Yuuzhan Vong Naval Strength

During the New Republic Fleet High Command meeting on Hero's Trial (Beginning on page 92) Ayddar Nylykerka says: "Based on avalible data, we are now estimating Yuuzhan Vongnaval strength at one thousand capital ships, deployed in task forces and floatillas, comprising anywhere from twenty-five to seventy-five vessels."

This one thousand capital ships have bothered me alot. Its too few in my opinion. Compare this with the 25,000 ImpStars the Empire had. Well, they would have produced more at Belkadan, Sernpindal (Up till it was destroyed) and Ylesia but that would only cover their losses. The New Republic was not as well armed as the Empire but still it should have been more powerfull than the Vong when they first arrived.

 

Most of the Empire's military was never involved in the war with the rebels, as we discovered in Hand of Thrawn.

The YV didn't have huge amounts territory to maintain by that point in the NJO, but it was made pretty clear later in the series that they couldn't keep up with their massed offensives while also having to keep the worlds in invasion path in line. Notice that the map of their invasion path went basically unchanged from SbS onwards.

Look in the New Republic capital ships thread, this kind of thing gets discussed pretty often there.

 

IIRC, up to "Rebirth" Yuuzhan Vong-vessels were entering the galaxy. So the ships mentioned in Hero´s Trial belonged only to the first or second wave.

Keep also in mind, that the data of the NRDF might have been imcomplete.

 

Yuuzhan Vong didn't have many planets they had to defend at the beginning of the invasion. Still, the New Republic could have brought more ships than the YV if the fleet wasn't paralised by the Senate.

I wonder how long it takes to grow a ship. I know it is shorter than a NR ship.

 

Well, the NRDF High Command had bad info on Yuuzhan Vong fleet strength. I would not be surprised if that info came from a Yuuzhan Vong spy or a member of the Peace Brigade.

It is obvious that the Yuuzhan Vong many thousands of warships available to them. The New Republic fleet may of had greater numbers, but they had the burden of being required to spread the fleet to defend worlds. The Yuuzhan Vong had alot less territory to defend.

--Adm. Nick

 

I agree with AdmiralNick.

 

I can't understand why NRDF didn't make a major counteroffensive after the Battle of Ithor. From a purely military point of view NRDF won the battle. YV lost their fleet there. If they had staged a major offensive at that point, they could have hit Belkadan and/or Sernpindal. Even more, YV weren't exactly fully fortified at the Tingel Arm, and it wouldn't been hard to kick them outta there.

I don't think they got intelligence from spies. They would have sent reconnasiance ships to check planets out. Still I don't think Ayddar Nylykerka could be fooled that easily.

 

That information is wrong. It is only an estimate on the Vong ships that had entered the galaxy at that point, many more continued to arrive.

 

The NRDF was controlled by idiot politicians like Borsk Fey'lya and his cronies, which is why there was not major offensive. There is also the fact that the Tingel Arm and its planets are not even part of the New Republic, and since they're led by a bunch of pinko-commies, they probably didn't want to violently retake worlds that weren't theirs to begin with.

The bottom line is that the New Republic is led by morons.

Also remember that in Hero's Trial, the only Yuuzhan Vong force in the galaxy is the fleet that was under the command of Supreme Commander Shai (1000 warships). By Jedi Eclipse, another fleet under Supreme Commander Choka, which was likely much larger, had entered the Galaxy and reinforced the previous. More Vong fleets kept arriving in the Galaxy all the way until Destiny's Way, in which the final arriving ships are those under Supreme Commander Karsh.

 

There were tens of thousands of Yuuzhan Vong warships in their fleets.

 

Had Bel Iblis, Wedge, and Admiral Kre'fey been allowed to conduct the war the way they wanted to, things would of been alot different. Recall that Leia tried to get the NR to mobilize its fleets and send them to the Outer Rim right after Sernpidial and Helska. Had the might of the NR been waiting at "Vector Prime", the entry point for incoming Vong fleets, they could of taken the war to the Vong right from the start.

Fey'lya, despite his obviously brave last stand, made more stupid mistakes than any other single person in the entire war. He scattered the fleets, tied them up at pointless planets, and interfered with the top fleet commanders. Heck, according to Destiny's Way, he even turned down a request from Ackbar at the begining of the war to return to duty and assume the role of Supreme Commander for the duration of the conflict.

The NRDF did the best it could in the face of such idiots.

--Adm. Nick

 

Fely'lya is a face-saving moron who was more concerned with his position than anything else. I dare say, the Yuuzhan Vong could have been given a good kick back off the galaxy if the NRDF conducted the war the way it should have been done.

That's why I termed the early phase of the war the "phoney war", similar to the early phase of WWII. In the end, Neville Chamberlain was given the boot and Winston Churchil took command.

Then again, it did unite the galaxy and brought the Yuuzhan Vong home... so the will of the Force?

 

Fey'lya also ordered many elements of the 5th and the 3rd Fleets to Bothawui and kept them there. When Duro was invaded, those were cut from Coruscant and could not possibly aid Coruscant when Tsavong Lah invaded Coruscant.

I wonder why YV didn't attempt to take Mon Calamari and the Coporate Sector at the beginnning of the war. Mon Cal was surely in the Top 5 shipyards and it was close to the Tingel. Corporate Sector, was heavily industrialised and provided many raw materials and supplies for the NRDF. NRDF must have fortified more ships there after Mon Cal became the capital, so that Mon Cal's flank could be protected.

By the way, who cares the will of the force? Yuuzhan Vong came to the Galaxy as fanatical murderers and they should have been treated as such. (Meaning Alpha Red)

 

The Corporate Sector wasn't a threat to the Yuuzhan Vong. It's as simple as that. They might have tried to knock them out during their little kamikaze offensive at the end of the war (attacking the Chiss, Imperials, Yevethans, and unkown others simultaneously), but up until such an order, the Corpies were just too backwater and insignificant to post much of a threat.

 

The Corporate Sector was definitely under threat of invasion though, and they probably knew that if the New Republic/Galactic Alliance fell completely, the rest of the galaxy would eventually go with it.

 

Still, Corporate Sector was a major production center for the NRDF. It was very heavily industrialised. And also, it was at the rear of the Yuuzhan Vong territory and should the NRDF positioned a good commander there and a mid-sized fleet, they could have hurt the Vong very badly.

I still can't understand why YV made those kamikaze attacks, especially to the Empire. Empire may be dying but it still was very powerful and diciplined. (By the way, what is that Imperial SSD mentioned in Destiny's Way. The one on which Leia met Pellaeon)

 

My guess would be that Mon Calamari was well defended to the point that the Vong did not want to risk such a large loss of ships before they took Coruscant.

--Adm. Nick

 

Mon Calamari was a shipyard that rivalled Gyndine and Rothana in size and infrastructure. The Calamarians, not exactly being the most outsider-friendly race, would have likely had a huge corporate starfleet guarding their world, meaning that any Vong offensive would have been more trouble than it would be worth.

 

I don't think that the Corporate Sector would be a major manufacturing center for the NRDF, as it is a sovereign nation. I don't doubt that they'd do business and whatnot, but I really don't think they'd be kicking out warships or anything of that nature.

 

During the New Republic Fleet High Command meeting on Hero's Trial (Beginning on page 92) Ayddar Nylykerka says: "Based on avalible data, we are now estimating Yuuzhan Vongnaval strength at one thousand capital ships, deployed in task forces and floatillas, comprising anywhere from twenty-five to seventy-five vessels."

Well, as the others said, the NR cannot see the fleet that is still hiding outside the galaxy.

The NR Fleet can only be described as pathetically weak, even with a maximalist estimate.

I don't think they got intelligence from spies. They would have sent reconnasiance ships to check planets out. Still I don't think Ayddar Nylykerka could be fooled that easily.

One can only discriminate between accurate sources and inaccurate ones when you have some accurate sources to begin with!

By the way, who cares the will of the force? Yuuzhan Vong came to the Galaxy as fanatical murderers and they should have been treated as such. (Meaning Alpha Red)

Precisely, but then, the Jedi fought the war pretty wimpily all around. Constantly defensive, squeaking like little babies when Kyp Durron decided to get one of their worldships about getting too close to the Dark Side.

They have a cool thing called Centerpoint, and some idiot Jacen wanted to use it as a shield, and he screwed it up so badly that he failed to get all of the Vong, but got some of the Hapans there to help them. Don't those people understand this is called "strategic bombing" or "deep interdiction"? Weapons of Mass Destruction have their place when fighting scum like Vong.

Honestly, those morons are more afraid of the Dark Side than the entire galaxy being wiped out, so which side of the Force you are on hardly matters anymore.

(By the way, what is that Imperial SSD mentioned in Destiny's Way. The one on which Leia met Pellaeon)

I heard that one was called Defiant. I fear that it was only the 8km version, though....

Nick

Fey'lya, despite his obviously brave last stand, made more stupid mistakes than any other single person in the entire war. He scattered the fleets, tied them up at pointless planets, and interfered with the top fleet commanders. Heck, according to Destiny's Way, he even turned down a request from Ackbar at the begining of the war to return to duty and assume the role of Supreme Commander for the duration of the conflict.

The NRDF did the best it could in the face of such idiots.

There was one thing they could have done. Declared a coup and martial law.

One is reminded of the deliberate covert work of the Emperor after his Death and before Dark Empire to further disorganize it. At least he got a Fleet to spare and a goal to wipe out the "weak". Borsk is just a moron. He should have been forcibly rescued, then thrown into a pile of agitated refugees so they can skin him.

 

Corporate Sector was probably getting huge amaunts of contract from the NRDF. Not only for vehicles or weapons but they also supplied many raw materials. Smashing Corporate sector would have damaged NRDF shipbuilding process.

Mon Calamari had a very powerful home fleet but if YV wanted to take the planet, it wouldn't have stopped them. The casulaties would have been too high but after the loss of Fondor, it could have been deadly for the NR. NRDF would only be left with Kuat, Corellia and Talaan as major shipyards.

 

Definat was an Imperial-class Star Destroyer captained by a woman named Essenton in Remnant. Somewhat glaringly, we've no idea what the SSD was called or what became of her. Also, we've no idea exactly how many such vessels the Empire still has. The NEGtV&V implies that there are a handful of them, but doesn't specify any exact numbers. My ballpark was between three and five SSD-scale vessels (including such things as the new Preators and Allegiances).

EDIT:

Probably more, if we're counting Allegiances--they're not much bigger than an ImpStar. The three to five figure should probably just reflect SSD- and Preator-sized vessels.

 

There was one thing they could have done. Declared a coup and martial law.

Well, they could have done that but it would have created a lot of problems. When someone does a military coup and not manage to do it perfectly you get a civil war. Say Sovv decided to capture all of Senate and the Advisory council as well as the Chief of State. If Fey'lya or any of his buddies of the Advisory council escaped, they could have started a civil war. (I know a lot about coups, it happened twice in my country fortunately we didn't get any civil wars.)

Precisely, but then, the Jedi fought the war pretty wimpily all around. Constantly defensive, squeaking like little babies when Kyp Durron decided to get one of their worldships about getting too close to the Dark Side.

They have a cool thing called Centerpoint, and some idiot Jacen wanted to use it as a shield, and he screwed it up so badly that he failed to get all of the Vong, but got some of the Hapans there to help them. Don't those people understand this is called "strategic bombing" or "deep interdiction"? Weapons of Mass Destruction have their place when fighting scum like Vong.

Honestly, those morons are more afraid of the Dark Side than the entire galaxy being wiped out, so which side of the Force you are on hardly matters anymore.

I agree with this. During the entire YV Crisis, jedi were really idiots. Jacen (whom, in my opinion, the worst NJO character) caused Centerpoint to wipe out the Hapan Fleet and Luke opposed to Alpha Red and caused it to be destroyed. During the entire YV Crisis there were only 2 jedi that earned that title: Kyp Durron and Jaina Solo. Even Corran had gotten that Dark Side infection from Jacen and Luke.

The Empire had about 200 ImpStars left at during the Caamas Crisis. They would have built more since then but I doubt the Empire would spend their few resources on expensive SSD's.

 

To DEFEND Borsk, he had to keep hundreds of senators in line, who were all screaming for protection.

Borsk also had to work with a constitution, that gave the head of state little real power and was very ineffective by design (as stated in BFC) to prevent the rise of another Palpatine, and a very decentralized structure of the republic as a whole (see HoT).

The Agents of Chaos-Duology shows Borsk doing the right thing by giving the military the freedom to act, but unfortunately with the Fondor-debacle this hits him in the face. As a result the control over how the war is lead is done by the senate, where a certain senator from Kuat was pulling the strings in the favour of the YV.

It was also under Borsks leadership, where the shipbuilding we see bearing fruits in Destiny´s Way started (what also suggests, that the forces of the NRDF at the beginning of the war were not to great to begin with).

As a last thing: Why does nobody call Leia and her government morons, when the empire starts its Orinda-campaign? Why is the handful of worlds (worlds, not sectors) Pellaeon captures conquered back? Why doesn´t the republic finish the empire once and for all after Shadowhand or Darksaber? But no, the only incompetent president of the NR is, was and will be forever Borsk.

 

The Imps have a lot of glaring problems without having to worry about the costs of building new Super Star Destroyers... According to Ruin, their economy was pretty much tanked out in the interwar period. Given that by the time of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion we only see two Star Destroyers under construction at Yaga Minor, I'd say that the trend didn't exactly fix itself in the few years between Ruin and Remnant.

And even though The Unifying Force lists the Imperials as some of the 'big winners' of the Great Invasion, I think that having your capitol badly beat up and all of the major cities on your economic hub (Muunilist, A.K.A. "Money Land") burned from orbit would be a rather daunting setback. There there're the costs that expanding a few sectors would entail (The Unifying Force implies that the Empire wound up getting some extra territory out of the war)...

Given that the Imperials did fine during the war without any heavy reliance on superships, I think it'll be a few decades before we see any new development on such things. If absolutely nothing else, they probably can't afford it.

EDIT:

That's not at all a bad post, FTeik...