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Lit [Fantasy Flight Games] Because it just keeps getting better

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The Loyal Imperial, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    You couldn't have them start at youngling level and have them reach Knight by the time they're maxing out on their Specialization Trees, or something like that?

    I guess sequel trilogy material would have to wait until after Episode 9 comes out. Too bad to hear about bad space combat rules; I've found that to be hardest part of sci-fi RPGs.
     
  2. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    That's a lot right there - but adventures are a good way to go. Better yet, a campaign. Standard fare for RPGs in general.
     
  3. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    Not unless you want to roleplay as kids, and have NPC masters with you. But also, it's a system about narrative, so flashy lightsabre fights and 1 trick ponies flipping out and cutting droids up is covered in a narrative light system like d20 Saga. :D
     
  4. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    Then FFG's system is unfortunately flawed if that's true - which I don't necessarily think it is.

    I think it would require a modified system that wouldn't be necessarily compatible with OT setting, but it's not the first time that they've done it (i.e. Warhammer).
     
  5. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 13, 2000
    The people who grew up with the prequels are adults now with jobs and throwing around money. FFG can't ignore a whole generation of fans forever. I mean they can, but it's not exactly a sound business strategy.

    Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    They can, though, because those fans are seeing the connective tissue that was CW -> Rebels. And speaking frankly, the prequel emphasis on Jedi will always have a wild imbalance between Jedi and non_Jedi users, which is why there are no Jedi in the FFG game. You never play a Jedi. And it's quite balanced with non-Force users.
     
  7. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    Maybe. Of course, you could always just write guidelines for Padawan-level characters and call it a day.

    Narrative and flashy tricks are not mutually exclusive. (Maybe some of the flashier tricks could be covered by huge success bonuses?)
     
  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    But you'd have to be really at FR2 and with a hefty investment in more than one tree to represent their lightsabre + other skills. Remember, FAD is designed to give you characters like Rey in TFA, Luke in ESB, or Kyle Katarn in DF2:JK. People with very rudimentary Force skills teaching themselves as best they can with limited guidance. This is as much for narrative cohesion with the timeframe of the three games, as it is to balance Force and non-Force users (because in Saga, balance was absolutely ****ed). I don't think it is meant to also replicate the Force user experience in WEG but it is certainly a similar outcome.

    You could do an Old Republic era game if you just handwave it that the galaxy's understanding of the Force is vastly less mature (and thus lean more to the Ulic/Cay/Nomi TOTJ TPB style) and therefore the Jedi are not as powerful. But you cannot do Prequel-era padawans without throwing balance out the window (for reference; Knight-level play, which adds 150 earned XP that cannot be spent on attributes, is intended to give you ROTJ Luke levels of power. Not prequel era).
     
  9. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    KOTOR? Never going to happen. The obsession with "Official Canon" closed that door - let's just take that off the table.
     
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  10. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    I was more referring to homebrew, but I mean I also absolutely agree with your point.
     
  11. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    I would point out that it's the gamemaster's responsibility to make sure that everyone has a role to play in the sessions.
     
  12. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    OK have you played FR2 level Force users before? With non-Force?
     
  13. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 25, 2014
    I feel like you're speaking at cross purposes when you use these examples. There's nothing Anakin can do in Attack of the Clones that Luke can't in The Empire Strikes Back. He jumps, he flips, he levitates stuff, he sword fights but not well compared to a Sith Lord. The fact that the d20 system turned that into a lot of crazy super powers doesn't mean this system would have to in order to dive into that era (and the fact that they've created Rebels content already further drives that home).
     
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  14. revan772

    revan772 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Aug 5, 2014
    I am going to do the second mission for Imperial Assault this Friday after work, and I cannot wait! I had a lot of fun with the first mission, and am excited to see where it goes from here. I am hoping to play this more often, and get more expansions soon. I just want to say I love this game. :) (And was hoping to talk with others about it.)
     
  15. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    OK except also no.

    The levels of reflect, the likely 1 ranged defence die, and the sheer strain pool needed to pull off the stuff Mannequin does means you're at least 200XP off ESB Luke on Force skills alone.
     
  16. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    I'm still trying to pull a game together. I could see the TMP approach working (have each character working a piece of the plan tailored to them where everyone succeeding is needed for victory).
     
  17. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
  18. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    To get to FR2, and to get to prequel level skills, you'd need to be several hundred XP in at which point the non-Jedi would be like Boba Fett level. It's simply not balanced for Prequel era Jedi, and I'm ok with that because they're such a one dimensional set of characters. But mechanically, it doesn't work and the FAD approach is narratively really engaging.
     
  19. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    Rule number one of gamemastering: if it doesn't exist, make it up or fudge it. Besides, why do the rules have to be totally movie accurate? They've always prioritized playability and fun over exacts. Heck, FFG's stuff isn't even purely canon anyways.
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
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  21. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    I see no reason why the modest Force "power levels" supported by the RAW would be an impediment to FFG producing a Dawn of Rebellion-style prequel / TCW-era sourcebook. Besides the fact that such a book would have plenty of utility even in a campaign based in the OT or pre-OT eras, the rules' ability to mechanically support Jedi PCs with prequel-era "power levels" is ultimately less important than the ability of the narrative system (and a good GM) to make the players feel like prequel-era Jedi. Start 'em at knight level and give them plenty of B1s to mow down, and you're well on your way.
     
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  22. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    I think the issue here guys is that you're saying words like "should not", "ought not", or "I don't see any reason why not". Which means you're talking in theory and not practice.

    Notwithstanding a very obvious and deliberate design choice around Force use, for balance, the notion the GM could make them feel like Prequel padawans (as put forward by @The Positive Fan) strikes me as well intentioned but deaf and blind to the mechanics of Force powers. Yes, you could with 150 earned XP go deep into Shien Expert and have lots of ranks in deflect and some ranks in Grit to buff up your strain. The second you tried to push a bunch of B1s to the ground the "feel" would fall apart, because of the silhouette and number of targets upgrading the check to needing 2-3 light side pips or using dark side pips and getting conflict. The single white die has I think 1 of its 12 sides with 2 light side pips. So in terms of lifting, jumping, pushing - all the other things those one dimensional prequel Jedi did when not flipping out with their laser swords and thinking flashy combat was a substitute for a personality, cannot be done. The feel shatters.

    FAD came out in I think 2015, which means for 3 years people playing the system have tried to resolve this question and noted that it just does not work. You do not have a CR for opponents, and they don't scale in hitpoints. So as the PCs get more powerful minions groups tend to be doubled (2 minion groups for every 1 previously) or rivals tend to get thrown in and maybe buffed to adversary 3 or similar. But it's still not as difficult as you'd imagine. The reality is, this game was designed with the OT ethos firmly in mind. The ST was designed with the OT ethos firmly in mind. The prequels are, to many pre-1997 fans, more of an outlier and better served by Saga edition which catered to level creep better. Trying to shoehorn prequels into this will be that - a shoehorn job, and it will never feel right. Incidentally nor will trying to play prequel Jedi in WEG.
     
  23. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    So you've tried simulating prequel-era Jedi yourself in FAD? Something about your oft-repeated "one-dimensional / flashy combat" shtick suggests probably not. ;)

    In any event I didn't disagree with you that the mechanics ultimately don't support prequel-era Jedi. I'm saying that the narrative system and a gamemaster who knows how to use it (and knows when to fudge) can cover where the mechanics fail. Shoehorn? Of course. But whether it feels "right" is entirely in the hands of the GM. The mechanics can't and won't "simulate" the prequel era, but a skillful GM can.

    Besides which, as I noted above, a prequel / TCW-era sourcebook has plenty of utility even outside of an immediate prequel / TCW-era setting. Imagine an FAD campaign set, say, one or two years after ROTS - Order 66 fresh in the minds of traumatized survivors, an Empire still transitioning away from clonetroopers and CW-era ships, PCs encountering battle droids and Inquisitors while raiding Separatist holdouts for weapons and supplies, and so on. That's the real potential of such a sourcebook, I suspect.
     
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  24. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    I have, actually. WE had 2 players away, and built out a bunch of Jedi to see how combat with characters in Dawn of Rebellion would pan out. I and another player had concerns about the NPCs in DOR being too strong.

    And Dawn of Rebellion basically is what you're talking about, only maybe 5 years into the Dark times.
     
  25. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    Which NPCs did you use and what was your impression afterward? Did they turn out to be too strong?
    More like fourteen to nineteen years in, isn't it, given its coverage of Rebels and R1? I'm imagining a campaign set very much before that - same general idea as DoR I suppose, but tweaked as described above - a galaxy freshly ravaged by the Clone Wars, where the fire of hope hasn't been lit yet and things are pretty much as bleak as we'll ever see in a Star Wars setting. That's more than enough right there to make an interesting era book out of.
     
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