PT Was having yoda have a lightsaber in the prequels a good idea?

Well I distinctly recall that is all my friends and I talked about in the car trip back home from Clones, but I was only 11 o 12 at the time. I think many objections to the prequels do boil down to some version of what I call the 'OT precedence argument'. If it wasn't in the OT, the PT shouldn't have invented it. Yoda/Palpatine fail to unholster their lightsabers in the OT, ergo they should have resisted the urge in the PT. The OT only showed us earth - like biomes (this isn't actually even true, but that is the perception) ergo the PT should have been set on a variety of planets with boring, earth-like locales. The OT world was lived in and dirty (also arguable) ergo the PT should never have strayed from this aesthetic. These are all versions of the same argument, which is essentially an appeal to authority (in this case the authority of an already established 'tradition') backed up by an appeal to emotion (we liked the OT, it was part of our childhoods, so make the PT in the same way). These might be valid ways of arguing for personal taste, but I don't really think they're great criteria for any kind of assessment of aesthetic or narrative value. I see the Yoda lightsaber issue as a subset of these concerns.

 

Of course he should had it.. We are seeing Jedi during their prime, so even Yoda should wield lightsaber!

 

Yep. I don't see how it contradicts anything.

IIRC, in ESB Yoda says "wars not make one great." He never said that he was never in a war.

 

What does "Wars not make one great" have anything to do with him using a lightsaber or not?

 

Was Yoda a Jedi or not?

If he was then he used a Lightsaber and fought in wars and being 900 he fought a whole lot more than just about anyone else ever.
Obviously he was a Jedi and Jedi fought in the Clone Wars so therefore he fought in a war.

Why would a Jedi Master not be able to use a Lightsaber? A Jedi weapon. How can he possibly be a Jedi Master if he can't use one?

So this superwise and superpowerful being who is a Jedi and can use a Lightsaber and fought in wars lost the war against the Dark Side and is training Luke to destroy Darth Vader and his Emperor in a war of the Light vs the Dark.

Nothing at all.

He did not say "Wars should not be fought." because he was fighting one.

 

The big problem people have with Yoda wielding a saber is that it doesn't gel with what we see of him in the OT. When watching Empire and Jedi (minus the PT) there's a lot that is inferred just by the way those scenes are presented which is radically contradicted in the prequels. OT Yoda seemed far above using a lighstaber. In fact, as a kid, I never really thought of Yoda as a traditional Jedi. Yes, he trained Jedi, but it came across as more like a rocket scientist teaching high school kids algebra. I got the sense that Yoda trained Jedi in the Force aspect but didn't really care or get involved in all the other stuff, such as lightsaber combat.

Don't get me wrong, it was a lot of fun seeing Yoda fight in the prequels (the audience went nuts in AOTC), but in the back of my mind, I knew it kind of ruined his character and the way it was originally depicted.

 

I don't know how it could gel more perfectly. It shows that he was the greatest Jedi and the one that everyone looked to.

He doesn't refer in anyway to much outside of the training of Jedi which we see.

For me it made the character deeper and richer in every way.

 

Another mistake of the PT and also a way to sell more toys IMO. Yoda was a mythical character in the OT I looked at him as such a great Jedi he was above using a saber. But in AOTC all that went out the window and the worst part is he doesn't even win a duel in the PT never loses but still. One minute he's using a cane next backflips and 360s it just wasn't a smart idea to diminish yodas character like that.

 

How can it be a way to sell toys?

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_IV:_Ataru

 

Sorry guys yoda using a lightsaber was so comical no links or arguments can change the way I felt when I saw him ignite that thing and not even beat dooku! Haha

 

Master Yoda action figures that do backflips and carry a big gun that shoots lightsabers.

Well, it's hard to beat someone when they run away... :/

 

He didn't beat palps either everytime yoda used the saber he didn't win which was very disappointing with him being my favorite SW character and he actually ran from palps so…

 

It was the only move he could make... Unless you wanted Yoda to get himself crushed by repulsorpods or get shot by shock troopers.

 

I get what your saying but to answer the original question it was still a bad idea to have yoda use a saber especially if he wasn't going to win any duels. Obi wan defeated maul vader and anakin beat dooku but yoda who was supposed to be this " uber" Jedi can't win one? I mean mace was going to defeat palps but yoda can't? Why is yoda the standard that Jedi measure themselves if yoda is not able to achieve things other Jedi can? TOTALLY DIMISHED HIS CHARACTER

 

I don't see how Yoda's character could have been diminished by using a lightsabre, that simply makes no sense. He's a Jedi master, of course he knows how to use a lightsabre. You can't infer from the OT that Yoda never would have used a lightsabre, there's simply nothing in there that suggests this. You cannot use a lack of evidence either, as OT-Yoda had absolutely no reason use a lightsabre.

The cane was a perfect fit as well. A clear sign of "I don't wave around my skills into everyone's faces, the force isn't a game, you don't misuse it". It's kind of odd that you complain about Yoda using a lightsabre and then about moving from cane to backflips to cane, when this sort of act is exactly how old and wise wizards have been portrayed in stories for decades and centuries. The very people you claim you wanted him to be like.

I don't see how he "didn't beat Dooku" either. Dooku ran away because he was completely outclassed, leaving him with no choice but to force Yoda's attention elsewhere, giving him time to flee. When an enemy cuts down two of your side and then proceeds to claim that he will best you, only to be bested easily in a force-duel and having to run away after a short lightsabre-duel, that's a clear sign he wasn't in any way prepared to deal with you. Using the other fights as a comparison makes little sense, because neither Obi Wan nor Anakin had to save others from certain death!

Beyond all that, you should also not forget that Yoda will obviously change his opinion on a lot of things after ROTS. He was one of THE Jedi masters in the order, but the order failed, fell and let the Republic be turned into an Empire. All while having one of his Jedi be part of that mess, just because the Jedi were unable to deal with certain issues. Sitting around in a swamp for two decades gives you plenty of time to ponder where you failed and what should have been done differently.

 

The thing is, though, that you're looking at it backwards.
You're looking at it from a perspective of having seen ESB before AOTC, which is only natural but not the way Lucas made the Prequels (and Yoda's character) to be watched in context with the OT. Your point would make sense if Yoda had been shown as a "wise Jedi Master" who's "beyond" using a lightsaber in Episode II and then went on fighting in Episode V and not the other way around. Yoda was portrayed as a regular Jedi Master who fought in the Clone Wars - witnessing the horror of war first hand - and became affected afterwards. While I agree with Alexrd that Yoda's character is very consistent, I nonetheless would call this character development because with the Prequels in mind Yoda's words in ESB have a whole new and much more palpable meaning that wasn't really there before. Now we have a Yoda who personally and painfully went through a war not making anyone "great" instead of a Yoda whose past and the background of his "wisdom" were empty.

He didn't lose either, though. In AOTC, he was making the decision to let Dooku escape in favor of Anakin and Obi-Wan's survival which added yet another layer to Yoda's character when thinking about his later words of "sacrificing" Han and Leia in order to "honor what they fight for" to Luke in ESB. Yoda's role in the Prequels and some of the choices he made gave us a wonderful insight into what might have crossed his mind many times during his Dagobah exile. It's also worthy of mention that Yoda ultimately "lost" his duel with Sidious not because of inferior lighsaber skills but because a "Force explosion" (created by a Force showdown between him and Sidious) knocked him out.

Overall, I don't even get the point of being "beyond a lightsaber" ....... Why should fighting with a lightsaber be somehow inferior to fighting with Force powers? That's like saying murder with a fire gun is somehow better than murder with a knife. The alternative of Yoda being someone who sits on his mighty chair in Jedi Towers while others are killed and wiped out in a war would have been way more out of character than lightsaber fighting, imo.

Of course, Yoda didn't have to a Jedi at all. He could have been just a Force Guru who shows up once in a while but doesn't really get involved in Jedi business. That's miles away from the eventual films and the real story, though, and therefore fan fiction and not an alternative that's up to real debate.

 

Just because a lightsaber is the weapon of a Jedi knight doesn't mean every Jedi has to use it. PT yoda is still an old wise Jedi I just didn't like the decision and it did diminish his character for me. It made him just another Jedi but these are just my opinions I don't think anybody who enjoyed yoda with a saber is wrong. I just pictured yoda to be the type to use the force to disarm and totally outwit his opponent.

Would people have been disappointed if yoda never wielded a saber in the PT?

 

I don't recall having much of an opinion looking years ago. Now, I'm so happy they did. Reading the old EU prior to AOTC's release, the Jedi are so protective of Yoda. It's very annoying.

 

He might be the best SW character ever IMO

 

Putting aside the whole lightsaber thing, the bottom line is that there's really no reason for Yoda to be in the PT at all. Nothing he does in those movies actually requires that it be him. Just like R2, 3PO, and Chewbacca, Lucas had to shove Yoda in the PT in order to rely on the iconography of the OT and get the "nostalgia boost", so to speak.

By having him in the PT, it completely ruins a lot of dramatic story elements later on. After Obi Wan dies, there's no one left to train Luke, so the introduction of Yoda is an interesting twist which is amplified by him being a strange, unassuming little creature. Now that the PT (as it is) exists, the audience already knows Yoda is out there, so the whole Yoda revelation is completely pointless. It's also nice to finally get background information on Obi Wan. I think it would have been a lot cooler if Obi Wan's past was left mysterious in the PT and saved for the Yoda revelation in ESB.

When you look at Yoda in the OT, it's very obvious that Dagobah is his home planet, and that he's probably never been in a technological setting. Just look at him: he looks like something that would live in a swamp, and seems quite at home on Dagobah (having built an ancient looking mud hut and commenting on how good the food is). I still don't buy that Yoda once lived in some giant metropolis and went to board meetings in what's basically an office building.

The whole point was that if you wanted to be a Jedi, you had to go to Dagobah and get down and dirty with one-on-one training with Yoda. You got the sense that there were probably several other Jedi masters throughout the galaxy, but Yoda happened to be the one who trained Obi Wan. I always figured that some ye old Jedi Knight in the distant past (who was also trained by Yoda) let young Obi Wan in on the secret that there was this mysterious little green guy who might train him if he measured up. This ye old Jedi Knight may have seen Force potential in Obi Wan, so he let him in on the secret, just as Obi Wan would later do for Luke. In that sense, it kind of reminds me of the old Kung Fu movies in which the hero has to climb up a mountain to get training from an old Shaolin Monk. It's so much cooler to think that Obi Wan traveled to Dagobah at some point as a young man (perhaps even a teenager) to train under Yoda and become a Jedi Knight. They talk about how Obi Wan was reckless when he started his training. Now this conversation no longer makes sense, because Obi Wan was trained by Yoda (in a classroom with other pupils no less) when he was just a toddler! How can you make character judgements such as recklessness when you're talking about a two-year-old? I'm sorry, but I think Lucas really screwed the pooch when it comes to Yoda's character and PT.

 

Yoda being in the PT is not because of nostalgia, but because he was connecting the dots. Lucas had intended for Yoda to be in the PT once he created the character and set up his backstory. In the rough drafts for ROTJ, Yoda even knew who Palpatine was.

EMPEROR: "So you are not dead after all, Obi-Wan. I thought I felt your presence in the netherworld. So, you have returned. But you have failed…the boy is mine, and will soon embrace the Dark Side."

YODA: "It is you who have failed, my old friend."

The Emperor turns around to see the shimmering image of Yoda standing before him.

EMPEROR: "You!"

YODA: "Evil one, this will be the last day of your existence."

So even back in 1980-81, Lucas had the notion of Yoda having interaction with Palpatine. Not just that, but it ties into what Lucas also said about how if Vader had been trained by Yoda, things would have been different. As to training Obi-wan, Yoda trained him until he was thirteen. Enough time to understand that Obi-wan was reckless and full of anger. The Obi-wan in TPM does have anger issues and he's reckless throughout the PT.

Everything else was your perception and assumptions.

 

What's important is what actually ended up on the screen. The first drafts of the original Star Wars had Luke as a 60 year old Jedi general, and Vader was a just a basic henchman of the Emperor.

 

Exactly and there he was on the screen.

That is clearly not the case. There is great reason for him to be involved. How could you possibly have this great Jedi NOT be involved.

Talk about undermining the character!

It certainly did.

I guess you don't care much for TFA then? Talk about "shoving" things in, relying on and nostalgia boosts!

Not in the least. The Yoda revelation is totally intact for Luke as a character. Just like the Vader reveal is. It enhances the drama ten-fold.

I don't see where you get that at all. Yoda is in hiding just like Obi-Wan was. How could they be guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy for a thousand generations if they weren't involved with the Republic?

No one can craft a story to suit the million versions fans created in their minds.

It's not your story. It's Lucas' story and he is telling it to us.

 

What the... ?!

That's on you because there's nothing in the movies that suggests or implies that idea.

It wasn't diminished in the first place.