Full Series The Clone Wars- Episode 106: Downfall of a Droid Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

And being more docile than Jango Fett doesn't really mean all that docile.

Also meant to say in my earlier post that although I didn't like this episode as much, I do agree with others that the portrayal of Anakin here is good. While it's important to see him be one of the heroes of the Clone Wars as is alluded to later, it is also good to see facets of his character like we see here... where his attachment to someone (R2 in this case) makes him tend to lose his composure.

 

Quest - I'm pretty sure Tatooine was supposed to be first.

I realize Christophsis is where Ahsoka was introduced in the film, but it wouldn't be too hard to change around her introduction scene, because all they'd really have to do is change location.

It makes sense that they'd start off with something familiar like Jabba and Tatooine. Christophsis was probably originally just another "normal" 22 minute episode.

 

Clone Wars #1 - Slaves of the Republic

If we could have a CGI'd Britney as a Twilek dancer... I'd die a happy man.

...WHAT? Let me dream!

 

After watching this episode, I now figure that the reason in ANH that Artoo tried to hide from Ben at first wasn't that he didn't recognize the Jedi. It was probably more like this:

BEN: Come here, my little friend. Don't be afraid.
ARTOO: (thinking) Yeah, like I'm going to trust you, Mr. "It is easily replaced"!

I must admit I was surprised that Kenobi would be so callous. Yes, as a Jedi, he has been trained to resist attachments, but he surely knew that Ani and Artoo were close friends. Yet he still expresses no sympathy for Ani's loss at all. Add this to Kenobi's brushing aside concerns over Shmi and questioning Padme's integrity in AOTC and you can understand why Ani would turn away from the Order. Actually, you really don't see Kenobi start to understand such things until ROTS, when he expresses sympathy for Padme and her situation.

Getting back on topic, I was also surprised Ani accepted Ahsoka's opinion that Artoo wasn't on board so quickly. I was sure he was just playing along and would quickly take his fighter out and follow the ship. I'm very interested in seeing how this one plays out.

 

Haha, my exact thought.

 

Great analysis.

 

I think its important to make a distinction here.

The Jedi are encouraged to have compassion (which Anakin refers to as "unconditional love") for all living things. Thus they do have motivation to protect the galaxy.

But what they are discouraged from having is unique attachments to individuals.

So they must love the people of Naboo, for example. But they shouldn't go getting attached (and/or married) to a particular Naboo citizen.


But at the end of the day, it doesn't appear that any of them really live that mantra fully. They all show signs of attachment.

 

Ah, but did he? It's Threepio that's Ani's droid, Artoo is Padme's. If we are to follow the idea that the current TCW serial starts in the middle of the post-knighting montage from Vol 2 of the old cartoon, and the idea that Downfall of a Droid is one of the earliest episodes, then Padme has only just recently given Artoo to Anakin as a "graduation" gift. Prior to that their only contact would have been in TPM and briefly in AotC. My suspicion is that it's Anakin's attachment to Padme rather than Artoo that is manifesting itself here - he's lost his secret wife's favourite droid, his only link to her while he's jetting off around the Outer Rim. And Obi-Wan isn't supposed to know about that at all.

 

Great point. I never thought about that.

BTW, are Trandoshans immune to mind control? I expected that Anakin would interrogate that scavenger.

 

About the whole Anakin and R2 thing...

Good point Tordelback.


I would add in, however, that their time together in TPM shouldn't be underestimated. Little Anakin seemed to do a great deal of bonding during their week or so together. So while much of his attachment to R2 in CW probably does come from the Padme connection, some of it probably is a straight up Anakin/R2 connection.

 

I agree...Anakin does have special bond with R2...

 

The timelessness of Star Wars is one of its great strengths.

I dunno. Those who cite "timelessness" often, but not always, gloss over pop culture artifacts that predate when they were born. Disco Lapti Nek stands out to those born in the '70s or '80s, but the Benny Goodman riffing Modal Nodes or the clear Spaghetti Western influences of ANH don't.

Oh, and I can't remember off-hand, but the production order of the Christophsis element was, I think, episode 18. The rest of the movie was episodes 1, 3, and 4, I think.

ph

 

Pabawan, Can you please address the official LF line on the production order vs. the Cartoon Network airing order of this series? Why are the episodes airing out of the order in which they were produced, causing inconsistencies like the one you cited earlier regarding the beginning of 'Downfall of a Droid' and how Grievous was last seen losing the war prior to this episode? Is the airing order a CN decision or a LF decision? Is it Lucas' or his company's intention that the show be aired in production order or in the order that we are currently seeing them represented on CN? Finally, since the production order/run order are clearly different, which order will we see presented in the eventual dvd of season 1 of the show?

Thanks!

 

Hey DW, I don't know what ultimately determines the order, but it sounds like there's enough interest to possibly see if there's a story there for the site. I suspect, though, there's no clear-cut answer: on one hand, little inconsistencies that crop up in the broadcast order exposes certain intentions in the production order; but on the other hand, the production order clearly can't be taken at face value since chapters within multi-part arcs were not always produced in immediate succession!

But purely as a behind-the-scenes-type production angle, there may be an interesting story on why this series in particular is produced in the order that it is.

ph

 

Yeah, I'd love to get some official confirmation on this.

And if the production schedule was (a) affected by the theatrical release (I mean beyond the combining of the Tatooine and Christophsis plotlines), and/or (b) affected by the negative critical reviews.

 

If you think those movies don't look like a product of the 70s and 80s, just check out everyone's hair.

 

Loved this episode! So much stuff in it.

Trandoshan Droid Trader, IG-86's, Goldie, Another Great Space battle, Clones going for another spacewalk....all great stuff.

Even better was the inclusion of a couple philisophical Star Wars points I always love to discuss.

1. Droid Sentience: It's again made clear that Droids have personalities, that R2 is special no matter what Obi-Wan thinks of the situation. Droids are not all mindless machines, if any are, and I think that point has been re-enforced by this series.

2. Jedi Attachment Rules: Obi-Wan's general callousness comes shining through again, showing his and the Jedi's devide with Anakin in general. Obi-Wan is far from the worst Jedi offender in my mind, but he must know his Padawan will not comply with his orders.

I think it again shows in a subtle way how the entire Jedi Order would have been saved if they wouldn't have been so closed minded toward Anakin and his feelings. Maybe thats why I sympathize with Ahsoka and Anakin more than the rest of the Order.

The brief glimses of Anakin's rage in the episode were very cool as well

 

I love to read/debate some of those points as well, but regarding your point #1 - do those who don't spend a lot of time with their droids have the opportunity to see the personality that Anakin and we viewers do?

In a strange way, it reminds of varying attitudes towards pets - from those who dress up their dogs and insist on treating them like their children (which I find strange, but harmless), those who KNOW their pets have a personality and attitude (me and my cat), and those who dismiss pets as - well animals, not family (and are they who I find clueless, but I'm still friends with them).

Your point #2 brings up an oft-debated point - are the Jedi callous or do they "release" their feelings and appear callous to those who don't?

As to Anakin's darker-side - I never liked movie-Anakin. Sorry, just didn't see enough of the "good man." Up to this episode I saw him - liked him - wished we had seen more of this Anakin in the movies. I easily would have bought this tragedy of this man being pushed and pulled and descending into darkness.

In the movie, it was inevitable, I'm sorry to say. IMHO.

Now we see flashes of the movie Anakin - we can see both the good and the intense - this dichotomy is - well - what I wanted to see.

Now if they could just dress his padawan in non-teeny-bopper clothing and tone down her attitude, just a bit - she's not a knight, not a master, she's a new apprentice, for Force's sake.

 

I love to read/debate some of those points as well, but regarding your point #1 - do those who don't spend a lot of time with their droids have the opportunity to see the personality that Anakin and we viewers do?

The Jedi spend a lot of time with droids, counting the EU they have them all over the Jedi Temple and each Jedi with a Star Fighter seems to have his own assigned astromech. Comparing beings that can fly spacecraft, prepare meals and fight wars by themselves to pets is a bit of a stretch for me, sorry.

Counting the EU we have tons of droids with lives all there own. From IG-88 to I-5 to R2 and C3PO. They may have once been just machines, but all the evidence seems to point to them having evolved at somepoint. Maybe every character/person doesn't realize the extent of it, but I bet the same thing could be said of slaves throughout human history.

Your point #2 brings up an oft-debated point - are the Jedi callous or do they "release" their feelings and appear callous to those who don't?

Qui-Gon didn't go to Tattooine to free slaves, in fact didn't seem to care that there were slaves there. Nobody in the Jedi Order seemed to even blink at the thought of using a Clone Army to fight the war. They are cold and calculating, because that how they need to be to serve the greater good. They are hard people, set in their ways, many of which I've always been at odds with.

"Lets not tell Luke that Darth Vader is his father, Yoda. Thats not anything important"-Obi-Wan in a deleted scene imagined by Robimus


Now we see flashes of the movie Anakin - we can see both the good and the intense - this dichotomy is - well - what I wanted to see.

Now if they could just dress his padawan in non-teeny-bopper clothing and tone down her attitude, just a bit - she's not a knight, not a master, she's a new apprentice, for Force's sake.

I totally agree on both points.

I think the EU has expanded upon Anakin in a great way from the Comics to Novels to Animated series. The additions make Anakins fall so much more believable than just the films did alone. And I like his portrayal in this series the most of any medium thats appeared thus far.

I'm also always worried Ahsoka is going to catch a cold in that tube top. And remember, she and the Clones are actually the same age........Is she just being flirty?