’t seem to understand just how thorough the reboot was; it’s like they assumed that Legends is just the stories of the old EU but basic lore and backstory weren’t affected. I don’t think any of these people are real EU fans, they just have a vague awareness based on Wookieepedia and take their cues from equally ignorant YouTubers who’ve maybe read the Thrawn Trilogy and played a few video games.

Beyond the altered dates though there are still several Legends books featuring Ahsoka as Anakin’s Padawan, among other elements from TCW like Darth Maul returning and having his entire backstory changed. One retcon that might work is saying that Ahsoka was just temporarily assigned to Anakin like Anakin was to Ki-Adi-Mundi in the Republic comics, but clearly no one at LFL cares enough anymore to make something like that official.

 

I would gander that a lot of these people complaining about this aren't even that big of Star Wars fans and probably never really were. They are just people who follow the dude bros channels who attempt to get people riled up about every popular franchise out there.

I would bet a good number of them hadn't even thought about the name Kiadi Mundi before this past week.

I'm really starting to think that regular YouTube needs to become a pay to use offering. That would get a lot of these people off the platform.

 

The decade before was changing things no less frequently.

 

I care, because I hate round numbers in my timeline!

 

Yoda was 999 in ROTJ

 

I think an age of 14 is working less with the Tales of the Empire depicting her as prematurely aging as well as Vernestra Rwoh’s aging in The Acolyte. But maybe we can chalk it up to bad skincare on a backwater world. I think it’s worth opening up a new thread to discuss the aging problem in Star Wars, it seems to be especially relevant to the High Republic’s relationship with the Prequel era.

 

The quote in question is from Karen Traviss' Republic Commando: Order 66. First of all, the book came out in 2008. A whole year before Mundi would order to burn Geonosians alive. Second of all, it's Karen Traviss. She wasn't kind to the Jedi, to put it lightly. She hated them all equally, and she hated them very much. She compared them to Nazis once, lol.

George wanted the flamethrower scene, not Filoni:

So he did not decide anything. Filoni was a supervising director on the show, his job was to relay Lucas' wishes to the rest of the creative team and to keep everyone on the same page. Lucas was the actual creator and executive producer of the show. People really ought to actually watch the behind-the-scenes and read the interviews. This "Filoni boogeyman" is no different from the current day "KK is killing Star Wars!" People have no idea who is responsible for what creative decisions, they do no research, and they always need a scapegoat to blame, so they pick the most visible person, even though there is no proof to their claims — when the reality of a creative process is much more nuanced than that.

I mean, no one was hiding it. George had explicitly stated that:
"I am the father of our Star Wars movie world - the filmed entertainment, the features and now the animated film and television series,” Lucas says. “And I’m going to do a live-action television series. Those are all things I am very involved in: I set them up and I train the people and I go through them all. I’m the father; that’s my work. Then we have the licensing group, which does the games, toys and books, and all that other stuff. I call that the son - and the son does pretty much what he wants.” He laughs. “Once in a while, they ask a question like ‘Can we kill off Yoda?’, things like that, but it’s very loose. Then we have the third group, the holy ghost, which is the bloggers and fans. They have created their own world. I worry about the father’s world. The son and holy ghost can go their own way."

"I’m not sure we really had to think of things as off-limits simply because everything we do, we do right alongside George, but I’m the director as opposed to the writer so maybe I thought of it differently than Henry. I know I imposed restrictions on Henry myself when I could, at least to be careful with the classic characters. Henry and I would get in some great arguments and then George would basically be the “great Decider” as to what direction to go. We could come up with ideas and present them to him immediately, so there was no concern as to whether or not it “was” Star Wars. This series at least to George is NOT EU, it is a part of Star Wars as he sees it. I think if anything there was a period where Henry and I had to learn exactly what it took to be a part of George Lucas’ Star Wars, and tell the Star Wars story his way. We had to learn how to look at the Galaxy from his point of view and let go of some of what we considered canon after we found out the ideas were only EU. Really we had to “unlearn what we had learned” and go back to the movies as the defining source material."—Dave Filoni, Face To Face With The Masters, TheForce.net

And really, was it not clear much, much earlier, than '08-'14? Did the prequels themselves not make it clear? How did that established EU Boba Fett backstory go? What about the Clone Wars, which turned out to be a bunch of cloned Boba Fetts versus a bunch of robots, and not what Zahn had stated? And as the PT was coming out, it actively contradicted Ki-Adi Mundi's EU story, as many have already mentioned. Films and TV were always a separate universe, I don't think Lucas had ever tried to hide it — he was explicit about it. There's plenty of quotes throughout the years, and it's one of those things he'd been consistent about for decades. He was never beholden to it. He specifically compared the EU to the Star Trek EU, which was a parallel universe to Star Trek TV and had nothing to do with it.

It always seemed to me in The Clone Wars that Barriss was a few years older than Ahsoka. Like, there was a clear visual difference between them. As for her aging in Tales of the Empire, I think her using her life-force extensively to heal people is a better explanation for her rapid aging. But yeah, I don't like that High Republic made Mirialans have such a long life-span.

 

TBH I consider any OJO survivor looking older than they should at the time of the OT to just be a 'homage' to Obi-Wan.

...Though I will say just generally speaking that I've long been an advocate for formally decoupling TCW from Legends so that the two continuities have two proper Clone Wars instead of the current awkward entangled mess. (I wouldn't have wanted an outright reboot in 2008, though, as it would eliminate some good stuff elsewhere in the timeline.)

 

Speaking as a 41-year-old I don't think Barriss aged prematurely--I think she was probably mid-thirties and her appearance was just shocking because she'd been frozen in her teens since TCW.

Regarding this whole thing: I think whether any given complainer is conscious of the reboot, the Insider's Guide, etc, is beside the point. The point is they're mad that they gave this queer lady a Star War and they decided to be mad about it the second they heard it existed. Ki's age is just a very easy thing to point to because "hard" numbers are easy to grasp without needing any context--see also SSD lengths and clone numbers.

 

Barriss' aging seemed more apparent because of the Fourth Sister, who looked just the same and hasn't aged a bit, as opposed to Barriss, who got the Obi-Wan Kenobi treatment. Unless "the Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities... such as pristine skin condition and youthfulness."

 

More likely "Force healing is a pathway to quick aging"

 

I've known people in their early 30s who already had white hair and more wrinkles than Barriss in TOTE. In those cases, the individuals had either 1) lived in a rough place throughout their life, or 2) had a serious accident at some point (one case they'd been in a coma for a while after a car collision when 16). Barriss seems to fit both those, since she had definitely been injured after the worm incident in TCW and lived in a rough place.

That said, I am partial to the force healing sideaffect theory too.

 

Yeah this sums it up. It's honestly a little confusing to me that so many people are acting bewildered or bemused by this like it's a more classic nerd meltdown, like the old SSD debates or changing the ninja turtles' colors or giving sonic a new girlfriend or whatever (idk other fandoms I'm just making things up). Like, we're now a decade into this new paradigm lol, why are we pretending any of this is in good faith.

Yeah it was really frustrating that they kept up the fiction that everything was one continuity as long as they did. But it also makes that final period of the EU kind of fascinating—so many strange and contradictory projects were greenlit in that period, so many things that felt like they were de facto reboots alongside other works that were extremely deep cuts. I wish we could get a candid account of what was going on internally at LFL and the licensees during this period, it'd probably be really interesting.

 

Someone else alerted me to it, and even with a long history of wrongness I still can believe it, but apparently some Wookers have gone and deleted factual information about the Dignitaries and their portrayers. Just look at how Francis Batsoni is no longer credited as one of the Ruling Councilors from ROTJ, and instead just for his Cantina appearance:

http://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Francis_Batsoni

http://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Unidentified_Imperial_Advisor_(tall_hat)

http://moviedude.co.uk/1Actors Pages/Francis Batsoni.htm

...does this have anything to do with the recent loss of Aveleyman? Is the Wook really so far gone that they're deleting factual information?

On a similar note, it's baffling that the other Dignitaries still haven't had their portrayers acknowledged, even though there have been plenty of posts about it over the years:

Anthony Lang/Sim Aloo
Francis Batsoni/Tall Hat/"Ars Dangor" (DisnEU)
Michael Josephs/Janus Greejatus
Tommy Graham/Kren Blista-Vanee
John Hay/old guy Dig/"Sate Pestage" (DisnEU)
... and with enough certainty to bet money on it, because several other now deceased extras and actors confirmed it, Tony Castleton as Sixth Dignitary/"Pebimerus Zorn" (DisnEU)/Sir Not Appearing in this infamous 5-man Promotional Image.

 

That they'd outright delete information one actors that is well-backed up is definitely strange.

As for rebooting in '08, I do understand some of the arguments in favor, but as a deeply unhealthy reference book worshiper, I don't think the loss of the Atlas and Guide to Warfare would be worth.

 

Yeah, it would have been devastating for Legacy and KOTOR to have been eighty-sixed even more prematurely than they already were, but on the plus side, we wouldn't have gotten Fate of the Jedi. Not much else from Dark Horse or Del Rey's last five years would be missed, though. A bunch of forgettable standalone novels and comic miniseries... Star Wood, some TOR tie-ins... none of it would rank anywhere high on anyone's lists of the EU's greatest. Does anyone even remember that novels named Scourge or Shadow Games came out during those years? Does anyone have any idea what the hell this is? Those final five years of the EU were mad. Just absolutely mad.