ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in Episode VII

And round and round we go...

 

Is it really that big of a deal to keep someone in the light? Anakin fell, someone from the ST generation will probably fall, must we go 3 for 3 with Luke? Can't we have one feel good story? Luke should be what Anakin never was.

 

I think there are people suffering from the Star Wars equivalent of OBHWF, or One Big Happy Weasley Family from Harry Potter where Harry has to marry Ginny and Ron has to marry Hermione so that everyone can live happily ever after. Now granted, it did wind up happening, but here's the thing, Star Wars isn't HP and Luke isn't Harry just as Luke isn't Anakin. He's his own person traveling down his own road discovering his own destiny and we're going to have to wait and see where that road leads him.

 

The Emperors fail safe, his back up plan in his inevitable death which he must of foreseen. "Do not let any offspring of Skywalker live" "destroy the Skywalkers at all costs". A plan relayed to his inquisitors/corrupted force users from childhood which I think 'rebels' is setting up.

Fast forward 20 years, these acolytes have destroyed everything Luke had around him, he has had his life and family ripped apart for two decades so he disappears for the good of those around him, maybe Kira is his sole remaining offspring hidden away, he believes to be dead. Could still work if she is a Solo. This whole ordeal has broken him, Luke feels the Darkside overtaking him, he is disfigured from battle and he is broken, he distances himself to keep those left safe maybe he is redeemed in a different way by his daughter/neice in time for him to come back fully to the light sacrifice himself to save her/lead her on the way to restoring the jedi order and destroying the remnants of sidious reign and bringing true balance by IX.

Just some thoughts from a lurker. I'd buy into the above reasons for lukes dark state


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Die a hero or live long enough to be a villain. What a wonderful message.

 

Agree much here.. watched this flick yesterday evening after a long time and reading your post linked some things in my head immediately---




its Kobayashis 'Harakiri' ('Seppuku').. the main protagonist sure appears dark from the getgo but yea i dont wanna spoil here..

there even is this samurai codex angle (jedi codex) with the armour (Vaders armour/cyborg-upgrades) as sort of a main symbol throughout the entire film, even with some kind of a fetish application to it




its often like the characters are completely aware what they (want to) fight for, but when it all gets started the intrinsic aspects of their feudal code kick back in and start developing a momentum of their own

 

There also seem to be a lot of people trying to turn Star Wars into 'Game of Thrones'. Here's a news flash, Star Wars was popular when it launched because it was light-hearted and fun after years of dreary dark films. Guess what, I want it to still be light-hearted and fun. When no hero can live without being turned into a villain, it's the opposite of that.

 

I agree. Here's something I think people are forgetting and I'm not pointing fingers here, just an observation that if Luke turns dark, there's absolutely no reason he can't turn back to the light. The big questions are how, why and when.

 

They need to be careful with the light dark light thing...we don't need a space version of Hamlet here lol.

 

Another possibility for Luke, as mentioned by a poster earlier–a Luke who had transcended light/dark. This reminds me of Revan (who, as my name suggests, I am a big fan of):

What if Luke was so powerful in VII that the heroes (even Han) considered him to be dark, but in reality he has transcended that, and has become something that would seem initially to be something very dark, but in reality he had just learned to make the two sides of the Force coexist within himself?

 

@Dra---

Your Jesus analogy really DOESN'T work AT ALL. Yes, He suffered terrible torture and may even have had a temporary moment of doubt, but He never became a villain who committed horrible evil acts as you're so enthusiastically supporting for Luke.

In the first place, no one said they "hate" Luke, and you know that. You also know that those of us who are railing against this Darth Luke rumor that you seem to like so much aren't doing it because he's been hurt or even because he's "ugly" (though I do think that's unfair to Luke and especially to Mark Hamill). It's because we don't want to see the iconic hero, Luke Skywalker, twisted into the latest evil Star Wars villain. There's a HUGE difference between being hurt/ugly, and being a monstrous Sith.

Here's *my* problem with this: Luke has already been through so many trials and he didn't fall. He was offered the rule of the galaxy with his father, and he turned it down. He saw his guardians (parents), mentors (Yoda, Ben), and best friend, Biggs and many other colleagues killed. He was severely injured TWICE, once losing his hand and then he was nearly electrocuted. He faced two of the most powerful Force users in galactic history at the same time. He twice chose to die rather than join the darkside.

He also got to see the glory of the Light side by seeing the ghosts of yoda, Obi-wan, and his father.

It just doesn't make sense for this character to have him become a villain after all of that. PICK ON SOMEONE ELSE! Leia hasn't faced dark side trials. Neither have the new characters. Why destroy an iconic character that people have enjoyed following for three decades when there are so many other options available? Why purposely cause controversy among SW fans when you don't need to do so?


And I'll ask again: If there are no Jedi at the beginning of episode VII, who is going to train them? If Luke has been missing/a captive for more than 30 years, he never trained Leia, so she can't teach new Jedi either.

And if even a Jedi who has gone through trial after trial without giving in to the dark side ends up becoming the saga's great villain, how can the people of the galaxy ever trust ANY Jedi. Might as well not have any in the galaxy at all.

The Jedi are supposed to BE the heroes; NOT the villains. Let's not turn the guy who should be the premiere Jedi into evil incarnate. It's just plain WRONG and not at all satisfying or enjoyable. I go to SW films to be entertained and have fun; not to be shocked , appalled, and hugely disappointed and punched in the gut. That's NOT fun.

No matter HOW they would do it, it's still an heroic male Skywalker falling to the darkside and becoming a villain again. I don't care if the details are different; it's still the same basic story. I'm really surprised that someone like yourself, who is such an expert on story writing and structure, would actually promote what is basically a copycat, repetitive story like that.

I agree with you that heroes shouldn't be perfect. But there's a difference between being flawed/imperfect and having the hero become an evil villain who commits terrible evil. A HUGE difference!

What does that even mean???? AGAIN, there is a difference between enduring suffering and beoming EVIL. Christ never became evil, and Luke shouldn't either.





Revanfan1:

I'm *not*! If they truly turn Luke into a villain, they've ruined SW for me. It doesn't matter if they plan to "redeem" him or not, Luke Skywalker's character will never be the same. Once someone becomes a true, evil villain, how can you ever trust that they will never relapse and go bad again?

Even more importantly, he will have lost his integrity and will no longer be a respected, heroic model for others.








JediKnightWax:

How do you "force" someone to be evil??? Vader and the Emperor tried to make Luke become evil and they failed. Luke CHOSE to remain on the lightside even if it meant losing his life. He did this TWiCE. I don't know why as an older, wiser, more experienced Jedi, someone could do what the Emperor and Vader couldn't do when Luke was a teenager/in his early twenties.







@Artoo-Dion:

As I sad to @Dra, there's an enormous difference between being flawed/making some mistakes, and being the film's big villain. It's fine for a hero to be a bit flawed, NOT to commit evil and become the galaxy's greatest villain.
.






@Satipo

I don't expect a thousand strong Jedi academy either, but I do think that Luke SHOULD have started to train at least a few Jedi during the 30 years between trilogies.

I think Luke SHOULD be the character of high integrity. He doesn't have to be perfect, but he should be a good example/model for the new Jedi. The ST shouldn't BE Luke's film (or Han's, but that's another rant!), so it shouldn't actually matter if you happen to consider him to be a bit "dull" as a good person. This isn't supposed to be his trilogy, The younger characters are the ones that need to be made interesting and exciting going forward. They need to face their trials.

The filmmakers shouldn't be twisting and inventing a new and evil Luke Skywalker. They should let us enjoy seeing the hero we know and love in action at least once, and then we should see him pass his Force knowledge on to the younger generation.

 

Mine too obviously. It also showed me yesterday that sometimes its necessary to visually bring back objects that are more or less hardened into a symbol (for good or evil for example) to their actual use in the real world and by doing so "redeeming" their general appearance:

Really using the armour as a defence mechanism here:



and here, no longer an evil symbol but the tool to shield its carrier from the lightning (well at least rudimentally) :

 

A lot of this feels like semantics: is he Darth Luke, a bad guy, tortured? Corrupted? Conflicted?

I'll make this bold prediction: IF Luke is darker, conflicted, or affected by his experiences (whatever they may be) and IF they make a good movie, we will love it in the end.

If however, they blow the execution, we'll hate it.

As a guy who likes crafting amateur fiction, there is a lot more dramatic mileage in a corrupted or tortured Luke than just having him show up as the good 'ol hero again. I understand how many of you are cringing at the thought of your hero going dark, but from a dramatic point of view, it works better in my very humble opinion.

 

Do we really want him going around saying "Compassion is for those who deserve it." Do we really want to see that on screen?

 

Luke was right to say that to unredeemable sith. He would not say that to most

 

Like I said, I don't want him to be a villain. If that were to happen, especially if he were to die a villain, then the Sequel Trilogy would probably be ruined for me, but not all of Star Wars certainly! Luke is my favorite character but why would I give up on all that Luke was before just because I don't like something that he does later? No, definitely not. Luke's not the only thing I like about SW, even if he is a huge part of it.

As for the whole "relapse" thing? It's kind of like a cocaine addict who has completely blown the habit. Not just a temporary turn away from it, but a true, honest, complete blowing off of the habit. Doesn't even desire the stuff anymore. Maybe if he was offered coke again he'd be tempted, but he will likely be strong enough to turn away from it. Luke could be the same. Of course, only we would know that he was truly "off" the dark side; his family might never trust him wholly again.

But even saying this makes me think this: I'd prefer to think of Luke as a person who's offered cocaine once, but sees its effects on other people and decides he does not even want to try it. To me this is Luke as of now. In ROTJ, he's seen the effects of the dark side on Vader and what it could do to him, and he thinks I don't want this. And even if someone offers it to him, he doesn't even consider accepting it. That's what I want to see from Luke. It's what I hope to see. But to a certain extent I'm willing to see where a marginally darker Luke would be.

To use the LOST comparison (keep in mind I'm only in Season 2, so please no spoilers for further on):

Spoiler

Charlie broke his coke addiction in Season 1. He became an awesome character; funny, kind, caring, and helpful, if at times a bit temperamental. In Season 2, he found a stash of coke that had crashed in a plane on the island. He took the coke...but he never used it. Despite this, once his friends found out he had the coke and hadn't told anyone, they all began to suspect him and nobody would trust him because they thought he was using. I'm afraid this would be Luke–his family would not be able to trust him because they were afraid he'd started "using" again.

Well...that's true. If he doesn't turn back.

Hmm, hadn't thought of that! No, not really.

 

Artoo-Dion:

I've seen this comment a number of times as evidence that Luke was destined to fall. I very much doubt that Mark Hamill really knew what was going to happen in the sequel trilogy. Maybe Lucas didn't even know back then. You have to take what Hamill said in context. That comment was made in an interview right before RotJ came out... the very same week. The question was something along the lines of would Luke be back for the sequel trilogy? Hamill couldn't give away what was going to happen in the highly-anticipated RotJ which was coming out in a few days. So his response was coy. He said something about him maybe needing to be on another plane of existence or another character because of what happens in the film. He couldn't spoil the film by saying that Luke was going to survive his duel with Vader. Luke could have died in that film. Then Hamill would have needed to play a Force ghost Luke (on another plane of existence) or a totally new character in the ST if Luke had died and Hamill was still going to be involved in the ST.







@plaidphoenix:.

Evidently you don't read my posts. I have said a number of times that once Luke has been a major villain and has committed terrible evil, he will never be the same again. How can anyone ever trust that he won't relapse and go evil again? Plus, if he has committed terrible atrocities, he will need to be punished, maybe even.. executed... for them. Once Luke has lost his integrity, he will never be the same heroic character again. I never liked Anakin because of the terrilble evil that he committed. Yes, he saved his son in the end, but that doesn't make up for the death and destruction he caused. Dead people can't be brought back to life. The same would be true of Luke. He would forever be remembered as a villain; NOT as a hero. Luke's character from the OT will have been destroyed beyond repair.

And a Skywalker redemption story has already been told. Why do you want to see the same story you've already seen in SW???






@Force Smuggler:

Exactly, FS!!!! I completely agree that Luke should be what Anakin could have been but never was! I don't understand why so many SW fans seem to want a doom and gloom, grimdark SW story in Episode VII.







@ stellarmagic01:

Well said, stellar! I too don't understand why so many people seem so eager to make Episode VII into a disturbing, depressing, pessimistic, dark, unsatisfying story.

 

You could take Luke to some of the darkest places you could imagine, torture him, have the villain be his child by rape, maim him, drive him insane, you name it, as long as he himself does not choose the dark side out of greed and fail like his father did and I could go for it (if the execution was good). He could even have been attempting to merge the light and dark sides and become corrupted, as long as it is clear that he is the victim and not the perpetrator. Or he could have abandoned the Force entirely, deciding using the Force has caused the galaxy more harm than good. There are a lot of places they could take Luke as long as they don't make him a Sith and a Vader or Sidious clone.

Luke is inspirational because he suffers but still stays light and heroic. I don't want to see his character sold out for a cheap shock. And if they go that route, I never want to hear a Han Solo fan bellyache ever again about who shot first.

 

sure some nolan sw





c. nolan, first day: "lets get rid of all the impractical elements in this show!"

 

JIC anyone was interested...

Mark Hamill @HamillHimself · 9h 9 hours ago
Happy Halloween! My 2nd UK Halloween in a row. Please don't TP my house while I'm gone. Guard dogs (&sons) on alert!!!

 

I've never seen a TPed house in my life. I guess kids don't do it in my part of the world.

 

Belgium obviously, sorry pal