Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

the Galaxy not the public? So its more than just the Republic and the Imperial Remanent? (I am operating on the First Order is not the IR's public face) How many faction in the galaxy are there?

 

I dunno, I don't really see "acquiesces to disorder" and "they shot first" as adding up to a coherent political program. Especially when the Nazis both (1) argued that democracy was intrinsically perverse and would lead to violence, and (2) blamed all their crimes on the need to defend themselves from their dastardly enemies the Bolshevists and the Jews, who had stabbed Germany in the back during WW1 and were now poised to destroy her. Especially when Hux is ranting his speech at the top of his lungs in an obvious Hitler-callback on a raised platform where rows and rows of soldiers and tanks are doing formation movement below--and they're all really there to watch approvingly as a giant laser beam shoots up into space to destroy a star system. I really don't think I'm doing a lot of reading-into here.

Still, I'm not actually trying to argue that we should dismiss the FO as nothing more than a bunch of silly children playing dress-up or w/o. Naziism actually had quite a sophisticated ideology, with deep roots in the philosophical and scientific world of Europe, and was disproportionately popular among intellectuals and academics in the West and elsewhere. Even the focus on aesthetics is not silly, but deadly serious. A basic argument of fascism was that democratic liberal capitalist existence was corrupt and perverse and colorless and meaningless by nature--and the presentation of a counter-aesthetic of life and vitality and strength and redemptive violence was not just window-dressing, but a core part of the argument of the movement. But the argument made is not primarily political in the modern American sense of that word--where the discourse is supposed to be about how to most efficiently do certain things and solve certain problems that we all agree on. It's an argument about what government is, and how human life should be conducted on a basic level. It's not designed to solve mundane problems, but to save the soul of the nation. You can't even talk about it ultimately except in religious terms.

All I'm really trying to say is that the goals of the FO are fundamentally ideological, quasi-religious, and transformational. So were the Galactic Empire's, of course, and especially in the NEU where the Empire's basically totalitarian nature is made a lot clearer than in the EU--but the Galactic Empire was working with the machinery of an ancient Galactic civilization, with lots of intertia and tradition behind it, and so it was perfectly possible for lots of people to view it as a basically conservative and stabilizing force. Again, these people were mistaken, but they didn't know that.

The basic idea of the FO just seems to be the Empire's totalitarian and ideological core without the trappings of traditionalism. This is not something we should view as silly or cartoonish--even if Americans have been taught to view fascism and Naziism as 100% silly and cartoonish and not able to be taken seriously. There's a lot of room for genuine interest, and a lot of great stories that could be made based on this idea. Show us Hux really believing that life in the Republic is dirty and meaningless, that its government is a bunch of spineless, corrupt degenerates, and its citizens need to be delivered from that--show him really believing that the Empire was treacherously betrayed from within, and those who threaten the FO need to be liquidated to save it and Galactic civilization. Or show us some other characters with different angles on the whole operation. There can certainly be ordinary FO citizens who are indoctrinated to view it as positive and good but aren't totally onboard with or really even understand the ideology of the core leadership. But we don't need to turn the FO into something they're clearly not in order to view them as having an understandable point of view. If we get to see a bunch of traditionalist aristocratic FO people, then sure, I'll go with that too. So far, all we've seen are obvious fascists--and I mean obvious, 100% unsubtle fascists. This doesn't need to be a problem, though. We can leave them as fascists, and still tell good stories about them.

 

Fair enough, I agree.

It's not like the FO have given any reason or sign of redeeming qualities. They really are a nation of jackasses. They do have a traditionalism but its a veneration of the Empire while also viewing it as a failed state compared to themselves. Which means they are MUCH more extreme at the end. I just really was hoping we would get some more honorable foes and moral ambiguity but seems the Empire is getting worse while the Rebellion is....also getting worse

Thank God we can always trust in General Organa.

*realizes what he typed*

 

You know, it's really hard to follow these long political discussions when both parties are putting on a persona...

 

Persona?

 

"But my planet destroying evil empire is better than your planet destroying evil empire because they're [human-centric racists/indoctrinated children]."

 

Jello hates the reformist attitude of the First Order which recognizes Core World culture was standing in the way of the fraternity, equality, and lack of liberty brought by the Pax Primo Edictio.

But yes, do we think the First Order will exist after Episode 9?

That's only a couple of years away.

 

That's not a defence.

It's a terrible leader that would allow for a system in which the ultimate weapon to be used without his consent. Alderaan is either an example of brutish tyranny or staggering incompetence on the part of the emperor. But really it's both with a side of megalomania.

 

Well, in Legends, Palpatine approved Alderaan's destruction.

Not sure about canon.

 

Anyone else read Blade Squadron: Jakku? I found it to be really underwhelming, plus it barely covered the space battle. Thoughts?

--Adm. Nick

 

I agree. You have this epic battle going on and Agate's huge sacrifice and all we get from Blade Squadron is a run of the mill ground attack. Felt like something from a slow point in an rpg.

 

Well you should know seeing as you are an Imp fanboy, rebellion breeds quickly. The more you fight back the stronger we get.

 

Being an Empire fan is a rebellion itself.

 

I am telling you Jello is really the biggest Rebel of us all. He just refuses to admit it.

 

Rebel fans are the "Empire" of the SW fandom.

 

Amusingly, read JOIN THE RESISTANCE today and I don't recommend it but it did combine all of the existing First Order origins.

“Do you know what the First Order is?” Jo asked him. Mattis remembered hearing about the First Order from Snap, but Jo did not wait for a reply. “The First Order started out as a splinter group of the Empire. After the Battle of Jakku, they broke off and gained a modicum of respectability. They were even part of the New Republic for a while. But they’ve been planning something. An awakening of power and destruction. That’s what General Organa says, and she’s seen it before. General Organa helped Admiral Ackbar defeat the Empire a generation ago.”

 

The more you tighten your grip and all that you know.

 

I make them!

 

If I may be controversial, I do not believe the empire has "fans" as in the empire is good. More like the disbelief the galaxy can be so dysfunctional on an interstellar level and actually manage to function on a basic level.

The interstellar governments of the GFFA suffer from the same stupidity that afflicts the Marvel or DC governments of earth to justify a need from superhero's without a severe alienating para-dime shift that would launch marvel and DC into speculative fiction Ala Dune, thus for story a certain amount of incompetence is necessary. Even if that incompetence would in reality be a symptom of social or governmental collapse.

after all how many Star Trek fan root for the Romulan Empire or Cardassian union over the UFP?

 

Uh....there is a substantial fanbase who prefer these guys to the Federation.



I mean, Lord knows, I'd prefer to live on Bajor than the Federation. Maybe not during the Cardassian occupation but you wouldn't be able to keep me anywhere near Earth.