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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Yoda's thoughts about death in ep3 are a lie

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by march162015, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. Pain and Suffering

    Pain and Suffering Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2015
    So now it doesn't matter to the Jedi when someone is going to die? I thought the Jedi were all about trying to save as many lives as possible. Or maybe Yoda would normally try to save that person, but because it's Anakin's vision and Anakin is attached to that person, maybe they think it's better to sacrifice that person to teach Anakin a lesson.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    LOL really? You're distorting Jedi philosophy to paint Anakin as a victim?

    Anakin was not a victim because he chose to break the rules and because he chose to only take advice when it fit in with what he wanted to hear.

    The Jedi are about making peace with the inevitable. They do try to save lives, but not to the point of using Dark Side techniques to do it.

    Yoda most likely knew that Anakin was talking about Padme. He also knew that Padme had the best medical care in the galaxy (even if he did not know she was pregnant) and that she had the best security possible.

    Again...what exactly was Yoda supposed to do to help save Padme's life? You are remembering that Padme died because Anakin choked her and she "lost the will to live"? Which part of that was Yoda supposed to fix?
     
  3. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
  4. zompusbite

    zompusbite Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2014
    From the Stover novelization, these quotes come :

    Chapter 1 (during the battle of Coruscant)
    Not long after he became Obi-Wan’s Padawan, all those years ago, a minor mission had brought them to a dead system: one so immeasurably old that its star had long ago turned to a frigid dwarf of hypercompacted trace metals, hovering a quantum fraction of a degree above absolute zero. Anakin couldn’t even remember what the mission might have been, but he’d never forgotten that dead star.
    It had scared him.
    “Stars can die—?”
    “It is the way of the universe, which is another manner of saying that it is the will of the Force,” Obi-Wan had told him. “Everything dies. In time, even stars burn out. This is why Jedi form no attachments: all things pass. To hold on to something—or someone—beyond its time is to set your selfish desires against the Force. That is a path of misery, Anakin; the Jedi do not walk it.”

    Chapter 7 (when Anakin was landing the ship carrying Obi-wan, Palpatine, R2D2 and himself)
    It is the Force that makes this possible, and more than the Force. Anakin has no interest in serene acceptance of what the Force will bring. Not here. Not now. Not with the lives of Palpatine and Obi-Wan at stake. It’s just the opposite: he seizes upon the Force with a stark refusal to fail.
    He will land this ship.
    He will save his friends.
    Between his will and the will of the Force, there is no contest.

    Chapter 10 (conversation between Anakin and Yoda)
    When a Jedi had a question about the deepest subtleties of the Force, there was one source to whom he could always turn; and so, first thing that morning, without even taking time to stop by his own quarters for a change of clothing, Anakin had gone to Yoda for advice.
    He’d been surprised by how graciously the ancient Jedi Master had invited him into his quarters, and by how patiently Yoda had listened to his stumbling attempts to explain his question without giving away his secret; Yoda had never made any attempt to conceal what had always seemed to Anakin to be a gruff disapproval of Anakin’s very existence.
    But this morning, despite clearly having other things on his mind—even Anakin’s Force perceptions, far from the most subtle, had detected echoes of conflict and worry within the Master’s chamber—Yoda had simply offered Anakin a place on one of the softly rounded pod seats and suggested that they meditate together.
    He hadn’t even asked for details.
    Anakin had been so grateful—and so relieved, and so unexpectedly hopeful—that he’d found tears welling into his eyes, and some few minutes had been required for him to compose himself into proper Jedi serenity.
    After a time, Yoda’s eyes had slowly opened and the deep furrows on his ancient brow had deepened further. “Premonitions … premonitions … deep questions they are. Sense the future, once all Jedi could; now few alone have this skill. Visions … gifts from the Force, and curses. Signposts and snares. These visions of yours …”
    “They are of pain,” Anakin had said. “Of suffering.” He had barely been able to make himself add: “And death.”
    “In these troubled times, no surprise this is. Yourself you see, or someone you know?”
    Anakin had not trusted himself to answer.
    “Someone close to you?” Yoda had prompted gently.
    “Yes,” Anakin had replied, eyes turned away from Yoda’s too-wise stare. Let him think he was talking about Obi-Wan. It was close enough.
    Yoda’s voice was still gentle, and understanding. “The fear of loss is a path to the dark side, young one.”
    “I won’t let my visions come true, Master. I won’t.”
    “Rejoice for those who transform into the Force. Mourn them not. Miss them not.”
    “Then why do we fight at all, Master? Why save anybody?”
    “Speaking of anybody, we are not,” Yoda had said sternly. “Speaking of you, and your vision, and your fear, we are. The shadow of greed, attachment is. What you fear to lose, train yourself to release. Let go of fear, and loss cannot harm you.”
    Which was when Anakin had realized Yoda wasn’t going to be any help at all. The greatest sage of the Jedi Order had nothing better to offer him than more pious babble about Letting Things Pass Out Of His Life.
    Like he hadn’t heard that a million times already.
    Easy for him—who had Yoda ever cared about? Really cared about? Of one thing Anakin was certain: the ancient Master had never been in love.
    Or he would have known better than to expect Anakin to just fold his hands and close his eyes and settle in to meditate while what was left of Padmé’s life evaporated like the ghost-mist of dew in a Tatooine winter dawn …
    So all that had been left for him was to find some way to respectfully extricate himself.
    And then go find Obi-Wan.
    Because he wasn’t about to give up. Not in this millennium.

    Chapter 15 (when Palpatine revealed himself to Anakin)
    “If only you could know how I have longed to tell you, Anakin. All these years—since the very day we met, my boy. I have watched over you, waiting as you grew in strength and wisdom, biding my time until now, today, when you are finally ready to understand who you truly are, and your true place in the history of the galaxy.”
    Numb words blur from your numb lips. “The chosen one …”
    “Exactly, my boy. Exactly. You are the chosen one.” He leans toward you, eyes clear. Steady. Utterly honest. “Chosen by me.”
    He turns a hand toward the panorama of light-sprayed cityscape through the window behind his desk. “Look out there, Anakin. A trillion beings on this planet alone—in the galaxy as a whole, uncounted quadrillions—and of them all, I have chosen you, Anakin Skywalker, to be the heir to my power. To all that I am.”
    “But that’s not … that’s not the prophecy. That’s not the prophecy of the chosen one …”
    “Is this such a problem for you? Is not your quest to find a way to overturn prophecy?” Palpatine leaned close, smiling, warm and kindly. “Anakin, do you think the Sith did not know of this prophecy? Do you think we would simply sleep while it came to pass?”
    “You mean—”
    “This is what you must understand. This Jedi submission to fate … this is not the way of the Sith, Anakin. This is not my way. This is not your way. It has never been. It need never be.”

    Chapter 17 (when Anakin was alone in the Jedi Council Room after Mace told him to stay in the Temple)
    Alone in the Chamber of the Jedi Council, Anakin Skywalker wrestled with his dragon.
    He was losing.
    He paced the Chamber in blind arcs, stumbling among the chairs. He could not feel currents of the Force around him; he could not feel echoes of Jedi Masters in these ancient seats.
    He had never dreamed there was this much pain in the universe.
    Physical pain he could have handled even without his Jedi mental skills; he’d always been tough. At four years old he’d been able to take the worst beating Watto would deliver without so much as making a sound.
    Nothing had prepared him for this.
    He wanted to rip open his chest with his bare hands and claw out his heart.
    “What have I done?” The question started as a low moan but grew to a howl he could no longer lock behind his teeth. “What have I done?”
    He knew the answer: he had done his duty.
    And now he couldn’t imagine why.
    When I die, Palpatine had said, so calmly, so warmly, so reasonably, my knowledge dies with me …
    Everywhere he looked, he saw only the face of the woman he loved beyond love: the woman for whom he channeled through his body all the love that had ever existed in the galaxy. In the universe.
    He didn’t care what she had done. He didn’t care about conspiracies or cabals or secret pacts. Treason meant nothing to him now. She was everything that had ever been loved by anyone, and he was watching her die.
    His agony somehow became an invisible hand, stretching out through the Force, a hand that found her, far away, alone in her apartment in the dark, a hand that felt the silken softness of her skin and the sleek coils of her hair, a hand that dissolved into a field of pure energy, of pure feeling that reached inside her—
    And now he felt her, really felt her in the Force, as though she could have been some kind of Jedi, too, but more than that: he felt a bond, a connection, deeper and more intimate than he’d ever had before with anyone, even Obi-Wan; for a precious eternal instant he was her … he was the beat of her heart and he was the motion of her lips and he was her soft words as though she spoke a prayer to the stars—
    I love you, Anakin. I am yours, in life, and in death, wherever you go, whatever you do, we will always be one. Never doubt me, my love. I am yours.
    —and her purity and her passion and the truth of her love flowed into him and through him and every atom of him screamed to the Force how can I let her die?
    The Force had no answer for him.
    The dragon, on the other hand, did.
    All things die, Anakin Skywalker. Even stars burn out.
    And no matter how hard he tried to summon it, no wisdom of Yoda’s, no teaching of Obi-Wan’s, not one scrap of Jedi lore came to him that could choke the dragon down.
    But there was an answer; he’d heard it just the other night.
    With such knowledge, to maintain life in someone already living would seem a small matter, don’t you agree?
    Anakin stopped. His agony evaporated.
    Palpatine was right.
    It was simple.
    All he had to do was decide what he wanted.

    In the same Chapter (After Anakin betrayed Mace...)
    Anakin Skywalker knelt in the rain.
    He was looking at a hand. The hand had brown skin. The hand held a lightsaber. The hand had a charred oval of tissue where it should have been attached to an arm.
    “What have I done?”
    Was it his voice? It must have been. Because it was his question.
    “What have I done?”
    Another hand, a warm and human hand, laid itself softly on his shoulder.
    “You’re following your destiny, Anakin,” said a familiar gentle voice. “The Jedi are traitors. You saved the Republic from their treachery. You can see that, can’t you?”
    “You were right,” Anakin heard himself saying. “Why didn’t I know?”
    “You couldn’t have. They cloaked themselves in deception, my boy. Because they feared your power, they could never trust you.”
    Anakin stared at the hand, but he no longer saw it. “Obi-Wan—Obi-Wan trusts me …”
    “Not enough to tell you of their plot.”
    Treason echoed in his memory.
    … this is not an assignment for the record …
    That warm and human hand gave his shoulder a warm and human squeeze. “I do not fear your power, Anakin, I embrace it. You are the greatest of the Jedi. You can be the greatest of the Sith. I believe that, Anakin. I believe in you. I trust you. I trust you. I trust you.”
    Anakin looked from the dead hand on the ledge to the living one on his shoulder, then up to the face of the man who stood above him, and what he saw there choked him like an invisible fist crushing his throat.
    The hand on his shoulder was human.
    The face … wasn’t.
    The eyes were a cold and feral yellow, and they gleamed like those of a predator lurking beyond a fringe of firelight; the bone around those feral eyes had swollen and melted and flowed like durasteel spilled from a fusion smelter, and the flesh that blanketed it had gone corpse-gray and coarse as rotten synthplast.
    Stunned with horror, stunned with revulsion, Anakin could only stare at the creature. At the shadow.
    Looking into the face of the darkness, he saw his future.
    “Now come inside,” the darkness said.
    After a moment, he did.
    Anakin stood just within the office. Motionless.
    Palpatine examined the damage to his face in a broad expanse of wall mirror. Anakin couldn’t tell if his expression might be revulsion, or if this were merely the new shape of his features. Palpatine lifted one tentative hand to the misshapen horror that he now saw in the mirror, then simply shrugged.
    “And so the mask becomes the man,” he sighed with a hint of philosophical melancholy. “I shall miss the face of Palpatine, I think; but for our purpose, the face of Sidious will serve. Yes, it will serve.”
    He gestured, and a hidden compartment opened in the office’s ceiling above his desk. A voluminous robe of heavy black-on-black brocade floated downward from it; Anakin felt the current in the Force that carried the robe to Palpatine’s hand.
    He remembered playing a Force game with a shuura fruit, sitting across a long table from Padmé in the retreat by the lake on Naboo. He remembered telling her how grumpy Obi-Wan would be to see him use the Force so casually.
    Palaptine seemed to catch his thought; he gave a yellow sidelong glance as the robe settled onto his shoulders.
    “You must learn to cast off the petty restraints that the Jedi have tried to place upon your power,” he said. “Anakin, it’s time. I need you to help me restore order to the galaxy.”
    Anakin didn’t respond.
    Sidious said, “Join me. Pledge yourself to the Sith. Become my apprentice.”
    A wave of tingling started at the base of Anakin’s skull and spread over his whole body in a slow-motion shock wave.
    “I—I can’t.”
    “Of course you can.”
    Anakin shook his head and found that the rest of him threatened to begin shaking as well. “I—came to save your life, sir. Not to betray my friends—”
    Sidious snorted. “What friends?”
    Anakin could find no answer.
    “And do you think that task is finished, my boy?” Sidious seated himself on the corner of the desk, hands folded in his lap, the way he always had when offering Anakin fatherly advice; the misshapen mask of his face made the familiarity of his posture into something horrible. “Do you think that killing one traitor will end treason? Do you think the Jedi will ever stop until I am dead?”
    Anakin stared at his hands. The left one was shaking. He hid it behind him.
    “It’s them or me, Anakin. Or perhaps I should put it more plainly: It’s them or Padmé.”
    Anakin made his right hand—his black-gloved hand of durasteel and electrodrivers—into a fist.
    “It’s just—it’s not … easy, that’s all. I have—I’ve been a Jedi for so long—”
    Sidious offered an appalling smile. “There is a place within you, my boy, a place as briskly clean as ice on a mountaintop, cool and remote. Find that high place, and look down within yourself; breathe that clean, icy air as you regard your guilt and shame. Do not deny them; observe them. Take your horror in your hands and look at it. Examine it as a phenomenon. Smell it. Taste it. Come to know it as only you can, for it is yours, and it is precious.”
    As the shadow beside him spoke, its words became true. From a remote, frozen distance that was at the same time more extravagantly, hotly intimate than he could have ever dreamed, Anakin handled his emotions. He dissected them. He reassembled them and pulled them apart again. He still felt them—if anything, they burned hotter than before—but they no longer had the power to cloud his mind.
    “You have found it, my boy: I can feel you there. That cold distance—that mountaintop within yourself—that is the first key to the power of the Sith.”
    Anakin opened his eyes and turned his gaze fully upon the grotesque features of Darth Sidious.
    He didn’t even blink.
    As he looked upon that mask of corruption, the revulsion he felt was real, and it was powerful, and it was—
    Interesting.
    Anakin lifted his hand of durasteel and electrodrivers and cupped it, staring into its palm as though he held there the fear that had haunted his dreams for his whole life, and it was no larger than the piece of shuura he’d once stolen from Padmé’s plate.
    On the mountain peak within himself, he weighed Padmé’s life against the Jedi Order.
    It was no contest.
    He said, “Yes.”
    “Yes to what, my boy?”
    “Yes, I want your knowledge.”
    “Good. Good!”
    “I want your power. I want the power to stop death.”
    “That power only my Master truly achieved, but together we will find it. The Force is strong with you, my boy. You can do anything.”
    “The Jedi betrayed you,” Anakin said. “The Jedi betrayed both of us.”
    “As you say. Are you ready?”
    “I am,” he said, and meant it. “I give myself to you. I pledge myself to the ways of the Sith. Take me as your apprentice. Teach me. Lead me. Be my Master.”
    Sidious raised the hood of his robe and draped it to shadow the ruin of his face.
    “Kneel before me, Anakin Skywalker.”
    Anakin dropped to one knee. He lowered his head.
    “It is your will to join your destiny forever with the Order of the Sith Lords?”
    There was no hesitation. “Yes.”
    Darth Sidious laid a pale hand on Anakin’s brow. “Then it is done. You are now one with the Order of the Dark Lords of the Sith. From this day forward, the truth of you, my apprentice, now and forevermore, will be Darth …”
    A pause; a questioning in the Force—
    An answer, dark as the gap between galaxies—
    He heard Sidious say it: his new name.
    Vader.
    A pair of syllables that meant him.
    Vader, he said to himself. Vader.
    “Thank you, my Master.”

    Thank you for reading me, my Masters...
     
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  5. hairymuggle

    hairymuggle Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Exactly. Despite all the outrage at Yoda's supposedly "heartless" advice, the fact remains Anakin would not have doomed the Republic or lost Padme had he just listened and obeyed (which proved Yoda knew what he was on about, no?). The thing that "let Padme die" was Anakin's paranoia, not the Jedi's passivity.
     
  6. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    You have to go through certain emotional stages when it comes to life and death, which everyone does. But one thing that you learn is that you cannot spend each day worrying about the end. Living in fear of that day is not healthy for anyone. Anakin shouldn't have done that, but he did. It is that fear of the end that haunted him and drove him to act. Anakin feared death and that fear is not healthy. You have to learn to let go of that fear and live for the moment, rather than waiting for something that will come sooner or later. To do so, you must find other things to occupy your mind to the point where you won't dwell on it. Then, it won't seem as frightening as it did at first.
     
  7. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Which is what Yoda was driving at (in his weird way) - there is no shame in fearing loss, or mourning others' passing. But allowing that fear to control you and dictate your actions is unwise and unhealthy. Sadly Anakin interpreted Yoda's words as 'A Jedi never has any emotions' and went to Palpatine instead. Yoda for his part was pretty foolish if he didn't realise Anakin might have got the wrong end of the proverbial stick but it was Anakin's mistake to make.
     
  8. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011

    I'm not sure Anakin really did misinterpret Yoda's words. Yoda told Anakin that death was an inevitability and it was something he was just going to have to deal with. Anakin couldn't accept that, so he went to someone who promised him the ability to vanquish death. Yoda could never promise Anakin that, because it's only something that can be achieved for oneself, by letting go of everything.
     
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  9. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Yeah, I think jakobitis is right about Yoda's meaning, but Anakin did not want to hear anything other than "we'll keep her alive," so it may have been less of a misinterpretation on Anakin's part as willful ignorance.
     
  10. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    That is a fair interpretation also. But in either case Yoda was not actually trying to tell Anakin that it was any way actually wrong to mourn those you lost, or that fearing loss was in itself a bad thing... simply that however bad those things made you feel, you had to let it go and not let it control you. Missing those who have died is not against the Jedi way, refusing to accept that eventually everyone will die - and that's how it should be - is wrong. For me, Anakin took the words to mean that Yoda was telling himself basically to suck it up and stick it out, which is not quite true.
    Yoda (and the 'standard' Jedi) said it was okay to have emotions, but not to let them control you. Anakin believed him to be saying 'control yourself and don't ever let yourself HAVE emotions.' Palpatine came in with the third option that was 'use your emotions and let them control you' which was very appealing to Anakin in his current state.
     
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  11. zompusbite

    zompusbite Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2014
    Exactly. That is why each Jedi carry is own Light. By acheiving mastery over oneself, by trying to find Peace and Harmony with the Force and the Universe, a Jedi create a zone of neutrality, of calm and serenity where he can dwell in difficults moments and where the Force can freely flow through himself. It is that Light which is the true Power of the Jedi because it's represent their innerself : Kindness, Compassion, Empathy, Sens of Sacrifice, and the most important, Love (Love to every life forms of the Universe, good or evil). It's a bidimensional relationship : the Force feed upon the Light and the Light feed upon the Force. But Anakin lacked that Light because he thought that he didn't need that. I think that the real problem is that Anakin, unlike the rest of the Jedi, didn't see the Force as an ally, a protector, the beginning and the end of everything ; he sees the Force just as a source of Power, an immeasurable energy that exist only to serve his will. By stubbornly refusing the Jedi philosophy, he exposed himself to the temptations of the Dark Side. Instead of acheiving a deep, inner Peace in the purpose of finding his Light, he, as always, choose another way. He choose Padme as his Light, deliberatly Obi-wan warning about that :
    “Everything dies. In time, even stars burn out. This is why Jedi form no attachments: all things pass. To hold on to something—or someone—beyond its time is to set your selfish desires against the Force. That is a path of misery, Anakin; the Jedi do not walk it.”
    So when he thought he would lost his Light, Fear penetrated his heart, making him an easy pawn for Palpatine.
    Thank you for reading me.
     
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  12. Pain and Suffering

    Pain and Suffering Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2015
    I just think it is funny Yoda seemed more concerned about Anakin's attachment problems rather than what was go to happen to the person who was going to die. I think Yoda could have had a gentler approach than "Rejoice for those who transform into the force." I really think a little sympathy would go a long way, or at least trying to be understanding. You must remember that Yoda has had like 800+ years to understand and follow the Jedi Code and Anakin has had 13 years. Plus I believe Yoda was brought into the Order when he was young, so he probably doesn't remember anything about his life before so he would have always known the Jedi Code and nothing else, but that is not the case with Anakin.


    I do know that the Jedi's job is to try to save lives. Although sometimes it seems like the Jedi are a little quick to label people as a lost cause. Like in "Weapons Factory", Luminara seemed pretty quick to give up on her Padawan when Ahsoka and Bariss were trapped under all that debris.

    It could have just as easily been Kenobi or Ahsoka in Anakin's force vision. I just think Yoda would have been a little more interested in his vision. I wouldn't say force visions are rare, exactly, but they don't seem to be common, either. And what is the point of a force vision if you are not supposed to act on it in some way?

    Maybe the Jedi should state things a little more plainly, then. If it wasn't wrong to feel sad that Padme was going to die, then why didn't Yoda just say so? I've always thought the Jedi were not supposed to have emotions. Maybe changing their Jedi mantra from "There is no emotion" to something else would be a good place to start.
     
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  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Right, which Lucas confirms.

    "When you get down to where we are right now in the story, you basically get somebody who’s going to make a pact with the Devil, and it’s going to be a pact with the Devil that says, 'I want the power to save somebody from death. I want to be able to stop them from going to the river Styx, and I need to go to a god for that, but the gods won’t do it, so I’m going to go down to Hades and get the Dark Lord to allow me to have this power that will allow me to save the very person I want to hang on to.' You know, it’s Faust. So Anakin wants that power, and that is basically a bad thing. If you’re going to sell your soul to save somebody you love, that’s not a good thing. That’s as we say in the film, unnatural. You have to accept that natural course of life. Of all things. Death is obviously the biggest of them all. Not only death for yourself but death for the things you care about."

    --George Lucas, quoted in J. Windolf, “Star Wars: The Last Battle,” Vanity Fair, 2005


    Anakin doesn't want sympathy. He wants action. He wants power over life and death and if he won't get it from the Jedi, he'll find someone else who will give it to him.

    Yet, Anakin acted and it cost him big time. The point of the visions is that they serve as warnings of the future, but how you act and react is what determines the outcome. Kanan told Ezra to trust the Force when it came to visions, but he also told him that they can be misjudged because of your emotions. If you react emotionally, you can wind up getting into trouble. Anakin reacted because he let his fear dictate his actions. He was afraid to be alone and he was afraid of death. This fear is what drove him to the dark side and thus caused his vision to come true. If he had abandoned his fears, then his vision wouldn't have come true.

    A Jedi can feel emotions, but they cannot be ruled by them. They must feel compassion for others. They are encouraged to love, but compassionately and selflessly. "There is no emotion, there is only peace" means that a Jedi is only at their strongest when fear, anger, hate, jealousy, obsession and greed have been conquered.

    YODA: "Run! Yes. A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger... fear... aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

    LUKE: "Vader. Is the dark side stronger?"

    YODA: "No... no... no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

    LUKE: "But how am I to know the good side from the bad?"

    YODA: "You will know. When you are calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."


    KI-ADI: "Your thoughts dwell on your mother."

    ANAKIN: "I miss her."

    YODA: "Afraid to lose her… I think."

    ANAKIN: "What’s that got to do with anything?"

    YODA: "Everything. Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate...hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you."
     
  14. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    That's only one version of the mantra; the other is "Emotion, yet peace." Also, "there is no emotion" is only interpreted as "LITERALLY don't feel anything" by, well, literalists. It makes more sense to interpret it as 'being ruled by emotion is the pathway away from peace'. Which is true.

    And if Anakin had followed the advice that Yoda gave him, he would have found as much comfort and support as he needed. Yoda was teaching him how to solve his problem, which is what he (supposedly) went to Yoda for.

    As far as who was in the vision...Jedi do not put one life above another, that is part of the point of nonattachment, so even if Anakin did see Obi-Wan in the vision, it would be irrelevant.
     
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  15. uperduper

    uperduper Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2015
    yes, it insults me he says I must not feel bad if a loved one dies
     
  16. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    No, not really. The ultimate end of life is going to come when it will, how it will, and will come to all. The "reward" for death is to join the Force, much as some real life religions see death as a "entrance into heaven" or whatever. The whole "s/he has gone to a better place" is supposed to be this wonderful next step - so if this is so wonderful, why do we mourn it?

    The answer is we actually mourn what WE, those left behind, have lost - that person's wit, compassion, love, etc.

    From that viewpoint, transforming into the Force is a good thing, and something the Jedi accept. To overly deeply mourn is to focus on one's loss, not the other person's transformation.

    IMHO, the Jedi do know that grief will affect them, but that ultimately they need to work through and past that grief and not let it affect them - i.e., don't slaughter an entire tribe for the crimes of a few.

    An aside: I don't know who created the "Jedi mantra" or how canon it IS versus how accepted as canon it is, but I see it as an ideal, something to strive for - there is no fear, no anger, no rage pushing you to retaliate against someone - breath deeply, accept you are angry and release the emotion so that you aren't driven by it - lower the adrenaline response...etc.
     
  17. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    That, to me, is the core of Jedi teachings. No matter how upset you are, how pissed off you are, you are in control of your emotions. You are not defined by what you're feeling at that moment.
     
  18. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    That's not what Yoda says. As I've said before, when you mourn, ask yourself, are you mourning for the person who is gone or are you mourning for yourself? Yoda tells Anakin that he is mourning himself more than the person. He is mourning the life that he has is going to be gone now. That is what drives him to the dark side.
     
  19. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Exactly, Anakin wasn't sorry because Padme was going to die. He was upset because HE would then be alone, without her. Perhaps even there was an element of pride that someone as powerful as he was/is couldn't somehow prevent death. It's not entirely unsympathetic but it's very much against the Jedi way. It's the same principle as when Obi-Wan saw Qui-Gonn get killed. Initially he did give into his anger and whilst it gave him a brief advantage it also got him deprived of his weapon and dangling off the edge. When he got control of himself, he found the one way he could win - but Qui-Gonn would still be dead. Anakin never learned that acceptance and control.
     
    only one kenobi and Valairy Scot like this.
  20. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011

    He doesn't say anything to you. He says something to Anakin Skywalker, a Jedi Knight.

    Then again, this is in a thread that calls philosophy/advice a lie.

    "You play with fire and you're gonna get burned." LIES, I played with fire and did not get burned. So did you! LIES!
    "A stitch in time saves nine." LIES, I only saved eight!
    "The best things in life are free." LIES, the best thing in life is an XBOX One!
    "All's fair in love and war." LIES, there are things in war that are considered unfair, they're called war crimes!

    Let's try a koan.

    "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" You can't clap with one hand! That's just weak writing.
     
  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Exactly. Pretty good advice for the real world as well.