Phx Joss Whedon Rules! (ie The Buffy and Angel Thread)

Animal as any ethnicity other than Muppet doesn't make sense.

Yeah, "Muppet" is definitely what he marks on his census form.

 

I'm sorry I started this thing with Animal.

Back to Angel, I missed the end, what did Angel decide? At first it looked like he said to heck with the world. How did it end?

 

fred's dead....

and hot evil fred is my new buddy icon for AOL IM

 

Animal as any ethnicity other than Muppet doesn't make sense.

I disagree. Who says Muppet is an ethnicity? I am a human, a mammal, how ever you want to group me, and then I have my "ethnic" background; Italian, English, German, Welsh, etc.

Animal is a Muppet and apparently part Mexican. It makes sense. The Muppets/Sesame Street/Fraggle Rock, etc. aren't they all about diversity and being different? ;p

So don't be sorry Chewie! I started this thread and I say Yay! for the Muppet talk! Muppet talk is always good!
AND ON THAT NOTE:

It's time to play the music
It's time to light the lights
t's time to meet the Muppets on the Muppet Show tonight.

It's time to put on makeup
It's time to dress up right
It's time to raise the curtain on the Muppet Show tonight.

Why do we always come here
I guess we'll never know
It's like a kind of torture
To have to watch the show

And now let's get things started
Why don't you get things started
It's time to get things started
On the most sensational inspirational celebrational Muppetational
This is what we call the Muppet Show!

 

After Wesley falls for Gunn's joke about getting back together with Fred, Gunn uses the big brother line about killing Wes if he hurts Fred. I have to wonder if this might not be a bit of foreshadowing for next week's episode.

It is good to see that last season wasn't entirely forgotten with Angel had the memories of Connor wiped. Aparently Gunn and Fred still remember going out. And in "You're Welcome" we had mention of Wes and Lilah's relationship.

 

the last season wasn't wiped, it was simply any memory of connor... although you would think that wes overheard post-coma cordy mention this name and ask angel... umm.. who's connor?
the memory wipe is similar to the memory implant that worked as rationale for why buffy now had a sister...

how did it end..
Angel says to heck with it and goes to talk to the guardian about that spell, but spike contemplates the fact that this pit goes all the way through, and that means there is some bloke on the other side of the earth looking down at them. meanwhile fred appears to die and her body changes slightly into the body of the old one... blue haired, blue eyed and evil.

the promo for next week showed some fighting, gunn coming to grips with his share in bringing this about (signing for the customs release) and evil fred saying that they can't kill her because they don't want to harm fred's body.

 

Actually I thought the new Fred said...Wes can't kill her because "I look like her".

Wasn't paying attention entirely last night. Maybe I missed something but I thought Angel WAS going to choose to save Fred yet he never really had the chance to do anything because she died first. Is that right? Like I said, I wasn't really paying attention. Damn homework. ;p blah.

Dunno how I feel about this new plot. Kinda a bummer cause I liked the old Fred. Oh well, who knows what's really instore. Especially if the show doesn't get saved. Joss may have to rework things to incorporate "The End". Bah. Crappy network executives.

 

Actually I thought the new Fred said...Wes can't kill her because "I look like her".

i think you are right... my memory was a little fuzzy on that..

Wasn't paying attention entirely last night. Maybe I missed something but I thought Angel WAS going to choose to save Fred yet he never really had the chance to do anything because she died first. Is that right? Like I said, I wasn't really paying attention. Damn homework. ;p blah.

Angel was about to get the guardian to do the spell but then spike started talking and then fred died.


Dunno how I feel about this new plot. Kinda a bummer cause I liked the old Fred. Oh well, who knows what's really instore. Especially if the show doesn't get saved. Joss may have to rework things to incorporate "The End". Bah. Crappy network executives.
well every now and then they gotta do something to one of the characters.. last season it was cordy being taken over by jasmine.. i liked Fred's character a lot and perhaps they can save her.. after all, they've brought people back from the dead before, and this time the body's not even rotting.. what would be cool is if Fred's spirit is still inside Illyria and manages to re-assert control. besides, joss has to show that in the end, the astronaut (fred) wins over the caveman (illyria)

 

Yeah I'm not to jazzed about the whole astronaut vs caveman thing...Bored so I thought I'd think of some better match ups...
Why not:
ice skater vs werewolf
wolfram & hart lawyer vs giant preying mantis
pirate vs cheerleader
private investigator vs solider
1700s aristocrat vs senior partner
karaoke singer vs gypsy
fish monster vs the powers that be
zombie vs puppet
robot vs stalker
nazi vs troll
frat boy vs damsel in distress
dracula vs Aztec warrior
cow vs biker demon
the initiative vs cat
a god vs homecoming queen
the first vs science nerd
rogue demon hunter vs mummy
ghost vs master
the key vs Princess of Pylea
goddess of the lost vs principal
little red riding hood vs Necromancer
assasin cyborg vs mayor
busy little beaver vs hyena

 

I'm wondering if they are doing this kick butt Fred character just like Joss did to Willow.

 

not sure what exactly you mean by what joss did to willow? turning willow evil at the end of season 6? if so, the main difference is that evil willow was still willow, but given into vengeance and juiced up on magic. evil fred is not fred, but an ancient spirit in her body. still, both have the eye/hair color change...

this is closer to cordy being taken over by jasmine's spirit but without fred's spirit still being inside fred...

as for caveman vs astronaut -- it represents a major struggle in humanity -- the conflict between the instinctual, animal side of human nature and the rational, intellectual side of human nature. dracula vs cows doesn't quite compare.

even the Conduit has changed... no longer appearing as a morally-neutral cat (just a sign of dangerous power which can be tamed for good or evil), it takes on human form, symbolic of the complexity of human nature and morals...

side topic: did you know that Andy Hallet did an uncredited cameo in the Buffy episode "Hush"?

 

dracula vs cows doesn't quite compare

Says who? You don't know what a cow is thinking!?! ;p Unless you are Dr. Doolittle. lol

But FYI that "cow" reference was RE Princess Cordy. Not an actual cow. ;P

AND I was joking loyal henchman. So it's all good.

 

What I meant is creating a dominant, tough, kick butt character out of the perceived physically weakest character.

I'm not referring to the motivation or circumstances of the character just the creation of said character.

 

aah... i got it... turning the mice into lions, as it were...

 

join the debate:
Caveman vs Astronaut

 

Not sure what to think about last night's episode. I felt a bit cheated on two things, that "Super" Fred was not stopped by Angel and Spike, it just stopped, and I felt like something was missing. The end of the episode was also not exciting or gripping, it was just ended. Maybe the episodes following this one will take off from this one.

I did enjoy the more "ruthless" side of Wesley. Especially thinking from where he begun, I liked it!

 

I am inclined to disagree about the end. I'm very interested to see how having a "god" on the Angel side will change things.

And Spike's play on perspective with the JD bottles on the plane was great.

-D-

 

i didn't get to watch the episode until last night...

I felt a bit cheated on two things, that "Super" Fred was not stopped by Angel and Spike, it just stopped, and I felt like something was missing. The end of the episode was also not exciting or gripping, it was just ended. Maybe the episodes following this one will take off from this one.

it did seem to build to an anti-climax...a big fight, and then.. defeated by the ravages of time and not the heroes. a good twist... that keeps Illyria alive and confused, setting up the end as a new beginning.

with fred's parents appearing the past two episodes and the imagery of fred leaving home to go to LA.. i wonder if there's going to be some resolution involving Fred's parents... her dad: "This is what happens when you go to the big city -- play around with vampires and get turned into a blue-haired demon"

this episode, harmony seemed to break her typical role and be more complex.... putting her into an actual counseling role for wes.

btw, isn't Fred's hometown supposed to be in Texas? the one landscape shot we see at the end has a pretty steep green hill on it, which seems a bit not-Texas-like...
whoa... Fred from Texas. Lyndsey from Texas... hmmmm...

 

I thought the end of the fight with Illyria was anti-climactic, but it was anti-climax that worked well. Personally, I liked it. I was all set to dislike Illyria (though not her wardrobe), thinking they were just re-hashing the whole "character's body is taken over by an ancient demon of incredible power - the gang has to find a way to deal with the demon while dealing with their feelings for the posessed character". But that twist really brought me around and so far I'm really liking Illyria's character.

Does anyone know what kind of pistol Wes was using? I didn't get a very good view.

 

it looked like a Knoxbuster 250

 

why no angel this week? why why?

 

No angel and smallville till April 14th...YAY! Sorry, but I can actually have an extra day during the week to myself! I'm as happy as a little girl. ;p

Tonight I am finally going to see Big Fish. I have been so busy with work and school that I haven't seen a new movie since ROTK!