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Amph "You think you're the only superhero in the world?" - The Marvel Cinematic Universe

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Apr 26, 2010.

  1. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    That Captain Marvel is yet another great digital manipulation by Boss Logic. Dude is on fire lately. If she is that powerful, no complaints here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
    Sith_Sensei__Prime likes this.
  2. Luke02

    Luke02 Chosen One star 6

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    Sep 19, 2002
    I give the Russo Brothers credit they are trying to keep the true plot of Infinity War a secret. It will leak at some point though that opening week, it always does.

    As for Captain Marvel, I am really excited for it except i do flinch when it is mentioned that CM is the most powerful MCU character. I am not a big fan of all powerful characters which is why I think Superman has always struggles to be adapted into a movie or TV with couple noticeable exceptions. Perhaps CM will just be the most powerful MCU character so far. My feeling is that Carol will be the first of the new characters of the Avengers 2.0 therefore everything has to be raised up a level. So each new character is going to be have a little more “mpphhhhh” to them then the previous generation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  3. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Chosen One star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    Yes, Deus Ex Machina characters can be problematic (which is why Marvel Comics seem to be so fidgety with Doctor Strange's power levels. No wonder why he'll be sent into space as of June. Get that man off world pronto.)

    In regards to Carol, whatever they do as long as her great powers feel like a natural extension of MCU type abilities that is fine. I am not sure we've even seen very powerful heroes in the MCU (except for Thor's power up in T:R).

    Either way, she'll be yet another MCU character who I will see only if she appears in movies with characters I like.
     
  4. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    Continuing on the road to Infinity War, next up Captain America: Civil War

    Release Date: May 6, 2016 - Worldwide Box Office: $1,153,304,495



    On January 17, 2014, DC/WB announced that their follow up film to Man of Steel was being pushed back from July 17, 2015 to May 6, 2016, as noted in this IGN article:
    So, DC/WB definitely threw down the "gauntlet" at Marvel Studios by deciding to drop their two biggest, and arguably, the world's most popular superheroes against whatever the MCU was cooking up.

    About a couple of months later, on March 12, 2014, in an interview with IGN, Kevin Feige commented on the release date of Batman v. Superman: MARVEL STUDIOS STILL INTENDS TO OPEN PHASE 3 MOVIE ON SAME DATE AS BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN:
    A day later, on March 13, 2014, The Hollywood Reporter broke the news that it would be Captain America 3 that would be taking on Batman v. Superman with an articled titled, "Mystery Solved: 'Captain America 3' to Challenge Batman-Superman Head On (Exclusive)."
    A couple weeks later, the directors and some of the cast of Captain America: The Winter Soldier were in the UK doing a press tours and they were asked about going head-to-head with Batman v. Superman and there are their responses (for video, clickly HERE):

    On October 28, 2014, Marvel Studios invited various members of the press to the El Capitan Theatre in Hollywood, where President Kevin Feige took to the stage to announce the full slate for Phase 3 of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, featuring a mix of fan-favorite characters along with a number of heroes set to make their big screen debut in the coming years.

    Initially, Captain America 3 was titled "The Serpent Society," which boggled comic book fans and the general movie going audience as media outlets rushed to put this information out into the world and trying to scoop their competitors from this news.

    [​IMG]

    However, the Serpent Society was short lived as Kevin Feige reveal the true title of Captain America 3 as Civil War and brought out the two titular characters/actors onto the stage for that announcement. Side note, the reason why Feige use Serpent Society as a faux title was to not steal the attention away from the rest of the presentation as the Marvel movie slate was revealed early in the presentation.

    [​IMG]

    At this time, there were rumors and speculations that Marvel would announce that they had reached a deal with Sony and that at this presentation Marvel would make the official announcement that Spider-Man was indeed now part of the MCU and he would make his first appearance in this film, as he was a pivotal part in the comic book story line. As such, there were some that hope Andrew Garfield would appear on stage with Robert Downey, Jr. and Chris Evan. However, that wasn't to be. Instead, it was Chadwick Boseman that was brought onto the stage, and many thought he would play the pivotal role of Spider-Man.

    [​IMG]


    So, no Spider-Man but Black Panther for Captain America: Civil War. This was a major bummer because of all the leaked emails from Sony regarding the prospects of including Spider-Man in the MCU. Moreover, Spider-Man is literally the face of Marvel comics and was a huge element in the comic book story line of Civil War whereas Black Panther was, at best, a C-list character and really didn't play a part in the comic book story (IIRC), so it's not at all a slight at Black Panther.

    Incidentally, Civil War, was the film that emancipated Kevin Feige from the thriftiness of Ike Perlmutter and thus created the widening rift between Marvel Studios and Marvel Entertainment (Marvel TV).

    When Captain America: Civil War was announced, I thought, it's too soon to tell this story in the MCU as the comic book version had a much larger scope in terms of characters, different elements/circumstances (masks/secret identities) and history. Additionally, as noted above there will be no Spider-Man in this film. Evidently, Civil War was a direct response to Batman v. Superman as noted in this article from ScreenRant:
    On August 6, 2014, DC/WB announced their were moving away from going head-to-head with Marvel in this Variety article:
    I was a bit disappointed by the news because I wanted to see both franchises go head-to-head and buy tickets for both films on the same day. It would have been an incredible freak out day for comic book nerds like myself.

    On February 9, 2015, Marvel released a press statement announces a deal was reached with Sony allowing Spider-Man to be part of the MCU.
    Remember, this news of Spider-Man being part of the MCU was about the equivalent of the news of the Fox/Disney deal where it would bring the X-Men and Fantastic Four characters into the MCU. So there was alot of joy and excitement about this announcement.

    On June 24, 2015, it was confirmed that Spider-Man would make his first appearance in the MCU in Captain America: Civil War.
    Now with everything set in place, it's time to actually talk about this film.

    Captain America: Civil War is often jokingly referred to as Avengers: 2.5 and deserving so, as it brings a more of a closure to Phase II more than Age of Ultron, as there were seeds planted towards the show down between Captain America and Iron Man. And since I thought it was too early to tell the story of Civil War and it felt like the perfect ending to Phase II (as it began with Iron Man 3 where Tony felt like giving up the Iron Man gig), I thought it would have been titled Captain America: Avengers Disassembled.

    The film starts off with a flashback and showing the audience a glimpse into the Winter Solider program and "Bucky" was de-iced and prepared for his next mission which was an underlying thread for the film and was the catalyst for the emotional climax at the end.

    Next, we see the New Avengers in Lagos on a mission. It's in this scene where the Russo's showcase one of the many talents for directing, as build up to action is suspenseful and the action piece is beautifully choreographed and filmed. The team is spread out and surveying the area, while Wanda is getting valuable field experience as Natasha guides her along.

    The Russo Brothers do a wonderful job of setting the realistic tone for the film and grounding the story to reflect the real world. It kind of reminds me of Christopher Nolan's work in The Dark Knight, particularly the opening banking robbery sequence. Once the action picks up, it goes at a sizzling pace. And once again, the Russos gives each character a moment to shine and make a contribution to the mission.

    [​IMG]

    Of course, the mission ends in a failure and the world is demanding oversight and accountability of the Avengers. Thus the Sokovia accords, which is a good adaptation of the comic book catalyst for the Civil War, the "Registration Act," (however, the consequences and impact are not the same as secret identities is a huge element in the comic books, and thus, why Spider-Man was a pivotal character). Of course, because of the Sokovia accords, the Avengers two figure heads are at odds. Tony believes in accountability and oversight, while Steve believes such oversight can't be trusted and a committee (Princess Leia reference) may take too long to act or make the wrong choices (i.e. The World Council in The Avengers and The Winter Soldier). The conference/announcement of the Sokovia accords in Vienna leads to a terrorists like attack on the meeting which resulted in the death of King T'Chaka of Wakanda.

    Now, when you step back and look at the characters and story threads of Civil War, the film may look bloated and over saturated but the Russo Brothers are up to the challenge and make everything flow so well and feel organic. It's much like the same way Peter Jackson handled all the characters in the Oscar winning Return of the King, as the Russos build off the story elements and characters from the previous films set the final stage of the Captain America trilogy. Therefore, within this Civil War we get the origin story to Black Panther and it does not feel shoe horned into the film.

    Civil War was a huge level of difficulty to pull off, in gymnastic terms, it's a level 10 as the film has to incorporate the underlying themes that would cause the rift between the Avengers, tell the origin story of Black Panther, balance the plethora of characters, create a story arc for the villain, set up a twist, be a blockbuster spectacle, introduce Spider-Man to the MCU, provide a backstory for the Winter Soldier program and complete an over arcing thread of the Captain America trilogy. Under lesser directing hands, this type of film of hero vs. hero may have ended up too dire and fragmented.

    The villain, Zemo, was a product of the events that occurred in Sokovia. And initially, it was thought we was looking to raise an army of super soldiers lead by Bucky as he used the magic words to mind control him and wanted to learn about a mission report of December 16, 1991. There was a Sixth Sense type of twist connected to Zemo, and that was listening to his voice mail. I thought that was such a nice touch for the motivation and driving force for behind Zemo's story arc. And a side effect to Zemo's plan of framing Bucky to come out of hiding was the revenge factor and motivation for the Black Panther, and thus we get the hunt for The Winter Soldier.

    The hunt, capture and escape of The Winter Soldier lead to some many outstanding action pieces. Additionally, the action pieces are also used as character development. I mean, it was a marvelous idea to have Bucky fight T'Challa, as it demonstrates the powers, skills and abilities of the Black Panther. Remember, Bucky was a terror in the The Winter Soldier, but now he's the one being terrorized. It's not just mindless action and something just put in the movie because the director thought it would be cool.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Again, the Russo Brothers out classed any Hollywood action blockbuster sequences, which are showcased the hand-to-hand fight choreography and the intensity and drama of the action pieces, like this gif with Tony nearly getting his head blown off and the reaction thereto. It's so brilliant all the way around, from the actor's performances, directing and filming.

    [​IMG]


    As much as I like the inclusion of Peter Parker/Spider-Man, it's where I find the movie to be uneven in tone, slows the down the pacing of the film as it feels like it was kind of shoe horned into the movie, as the Sony/Marvel deal for Spider-Man closed well into production of Civil War. It's really the only knock on the film and why I rank it as my third favorite MCU film.

    [​IMG]

    However, I really can't argue against the addition of "Hot Aunt May.
    [​IMG]

    The film does better when it doesn't really showcase humor, but fits it in subtly to break tension. Like this...
    [​IMG]

    Not only does it break tension, it develops the relationship of the characters as well as makes them more identifiable/relatable; friends/bros being bros.

    And after seeing Black Panther, we understand T'Challa's comments about how entertaining this match up would be.
    [​IMG]


    Anyway, all the threads of the film are leading to the spectacle known as the airport scene. Which is done amazingly well, as it was riveting, thrilling and action packed.

    Underoos!
    [​IMG]

    When that scene was featured in the trailer, fans went nuts. Especially seeing Spidey's eyes squint. It's so Steve Ditko!

    The airport provided the comic book equivalent of a "splash page" with this shot. Thank you, Russos!
    [​IMG]


    Of course, we get more badass Black Panther. I'm sure the way Black Panther was featured in Civil War helped the anticipation for the solo film.
    [​IMG]

    Of course, in the middle of all this spectacular spectacle is the scene stealer that was the reveal of Giant Man.

    [​IMG]


    However, the scene ends with a very distraught Tony and a nearly dead Rhodey. (If Rhodey died, I could imagine all the "Rhode Kill" memes)
    [​IMG]

    And after this amazing airport action packed scene, the film still had an emotional climax to come and a couple of other twists to reveal; yet providing another layer to the film. The first reveal near the end of the movie was that Zemo had put bullets into the heads of the frozen super soldiers. It was revealed his machinations were to destroy the Avengers within. Which leads to the second twist and emotional build and tension between Tony and Steve, and that's the videotaped mission of December 16, 1991 (and a callback to the opening of the film as well as the emotional baggage of regret Tony used in his therapeutic holographic presentation at MIT earlier in the film). It's hear where Tony learns the truth about his parents death as he sees footage of Bucky killing his parents (who survived the car crash) with his bare hands. And then shaken and upset by the video he just witnessed, Tony asks Steve, "Did you know?" And Steve honestly answered, "yes." My wife gasped for air at that moment, as you can see the anguish on Tony's face and the lament on Steve's. And next we get this...

    [​IMG]



    After that reveal, the film's scope becomes much smaller and personal for the two titular characters; for Tony, it's revenge; for Steve, it's protecting his best friend (who was mind controlled in the death Tony's parents). And as such, there's so much raw emotion between the three and it could be felt by the audience. At this point, it's hard to be on Team Cap.

    [​IMG]


    But being a Captain America film, it reminds you that Steve was being loyal to his friend and would die for him (as he would in The Winter Soldier) as there's a great call be to the original film. I can't express enough on how much detail and continuity the Russos pay to the films of the MCU.

    [​IMG]



    Civil War gave Black Panther character growth, as T'Challa goes from a single minded vengeful character to one with perspective and wisdom. It also setup the solo Black Panther beautifully with it's end credits scene. It's one of the many elements that the film successfully delivered.

    Since Captain America: The First Avengers it was about Steve and Bucky "until the end of the line." (There was a line about a girl name Dottie or something like that, which many feel was the character in the TV show Agent Carter) Their bromance is stronger than any other relationship in the MCU, and it one of the endearing characteristics of Steve Rogers, as it shows him in a light of loyalty and nobility. Having Bucky alive is more important than anything in the world to Steve. We all would like to have a friend like Steve.

    [​IMG]


    Captain America: Civil War (aka (in my book) Avengers Disassembled) in not bloated with water inflated parts but rather a dense film with many layers to peel away; in other words, the film has alot of depth to it. The film does quite a remarkable job in balancing all the characters, subplots and action sequences with story telling. And as such, the reason why I say the Russo Brothers have made the best action blockbuster in the last ten years or more. Seriously, The Winter Soldier and Civil War could match up and win pretty much every action film it would be put up against from the last ten years or so. The Russos do an exquisite job in using the action pieces to help develop the characters and story. Additionally, they made the superheroes feel grounded as they're presented in the real world; making the phrase "grounded in reality" not a four letter word.

    Captain America: Civil War solidified Steve Rogers as the face of the MCU for many Marvel fans and unites the MCU fans in anticipation of his return in Infinity War. Seriously, get that man a shield!
     
  5. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Chosen One star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    @Sith_Sensei__Prime - I hope you produce a blog or something with these excellent in depth reviews of the MCU films. The histories you're compling are fascinating. I agree with just about everything you said, except that I think some of the humor worked perfectly. Take Clint's grumbly, cocky, crank over Wanda's hesitation in the Avengers compound. "I retire for, what, like five minutes and it all goes to S*#%." and "You wanna mope you can go to high school. You wanna make amends you get off your a$$." Between that and Barton's mentor-like role to Wanda, this scene made me finally defrost a bit toward Scarlet Witch. Then, during the airplane fight, that knowing smirk about hitting 18 holes,
    and then... [face_bleh]
    [​IMG]
    Interestingly, Clint then misses...against T'Challa. This sets up Clint's use of the bow as a staff-like weapon, which is nice foreshadowing for...
    **Ronin**
    Sticking with the humor, I love Rhodey's one liners during the airport fight too. Here's a serious combat hardened (138 missions) Lt. Colonel getting his mind blown over Ant-Man becoming giant man during that splash-page brawl. War Machine's incredulous response sets up the unfortunate mistake that nearly takes our favorite heavy armament adorned Iron Man out. :( (So glad that did not happen).

    As I've mentioned in multiple revisits, it took me awhile to completely grok the overall story and motivations of certain characters in this film. I like that. Watching this now, I have confidence that the Russos and screenwriters Markus and McFeeley will be able to juggle the massive cast of Infinity War and Avengers 4 with ease. Not only will they give each character at least one moment to shine, but they will build and possibly destroy relationships and our hearts in the process. (Okay, that last part of that sentence was pure drama, but it's the best I can do given the stupidity that real life threw at me today).

    I like your Avengers Disassembled subtitle too. Looking forward to your review of Doctor Strange...
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  6. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    The question is, can/should there be an "I can do this all day" Cap line in Infinity War or Avengers 4 or did the bit reach it's emotional apex with the callback versus Iron Man?

    It's an amazing callback but I think doing it again would take away some emotional resonance. But I wouldn't mind all THAT much.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  7. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

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    Feb 27, 2013
    Does he not know IW isn’t Cap 4?
     
  8. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Chosen One star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    Personally, I say thee nay. You nailed it as to why that line had it's emotional apex in Civil War. That said, I am sure I wouldn't mind it either, it's Cap, after all.
     
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  9. Bilbo Fett

    Bilbo Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Another Bosslogic creation, this time spitballing a potential A4 title.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Speaking of humor, and once again a reminder that Spider-Man is a holy terror, the way that Peter so effortlessly handled Bucky and Falcon tho!

    "Hey, Buddy! I think you lost this!" :eek:[face_laugh]

    And of course...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The look of shock on Bucky's face...priceless!
     
  11. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Also, why didn’t they use the same cradle tech from AoU used to fix Barton to help Rhodey?
     
  12. PCCViking

    PCCViking 2 Truths & a Lie Host./16x WW Win/15xHMan Win. star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

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    Jun 12, 2014
    I just find it funny that Civil War had a bug problem: Spider-Man, the Black Widow, and Ant-Man. [face_laugh]
     
  13. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Jedi Commish star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 13, 2005
    I think I figured out why I like @Sith_Sensei__Prime 's reviews/recaps/analysis so much: it is so in-depth and well done, I don't need to go back and rewatch any of the films. Maybe his recap of Homecoming will be so engulfing, I won't need to watch it even a single time.
     
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  14. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 2, 2007
    IIRC, Ultron killed that doctor before taking the cradle away. And it’s possible that Vision’s “birth” damaged it.
     
  15. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    helen cho? she lives. but i agree with you on the cradle.
     
  16. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red 18X Hangman Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 25, 2004
    Just a wild guess, but Barton's injuries were just burns to his skin, right? That's probably easy to fix. Also, Vision's body was built from scratch when there wasn't anybody inhabiting it...whereas with Rhodey I think they'd have to build a couple new vertebrae and then figure out how to stick them into him.
     
  17. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

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    May 22, 2000
    Thanks so much @Master_Lok and @DarthIntegral as it's always nice to hear positive feedback. It really makes my day. :D

    As for the humor in Civil War, I do appreciate it but when I take a step back and look at the gritty tone the Russo established for The Winter Soldier and how Civil War started out, the bright and fun parts with Spider-Man and Ant-Man are a really stark contrast to rest the of the film. Especially the emotional build up on Tony watching the videotaped footage of watching his parents being murdered. That's some really dark and twisted stuff right there.

    I didn't mind the Hawkeye comic relief at all. But, I thought it was kind of a flub that they forgot to mention that Clint has a newborn, so instead of mentioning how became bored with golf, I thought it would have better if Clint mentioned getting into fist-a-cuffs with his friends was better than changing dirty diapers. I mean, poor Laura having to take care of a newborn all by herself. :p

    And as usual, I ran long and so cutout certain parts like Wanda filling the "Spider-Man-esque" role in the film that Peter Parker played in the comic book story, whereby Wanda sided with Tony at first because of guilt over Lagos, but it was a cost of her personal freedom as she very quickly discovered when Vision did not allow her to leave the compound (which Steve mentioned to Tony right after Bucky was captured in Vienna). And of course, after the airport scene we see Wanda imprisoned on the Raft in a horrible manner, which Tony found upsetting. FYI, for non-comic book readers, Spider-Man sided with Tony's and revealed himself to the entire world (which flipped out James Jonah Jameson. His reaction was priceless) under the Registration Act (where super heroes would have not secret identities and be under supervision).

    [​IMG]


    But the consequences of Spidey siding with Tony had dire consequences. Wanda in a small way played that part in Civil War.

    [​IMG]


    Civil War is a brilliant and very difficult film to pull off, so you won't get any argument from me if it's held as the best MCU film. It's the inconsistent tone takes the film down a very slight notch, putting it below The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.1 where the tones in those films are well established and consistent all the way through.

    And @Master_Lok don't look too forward to my review of Doctor Strange as I have some issues with the film, particularly with some of the creative choices.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
  18. obi_kenobi_24

    obi_kenobi_24 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2003
    [​IMG]

    After dealing with all of killians extremis goons and this Melee.....Tony you better have some Energy Shield Tech
     
  19. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    You make valid comments in regard to the humor, but I enjoyed how the humor broke up that tension and made the splash page airport fight a true comic book brawl.

    Re: Hawkeye. I dislike the domestic bliss that Whedon set up for Clint (sure Jeremy was a bit more gung ho as he was a relatively new father in real life when AoU was shot), but I roll with it because I understand that if he's going to go all Ronin on us, you have to take away the domestic bliss. So while I may understand it, meh.

    As a long time Doctor Strange fan, I have my quibbles with the movie too, but since I quite dig the Benedicts as Stephen and Wong so darn much, enjoyed Chiewtel's Mordo and loved the 'are you experienced' multi-dimensional trippy bits, I get past some of the story choices and characterizations. I like Mads Mikkelsen but felt he got the short end of the mystic stick here. For me, Derrickson's previous film, Deliver Us From Evil, had a more interesting dynamic about the layman being sucked into a supernatural world - but there you go.

    Ahem right, Civil War... one other bit of humor I loved is the ongoing loathe/like relationship between Sam and Bucky (two quick moments that just sell how much fun these two are). In particular, Bucky's "You couldn't have done that earlier?", and Sam's retort of "I hate you" still crack me up. Bonus points for Spider-Man being show the window by Red Wing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
  20. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Chosen One star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    Another on target Hawkeye digital manip by Boss Logic (this design reminds me of Maverick's turn as Agent Zero in the comics).
     
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  21. Bilbo Fett

    Bilbo Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 19, 2017
  22. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

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    Feb 27, 2013
    Goddam Wanda blocking my Captain Asserica shot.
     
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  23. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

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    May 22, 2000
    Did you catch the Hulk's barebutt in Ragnarok?
     
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  24. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Chosen One star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    @Diggy =D=[face_laugh]
    I am trying to forget that myself.
     
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  25. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    LOL!

    I could see that artwork above being free swag at the Marvel both at this year's San Diego Comic-Con as they did in past years.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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