CT A theory about Yoda and the cave

Look you'll have to excuse me I don't really read the books or care about the EU stuff, so for the sake of debate and/or discussion please let's not cite any of it as if it were canon. As far as I'm concerned and as far as this thread is concerned, anything that doesn't pertain to the original three films is fan fiction.

Now obviously the cave on Dagobah, for whatever reason, is filled with dark energy and the dark side of the force. Whether or not there are other "pockets" of dark energy like this in existence remains a mystery, but I do find it curious that of all people Yoda happens to reside near one. An unlikely coincidence wouldn't you agree? I mean the last known Jedi in the entire galaxy and he just randomly decided to set up shop near a HAVEN of dark side energy? What are the odds?

Would it really be crazy of me to assume that Yoda chose to live on Dagobah for that EXACT very reason?

People who have quit smoking, or people that have beaten an addiction or affliction of some kind sometimes keep an item that is symbolic of that victory close to them at all times. For example someone that quit smoking might keep a cigarette somewhere hidden in their house. Not because they think they'll relapse, but so that it can serve as a reminder of how far they've come. If you were once an addictive smoker but now have the strength to ignore the pack of cigarettes you keep in your own house, then you truly are freed of the affliction. The cigarettes themselves merely serve as a trophy.

The way I see it you don't become as one with the light side of the force as Yoda without ever getting a taste for the dark side. I mean how else could you understand the light without understanding the dark? Surely Yoda at one time or another must have had his own demons to exercise, right? He wasn't BORN righteous, was he?

Would it really be all that surprising if you learned Yoda purposely kept himself close to the cave so that he could have a direct line to the dark side any time he wanted to? Doesn't that empower him a great deal? Could you even think of another reason why the guy would ever willingly choose to live on this ****hole swamp of a planet? Is it the home cooked stu?

My theory is that Yoda made Dagobah his home only after becoming aware of the dark side energy in that cave. It was a way for him to constantly test himself and become more in tune with himself and the light side of the force.

By all means, feel free to weigh in.














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I like your thoughts. I think in a way he is deliberately hiding in plain sight as well. The only thing I don't understand is why Yoda and Ben both appear to have willingly gone dormant if they are so anti-Dark.

 

TCW Season 6 has Yoda travel to Dagobah for the first time - and face some of his own fears. It does seem plausible that it was after those events that he earmarked Dagobah as a suitable location to hide from Palpatine's hunters in.

 

Well in their defense I don't think either of them thought they could contribute to the rebellion in any real meaningful way. Obi Wan didn't really join the fight until he saw Leia's message.

But above all though I think they both knew their role in the grand scheme of things was to guide Luke. They both knew he was the key and that he was the only one who could defeat Vader and The Emperor.


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Grand plan? Yoda was reluctant to train Luke in ESB, even after ObiWan's chat.

 

"This one, a long time have I watched..."

Yoda was not reluctant to train Luke, he was testing him to see how he would react. He wanted to see where Luke's heart was.

Of course he wanted to help him.


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As requested by the OP, I am ignoring the nonsense of the EU.....

I don't think the whole thing is meant to be taken so literally. Dagobah represents Luke's subconscious, it's almost a dream world. Luke has barely arrived when he is telling R2 "there's something familiar about this place..." The cave represents that part of his mind given to the Dark Side. He goes in there and faces himself. Yoda calls it a "domain of evil" but there isn't really anything there. The true "domain of evil" lays inside Luke.

It isn't like there is some bad guy or Sith Lord hanging out in there. When Luke asks what is in there Yoda says "only what you take with you." If Yoda went in there on the day before Luke arrived on Dagobah, or the day after he left, it would just be an empty cave. It's not like Yoda would face an evil entity or Yoda-sized Darth Vader or anything like that.

 

I very much like the idea that Dagobah was a visual metaphor for Luke's journey. Spiritually he was still lost and "in the swamp" so to speak. His future still foggy and still murky.

But unless you're prepared to argue that Dagobah, AND Yoda, were all figments of Luke's imagination... that means there still WAS a cave and it was exactly as Yoda explained it to be.

 

Great theory!

My theory is that Yoda chose Dagobah because the Dark Side energy of the cave would help him remain undetected by the Emperor or Vader.

 

I didn't say they were figments of his imagination, I only said what it represented metaphorically. The cave represents Luke's own subconscious.

It was Luke himself who brought the Dark Side into the cave. Yoda himself said so. When Luke asked what was in there, Yoda replied "only what you bring with you." So, as I said before, if Yoda took an afternoon stroll into the same cave 2 days after Luke left, it would be just a cave.

That's the Timothy Zahn explanation and it's pretty tough to maintain that that is what the producer and director had in mind when they were actually making E5. It works if you accept the now-defunct EU, but really isn't what anyone had in mind back in 1980.

 

If that were correct then why did Yoda call it a domain of evil?






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Interesting thread DealAlterer. I've always wondered about how the 'domain of evil 'and the 'what you take with you' lines fit together. I guess it again raises questions about the nature of the force, duality etc. If we factor in the whole saga, if the force has a will then I'm sure it can manifest itself in the form of the dark side in a certain location. The line about only what you take with you may suggest that the dark side will manifest itself to an individual based on their own state of being, rather than that there really is nothing in there. Hmmm.

Also, I like enigmaticjedi 's idea about Yoda using the dark side energy of Dagobah as camouflage.

 

Yoda chose to reside on Dagobah because it is shrouded in the Force. The dark side especially like the cave, helps hide his presence from the Sith.

Their old and scared.

Actually it works quite well in the context of the film. If it was just a cave, it wouldn't have given Luke such a bad feeling simply being close to it. regardless of what the director had in mind, it's quite clear the cave flows with the Force. Otherwise Luke would be having creepy visions everywhere he went.

 

My feelings are exactly...

 

I think this is a pretty good interpretation. The only bit I would add to this is, that I have always felt Dagobah is like a mirror or anyone who goes there. They are seeing their own reflection in the Cave. I feel as long as someone has the darkside within them that they have not faced and conquered, it will continue to reflect back upon them, especially inside the Cave.

As far as the original post, I would recommend watching the Season 6 Yoda arch from the Clone Wars animated series. I agree with you that most of the EU has felt a lot like fan fiction in the past, but I have always considered Clone Wars to be canon.

 

As I said in my first post, the true "domain of evil" lies within Luke. Obviously, I am not saying Luke is evil, just that there is a bit of the good ole' Dark Side within him.

I think that makes perfect sense.

 

Which is why Yoda has his own "cave experience".

Certainly that's Lucasfilm's current approach.

 

The original EU has some of the best writing I have ever seen, including the Clone Wars comics. I consider TCW to be more akin to poorly written fan fiction.

 

The prequel stuff doesn't do it for me. I've watched small bits of the clone wars and I didn't really care much for Yoda's characterization.

My canon is 4, 5 & 6. I leave the cartoons and all that stuff to the kids and the super hardcore fans.

 

Interesting discussion, but like others, I always took as Luke's own personal journey confronting the dark side. In fact it's one of my favorite scenes in the film. Though what the OP suggests in his post I think is plausible , certainly makes you think about Yoda's past, again if you discount the prequels, EU and clone wars show when you think about it.

 

Right. He was reluctant though based on how Luke had turned out, which is why Obi-wan comes to his defense. Luke realizes that Yoda is right and that he has a lot of work ahead of him, but that he is willing to try.

 

Exactly right. It was the first of a series of tests used to determine Luke's volatility/how much of his father's personality traits he retained.

 

This I agree with. There is a great deal of subtlety in the OT that is overlooked, and I mean that in terms of how the movies use symbolism. The whole OT is drenched in symbolism - and while some argue that, compared to the PT the story is 'simple' it is designed to operate that way, because it is through the symbolism of the movies that the story can be told. The Empire, for instance is THE totalitarian state, to the point of parody. They use torture, they kill arbitrarily, they have built a super-weapon that can destroy whole planets...and they'll use it. That is the setting within which the stories of those opposing that regime occur. The idea that 'maybe there are good people in the Empire' is to miss the point. That is the base around which the characters' tales are woven.

It turns out that at the 'heart' of the Empire is a hooded 'demon', totally without compassion and loyalty, again a parody 'devil' character - but to see him as a character per sé is, again, to miss the point. His 'character' works on being apparitional, ghostly. In ESB we see him only as a hologram in Vader's presence. In ROTJ he is present, really, only with Vader, and later with Luke. And here's where the symbolism is really strong - and this links with the cave on Dagobah.

The cave represents the skull, as per Plato's allegory of the cave. Yoda tells Luke that this place is strong in the darkside, then when questioned as to what Luke will find there he tells the young learner - only what you take with you. Likewise the battle in the throne room in ROTJ. Luke looks out of a portal onto the unfolding battle, and then everything is internalised into the cave like space of the throne room. Vader acts to the command of the Emperor, who goads Luke to do likewise ("If only you knew the power of the darkside"). The Emperor is the darkside - he is Satan/Ahriman; he tempts Luke with instant justice, with the power to put things 'right', he is Vader's psyche, and he will invade and infest Luke in Vader's place. That setting separates the battles, the battle the rebels are fighting against the Imperial Fleet, and the personal battle between Vader, the darkside acolyte and Luke - who rejects the easy path and reminds Vader of who he was - and that he has a choice. To paraphrase Luke's question/answer with Yoda; what is the power of the darkside? Only that which you allow it.

 

Absolutely. The Nazis (complete with uniform) with The Grim Reaper at the helm. Doesn't get much badder than that!

 

I have long felt the reason why Yoda chose Dagobah was to cloak and protect himself by living near a dark side place. It's a very simple and clever way to hide in plain sight.

Some excellent observations here too, a nice thread.