Gaming Zelda Fans Come Hither...

[image=http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/379/64638893b8e88540dbhl8.jpg]

 

Actually I did know the "close your DS" trick, but I played Trace Memory

Also the whole "find Meryl's code on the box" in Metal Gear Solid.

 

Awesome

 

I just beat PH yesterday, and I liked it very much. I like how the puzzles and scenarios were made and mixed in. The only thing I didn't like is sea travel. I know it's part of the story, but for some reason it just bugs me. Stylus play is very good. I didn't think it would be that good. The ending reminded me of Link's Awakening and the music was right on. Now, it's just a matter of time till Link's Crossbow Training and then the next full length Zelda game.

I also went to the Video Games Live concert at the Nokia Theater at L.A. Live last night, and when they played the music from Twilight Princess, it was off the hook! Koji Kondo did a video intro because he couldn't be there, but it was magic!

 

Yeah, the ending was your typical Zelda ending -- very anticlimactic for all the hard work you just did. But some would argue that PH was too easy.

And the end definitely reminded me of Link's Awakening. When I saw that the old man was actually a whale, I thought he was the wind fish. Haha!

 

That was well done.

 

That is awesome, Quest.

 

That video was pure win.

 

The text for the Sages trophy in Super Smash Bros Brawl says that the Sages were the ones who made the Master Sword. Is this new, or was it in another game and I've forgotten?

 

It's mostly the original origin-story from Ocarina of Time; that the Seven Sages forged the Master Sword of Evil's Bane prior to the Imprisoning War, et cetera. Surprisingly very little else on its forging is given in the later Zelda games, though I haven't acquired the Sages Trophy yet in SSBB.

The whole trophy-system adds a bit more welcome strategy to the Subspace Emissary mode, to my delight. Any other specifics mentioned about the sword when you get that one?

 

Ah. I thought it was in OoT, but I didn't quite remember. Don't have the Master Sword trophy yet...

 

Could be, and my dream Zelda game yet-to-be-released would tell this particular story, showing Southern Hyrule's decimation, the governmental relocation to the North Castle, et al.

Similarly, it's clear that the Kakriko Village seen in A Link to the Past is, in fact, "New Kakariko," with "Old Kakariko" in the east have fallen into enormous decay (as seen in Twilight Princess) and abandoned between the events of TP and Zelda III, with the new village established in the west during the interrim.

Interestingly, the precedent for this already exists in the Zelda canon, with Old Kasuto and New Kasuto in The Adventure of Link -- the former being abandoned after massive attacks by Ganon's minions, and the new town founded in a new location later on.

Old Kakariko existing in the shadow of Death Mountain as it grew more and more dangerous provides a very easy explanation within the Zelda series' backstory for the exodus, with the disappearance of the Gorons by the time period of the NES games also possibly tying into these same events.

Good catch, as this is something I've also noted to folks in the past, too. Makes you wonder if some of those Zelda II towns were already founded in northern Hyrule during the time period of ALttP? You can almost see right where the town of Saria would lie, but not quite.

Yup. And by that point in time, as you note, the only visible land route to the Old Kingdom south of Death Mountain is right through Death Mountain itself.

Of course, if the Royal Family had to make the trip northwards during the southern kingdom's downfall, by sea would've been the best route, assuming we go by the LoZ/AoL geographical maps, which have the south open to the ocean (retconned with Zelda III onward, but it's probable the coastline still exists even as far back as Ocarina).

 

I would have twisted the map the other way and have kakariko in alttp in the same place as it was on ocarina. the lost woods would be the hyrule castle area and the reason why it contains the master sword. So basically very zoomed in. Lake Hylia seems variable in position as it moves in the minish cap and moves again in four swords adventure. The desert is not in the same location but just a portion of the old hyrule field.


I also didn't think much of twisting is so far, if you look at it north does become north east which may contradict some of the gameplay dialogue (ocarina of time is considered correct because it has a compass drawn on it).If we also look at the map from twilight princess, lake hylia appears almost exactly west of death mountain which would require a 90 degree turn anticlockwise of the map.

I also say that four swords adventure takes place during the draining of teh great sea, which is why hyrule is an island. I believe the draining happens due to the works of the koroks planting trees which remove both the water and the salt minerals (we can see the trees can grow there as teh forest haven and the forbidden woods were able to grow out of the water. This means that the high area will gradually expand as korok plants grow. The new hyrule was built opun the area growing from death mountain. Hyrule field was low land so it remained underwater but the cliffs around hyrule field were high enough for water to be removed. This isolates hyrule field, and eventually the water is drained from it (notice in teh four swords adventure map teh desert contains one of teh largest sources of water (second to lake hylia and the sea), however with the ground saturated with salt no normal plants can grow. Lets also remember teh similarities between four swords adventure and alttp map.

The minish cap would be a zoomed in map of ocarina of time; mount crenel being the mountain around gerudo valley.

The adventure of link takes places on the east hand side of the mountain range that leads up to snowpeak from death mountain.

twilight princess is basically the same map from ocarina of time, with a few minor changes.

Wind waker only really has one reference point that is spectacle rock. The positions of the two portals to hyrule are miles apart on the surafce but lead to positions remarkably close to each other under water.

Four swords would just be an incredibly zoomed in, badly drawn map on the four swords adventure map which is in the same era.

I may have to concede that one, there is no boss from the other dungeons that is protecting ganon in level 9 however the enemies remain similar, and also when looking it up the gifts of nature do not appear to be in the possession of onox.

you have to be in order for me to take back my own forwarded hypothesis.

 

It's interesting to note that when you look at the Nintendo Power/NES Game Atlas versions of The Adventure of Link map, the comic book map got seemingly got the scale of the southern kingdom "wrong," but otherwise, the general notion is still correct. On the other hand, the scope of the southern kingdom as seen from Ocarina of Time onward better fits the comic map's notion of an expanded region there, so maybe the a bit of retconning is called for (and perhaps has already taken place).

I could certainly live with either version, myself, and in fact the comics map works much better in this context, particularly if you're a fan of the more recent games in the series. Southern Hyrule seems much more gigantic from Ocarina onward than the seemingly tiny, downscaled region we see in Zelda II.

Personally -- in light of OoT, TWW, and TP -- I'd now probably go for the comics map over the in-game one, as even the Nintendo designers themselves have retconned/changed things after the fact to better fit their current conceptions of the Zelda universe since the early days.

(Oh, and yup...the "Link's Second Quest" thing is a definite screwup on the part of the Valiant artist. )

And note the "Calatia" reference on the map...this is where the NES Link hails from, a country outside of Hyrule itself.

It's quite interesting that a story-concept from an early source like the Legend of Zelda comics would show up years later in a "modern" game of the series. I've always held the Calatia backstory to be semi-canonical, and this was unexpectedly validated by Twilight Princess's notion of other Links being born outside the kingdom, the same as the comics.

 

Although, having played through Twilight Princess again recently, there were several specific references in the dialogue to Ordona Province being outside the borders and ruling jurisdiction of the kingdom proper, though it was certainly still quite influential in its affairs.

Also, if you compare the map of The Wind Waker to the map of the original The Legend of Zelda, the two maps line up eerily well in several places -- from "Spectacle Island" occupying virtually its exact same location in the NES game, all the way to Outset Island being almost in exactly the same spot as the first starting-screen of the 1987 story. The Great Deku Tree/Korok island likewise lines up with the Kokiri Forest from Ocarina of Time, IIRC.

(Though the "scale"-issue comes up, as you mention, if Dragon Roost Island is supposed to be Death Mountain; same thing with the volcano-island.)

Yeah, I could still certainly get behind Northern Hyrule being "expanded" in some retconnic fashion, given that the south has already been subjected to this same treatment, and keeping the scale and scope implied by The Adventure of Link intact.


EDIT:

Yup, the Zelda III Link would certainly have to park the porpoise at SOME point later on, given that it's established in the games that all the Links are blood-relations and descendants of one another. Or, if the Oracle games are set not long after ALttP and Link's Awakening, he ultimately still ends up in Calatia some other way, with the same result.

 

I work on an entirely in-universe principle, Aonuma and Miyamoto may say things and say something completely different in couple of years time, and they may miss out details about the series in their decision to present a theory.

Korok's tree planting is a null hypothesis, if they did show a game where the raining occurs in some other way I'd be more than pleased with my accuracy, I way I see it the korok's are going to plant trees which is intended to create one land mass over hyrule anyway, and unless something intervenes with this hyrule is going to drain anyway.

In japan the light world version of death mountain is known as hebura (hence hebra's hill and tower of hera) I'm not sure what crenel is called in japan. They always struck me as different mountains, crenel at a different name seems a bit taller as has no real comparable similarities between any version of death mountain. I always took the veil spring and falls to be death mountain as it was teh home of biggoron and at the top was surrounded by a circle of clouds and being east of hyrule castle and the hyrule fields, but lining up the map it doesn't seem to work now that i've tried.

You are, the alttp/loz/fsa map goes outside the oot/tp map most of it will be in the top right hand corner, teh version of teh alttp map i'm using is vastly miniturised to teh otehr hypothesis.

alttp Hyrule castle woudl be about where the graveyard is and teh desert of doubt roughly overlaps hyrule field/kokiri forest so its liek the ocarina of time map extended eastwards.

The tower of the gods is not present in any of the hyrule games, apart from possibly fsa where it would be the tower of the winds, but I think the tower of the winds was a little too high what with reaching the heavens and all.
There is no evidence that the deku tree and korok are in the same position as kokiri forest, let me also point out that I am of the stalwart, post-rational single timelinist type so you'll have to accept that I see the deku tree and kokiri having to move away from the ordon faron area anyway before twilight princess.

As well as the distance problem there is also the problem of the vast number of mountains in between of these features which were not present before, but then again the mountains are not accurat