Lit HAVAC IS BACK - The Lit Forum Social Thread, v2.0

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Master_Keralys, Jan 1, 2009.

  1. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    @Cynical_Ben oh, from a film history perspective Snow White can't be bettered -- I always love hearing about "Disney's Folly." And then reading the breathless, astonished reviews that came out in the newspapers after it was released... it's pretty great. But I meant that as far as the value system that we see in Snow White, it's basically the most outdated of them all -- "someday my prince will come" indeed!

    @Lugija Widmore plays this really jerk king guy. Basically he's the same guy as he is in Lost, lol. Fitting!

    @Zorixxor Rumple is definitely a fascinating character -- one who grows more complex as the season goes on. I'm glad you're willing to go through the first season at least. If you're following the same trajectory as I am, I think you'll be sold somewhere near the end of the first season. I agree about the acting not being great at first, but they do find their legs eventually. Still, Regina and Rumple are by far the best acted characters, and the kid is never, ever convincing.
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  2. Rogue Five Jedi Master

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    Jun 11, 2014
    star 2
    Crap! (holds breath)


    (turns the same color as my avatar)



    Hey, do I contradict the EU now?
    Last edited by Rogue Five, Aug 9, 2014
  3. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    No it means she is german
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  4. _Catherine_ Chosen One

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    Jun 16, 2007
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    Yeah but that's three movies out of, like, a lot. I mean Pinocchio was the second movie they did and it still holds up today. I know the pre-Renaissance princess films are the most visible symbols of that era, but that's because of marketing; their message isn't really representative of classic Disney as a whole.
    Last edited by _Catherine_, Aug 9, 2014
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  5. Praenomen Cognomen Force Ghost

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    Mar 24, 2013
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    Yeah, and regardless, removing it from the context of its era is silly; observing the things which fell out of acceptability is one of the primary ways in which we establish our progress vectors for social morality. I take issue with the idea that if Disney buries those films, they get called revisionist, but if we bury them for ourselves, it's somehow noble.
  6. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    I am by no means suggesting that we bury them, and I will surely show my kids those films when I have kids -- I'm just saying that I don't watch them very often.

    Sure: Dumbo, Bambi, Pan, Dalmatians, Jungle Book, Lady and the Tramp, etc. are all great films that I still have fond memories of. All dated too, but for different reasons. I don't mean to suggest that classic Disney is boring, just that Snow White and Sleeping Beauty feel lacking compared to more recent princess films. Not that they aren't still masterful, especially with the music, animation, camerawork etc.
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  7. Praenomen Cognomen Force Ghost

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    Mar 24, 2013
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    I love Sleeping Beauty because it actually integrates the Tchaikovsky ballet; a bit more respectful of the tale than some of their films. But overall, yeah, I'd pin the reception to early Disney on the same reason Around the World in 80 Days won an early Oscar. Terrible movie... but technically significant.

    And that precedent is why it's so absurd that Andy Serkis isn't considered for Oscars...
    Last edited by Praenomen Cognomen, Aug 9, 2014
  8. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    I watched Snow White again a couple years ago... and eugh, yeah, I'm with Jello: it just felt so ooooooooooold. It was the film quality itself that's turned me off it more than anything, as while I can stand back and appreciate that it was awesome animation in its own day, today... it felt so stiff and the accents of those films don't help me relax either, as it just doesn't feel "fun" (and this is without even factoring in anything about the plot that might today feel sexist or outdated).

    Sleeping Beauty I preferred as it had a bit more... of a stylised feel that I was more able to appreciate for its own particular style, although like a lot of those old kids films, when I watched it a couple of years ago during the animation marathon I went through (I watched a different animation every night for like six months :p) I did find the plot structure a bit... textbook. I'm sure I found it fine as a kid probably (though I don't think I ever finished the film at that age, as Maleficent terrified me), but it's not something I can watch these days without quickly getting bored.

    Not that I consider them bad films from an academic standpoint or anything, they're just not something I'm going to put on out the blue to sit back and chill out at night, as they don't do anything for me.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Aug 9, 2014
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  9. TrakNar Force Ghost

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    I like watching old films for the animation techniques.
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  10. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

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    May 23, 2005
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    Gah! Too many things demanding money! X-Wing minis! New GK codex! Armada! Community Season 5!

    At least I got a call about a job I applied for, so hopefully that works out. Nothing exciting, but a job is a job.
  11. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Good luck! "A job is a job" seems to be the mantra of our generation.
  12. _Catherine_ Chosen One

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    Jun 16, 2007
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    I can't stand Sleeping Beauty. The animation is gorgeous of course and Maleficent is a classic villain, but all of the other characters are terrible and I hate them. It's one of the worst Disney "classics" imo.

    Still a better movie than Hercules though.
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  13. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

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    May 23, 2005
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    Hercules is a fun movie. Tramples over the original mythology, but most Disney movies do that to the source material. Unfortunately it's not even a cult classic like Emperor's New Groove.

    Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella on the other hand are far overrated.
  14. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

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    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Congrats!!!

    I haven't seen Hercules or ENG. All the Disney movies of the late 90s I never got around to watching. They're probably in that Disney vault thing now.:(
    Last edited by Barriss_Coffee, Aug 10, 2014
  15. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Oct 23, 2004
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    Mind you, in my experience a lot of companies also do more than little to push their employees to feel like that.
  16. Lugija Force Ghost

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    Oct 3, 2009
    star 4
    Some work-related quotes I remember well:

    My father: Working is an illness caused by hunger and cold.

    Dilbert: You aren't supposed to like work. That's why you get paid.

    My physics teacher: Sorry I'm late, I suddenly realized that I like my job and had to lie down until it passed.

    Chinese proverb: How to be happy forever? Love your job.
  17. Vthuil Force Ghost

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    Jan 3, 2013
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    Gorefiend, can I just take a moment to say that I love your new avatar?
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  18. Findswoman Force Ghost

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    Feb 27, 2014
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    Aw, come on, where's the love for Sleeping Beauty? That was always among my favorite of the Disney "princess" films.

    (ducks rotten tomatoes)

    But really, however "unmodern" the story may be (and if you read what Bruno Bettelheim has to say about stories like this, you may find your opinion changing), how is it possible to beat the stunningly beautiful music either borrowed or adapted from Chaikovsky?* Some of the all-time best music in a Disney film, in my opinion.

    *Nope, not a misspelling. A perfectly acceptable variant spelling, and the one that's being used in most Anglophone music scholarship these days.
  19. Praenomen Cognomen Force Ghost

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    Mar 24, 2013
    star 4
    Yeah, you can't go into it like a "sit the kids down for that classic hypnotic Disney story rhythm for some distraction" experience. You have to approach Sleeping Beauty more like Fantasia.


    "This is some ****, right here."
    ---Music store stock person.
    Last edited by Praenomen Cognomen, Aug 10, 2014
  20. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

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    I honestly don't remember ever seeing Sleeping Beauty. And ENG is a cult classic? Never heard that one before. I thought it was just alright.

    Now Hercules, OTOH, is great fun. After a slew of straight-up musicals, it instead significantly cut back on the number of songs, as well as utilizing a Greek Chorus to great effect. Also, James Woods. 'Nuff said. :D
  21. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Eugh... Herecules, I hate, hate, hate that film (and my hate is not helped by the fact I abhor the Coleseum stage in Kingdom Hearts that they Put. In. Every. Game.).

    So, yeah, chicken and the egg... not sure which is the original source for my dislike of the Disney Hercules, just my dislike is a deeply rooted abhorrence. :p

    Emperor's New Groove... hmm... think I saw that once during lunch when I was at school (so a loooong time ago), so I don't remember it much. One that I do remember enjoying as a kid but rarely seems to get mentioned was Sword in the Stone.
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  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
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    I'm not sure I've seen Hercules either but it's on Netflix and on my list of films to check out, along with Mulan, which I also somehow missed.

    I loved Lady and the Tramp, Bambi, and Fox and the Hound when I was a kid. Snow White, Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella, though...just no.

    Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King and Pocahontas got me back into Disney in the 90s; it was nice having one film per year for awhile.

    With Tangled, Brave and Frozen, though, the films are just getting better.
    _Catherine_ likes this.
  23. Darkwriter Force Ghost

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    Jan 28, 2006
    star 4
    Sleeping Beauty was one of my favorites. Briar Rose did absolutely nothing, but Phillip had so much sass.
  24. _Catherine_ Chosen One

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    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Hercules has that obnoxious '90s "attitude" thing going on. One of the first lines in the movie is "you go, girl!" I remember being embarrassed in the theater as a small child.

    I don't even like the animation that much. It has some good music and voice acting, otherwise it's bottom-five Disney for me.
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  25. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    haha I love it when movies try to be hip and appeal to a young audience, and the young audience treats it just like their dad trying to be cool: never, ever effective.
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