Saga Mirroring between consecutive episodes (1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5 ,5/6) (Warning Heavy Picture Content)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by HevyDevy, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    This is probably going to be my last thread of this nature, it's similar to the (1/4, 2/5, 3/6) mirrors thread, it may take a few days to finish. It's largely just organising old observations, so forgive me if you have already closely read all the similar threads, namely (particularly) the visual links thread. There's just so much Star Wars interworking to compile, hope someone finds it interesting :)


    TPM/AOTC

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    If you play the two films together, these scenes actually happen simultaneously, Sidious/Palpatine appearing at the same moment. Quite significantly demonstrates Palps playing both sides.


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    There are several ties between Qui-Gon (in TPM) and Anakin in later episodes. For example, Qui-Gon protects Padme in TPM, something Anakin is assigned by the Jedi to do in the next film. The irony of course being that while this attachment leads to Anakin's demise in Ep3, he was perhaps not too far from the mark in philosophising "Compassion... central to a Jedi's life. So you might say we are encouraged to love." I can almost see Qui-Gon saying this line himself.

    Also, Qui-Gon is of course watching over Anakin after death, an easter-egg put into the movies parallelling Obi-Wan watching over Luke in the OT.


    [IMG][IMG]


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    Furthermore, there is an interesting aspect in Obi-Wan's arc, going from the apprentice of the Jedi at odds with the Council (Qui-Gon in TPM), to the Master of the Jedi at odds with the Council (Anakin in ROTS).

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    I've posted this several times, but I love this link. Qui-Gon training Obi-Wan inverts Obi-Wan's training of Anakin in the next film. It seems implied that Qui-Gon's presence was sorely needed.
    Qui-Gon and Palpatine formed surrogate father figures for Anakin, where Obi-Wan is more like a rivaling brother. (I find it intriguing that Qui-Gon frees Anakin from slavery where Sidious, although offering Anakin a supposed form of liberation, will actually enlave Anakin to the darkside).
    Obi-Wan and Yoda in the OT seem to teach more like Qui-Gon (and even Palpatine).

    Dialogue links that imply this...
    - Obi-Wan (in AOTC): "This weapon is your life!" is the opposite of Luke's training - Yoda: "Your weapons, you will not need them."
    - Qui-Gon: "Feel, don't think. Trust your instincts." + Palpatine: "In time you will learn to trust your feelings." Obi-Wan in AOTC, however: "Patience. Use the force. Think."
    Later in the saga Obi-Wan gets another chance at training a Skywalker. In ANH he is now speaking like Qui-Gon: "Stretch out with your feelings!"
    - Obi-Wan also states that Anakin is not ready for an assignment in AOTC where Qui-Gon states "Obi-Wan is ready (for the trials)" in TPM.

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    Anakin leaves Shmi in TPM...
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    ... and briefly returns to Tatooine in AOTC only to lose her straight away.
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    This is part of a bigger partially "opposite journey" the main characters take in each film. Anakin is intentionally contrasted in TPM/AOTC, and begins to leave his innocence behind with the Tusken slaughter.

    TPM - Main characters travel from Naboo to Tatooine to Coruscant /
    AOTC - Main characters travel from Coruscant to Naboo to Tatooine.


    Sorta related... Padme's ship arriving on Tatooine
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    Some random stuff between TPM/AOTC...


    Anakin's journeys
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    Yellow vehicles
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    Throne rooms
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    Senate
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    Last edited by HevyDevy, Dec 9, 2014
  2. Seagoat Music and PT Section Sentinel

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 5
    Just when I thought we'd run out of ideas for mirroring threads <3
  3. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    I like the visual mirroring even if the proposed explanations go over my head at times. :)
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  4. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    TPM / AOTC (cont...)


    A perhaps subliminal political message...
    TPM
    Sio Bibble: "A communications disruption can mean only one thing; invasion!"
    AOTC
    Poggle the lesser: "Our communications have been jammed."

    ie, the good guys have become the invaders.


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    Misc...

    Padme talking to Anakin
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    One of Star Wars' many role reversals, Anakin goes from intimidated by Watto to intimidator in the next film.
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    Padawan braid
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    Two background species in this AOTC shot are from TPM
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    I still don't know if this dugg is actualy Sebulba?
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    Very contrasting link between Qui-Gon and Anakin.
    Kinda cool...
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    ... kinda creepy
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    A child (Anakin/Boba) watches his father figure fight through a cockpit window
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  5. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    Thanx for the feedback @Seagoat

    Fair enough, I could probably be a bit clearer.

    If there is anything specific you could point out I could try to explain a bit better :)
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  6. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    In this thread it's fine. I like your threads. It is just that sometimes in other threads your thoughts don't always compute for me but it's not that I think you're wrong. Rather I think it reflects we are wired differently which is in fact, wonderful. Until recently due to you I never even considered there was so much visual contrast/similarity through the Saga. I am more wired to study people/characters and emotion as opposed to situations/over all visuals. :)

    This is the kind of thing I thirst for here: civil discourse where difference can be appreciated and those involved may learn something. Thank you. [:D]
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  7. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    Last TPM / AOTC


    - In the TPM script Obi-Wan temporarily fries his saber in the water, similar to something he has ironically been calling Anakin out on in AOTC.

    - In TPM Palpatine encourages Padme to call for a "vote of no confidence" in Chancellor Valorum, knowing the opportunity for him to become Supreme Chancellor will be assured. Again in AOTC, while he claims to be holding off the vote to approve a Republic army, he has already forseen the result will give him further power, and tricks Jar Jar into proposing Palpatine, as Supreme Chancellor, receives emergency powers. Both rises in power involve a vote Palpatine, on the surface, hasn't directly incited.

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    Deleted scene - Maul backflips up a level
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    Anakin doing the same
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    Final one for these two films. "Defeated Master's saber."

    This is Qui-Gon's saber Obi-Wan kills Maul with, symbolically becoming a Jedi in the process.
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    This is the saber Obi-Wan loses to Dooku with. After Dooku beats him, he throws it to Anakin, who then proceeds to lose his arm fighting with it.
    [IMG]
    Seems kind of like an omen.
  8. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    Thanks! It's nice to hear some people are interested in this stuff. I tend to stay away from the debates you alluded to, as I'm pretty neutral on a lot of issues with the movies, and some of those less civil discussions seem a little circular.

    Yeah, some of my explanations on these threads leave something to be desired, I'm kind of obscure at times, and I think Lucas changes his mind a lot anyway, so there is a very broad grey area with Star Wars particularly.
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  9. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    I sure am. You are helping me see the Saga in a new way and it is easing the sense of jarring for me between the PT and OT somewhat. :)

    Indeed, a lot of stuff on the film boards is circular and I tire of the needless debating and character bashing.

    I understand. Plus, wiring, beliefs, and experience inform perceptions. I just wish more people understood and accepted this. Difference isn't inheriently terrible and can in fact be very enlightening.
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  10. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    Well said [face_peace].
    I'm bored at the moment, so I might as well continue.



    AOTC / ROTS

    I've noticed there are quite a few shots between these two films that establish we are in the same GFFA. There are some interesting contrasts, although I think some of the Ep2/Ep3 ones are just for a sense of consistency. Nevertheless...



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    Obi-Wan going to hyperspace
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    Both these locations involve Obi-Wan sneaking around and spying on Seperatists.
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    Talking to an R4
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    I like the contrast here... in AOTC the Senate is full, in ROTS everyone has been symbolically replaced by Palpatine who is duelling Yoda for (obviously) high stakes.
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    Opening door
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    Closing door
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    Successfull kick
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    Failed kick
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    Breaking free of capture...
    Anakin breaking Obi-Wan's cuffs
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    Obi-Wan returning the favour
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    Last edited by HevyDevy, Dec 9, 2014
  11. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    AOTC / ROTS (cont...)


    - Padme tells R2 to stay with the ship in AOTC. Anakin says it to him in ROTS; once as Anakin, once as Vader. With Vader it's because Anakin doesn't want R2 to witness what he is about to do, and R2 seems to sense something is wrong.
    I've mentioned elsewhere that Anakin and Padme swap ownership of Threepio and Artoo over the course of the trilogy... R2 ends up with Anakin, 3PO with Padme. In ANH the next generation owns them, first belonging to Leia's team, then destiny brings them to Luke.


    - In AOTC one of the Seperatist leaders says to Count Dooku "What you are proposing could be construed as treason." Palpatine plays on this with Anakin; when asked to spy on Palpatine (which is exactly what Palpatine expected them to do) Anakin remarks "That's treason!" The Jedi of course falsely end up in the same boat as the Seperatists from the Republic's/Empire's pov. It is again mentioned when Mace attempts to arrest Palaptine; "It's treason, then..." Whether this line was for a tape recorder, I'm not sure if is canon.


    - There is some reocurring dialogue possibly referring to the "shroud" of the darkside.
    In Ep2, Tyrannus reveals to Obi-Wan that a Sith controls the Senate.
    Obi-Wan: "I don't believe you."
    In Ep3, Padme responds with similar denial to Obi-Wan's revelation that Anakin and Palpatine are Sith.
    "I don't believe you! I can't."

    Mace also doesn't believe the Sith have returned in TPM. Its a repeated motif.


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    Discussing nigtmares about Shmi
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    Discussing a nightmare about Padme
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    In AOTC Anakin tells Obi-Wan (when discussing his dreams of his mother) "I'd much rather dream about Padme" which is deeply ironic.


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    War rooms
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    Missiles
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    A life/death inversion. Anakin's deceased mother brought to homestead...
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    Anakin's newborn baby brought to same homestead
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  12. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    AOTC / ROTS


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    Rematch
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    Dismember revenge
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    Obi-Wan tosses this saber to Anakin, who is dismembered fighting Dooku with it
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    Obi-Wan takes this saber from Anakin after chopping off his remaining three limbs
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    Apprentices
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    Masters
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    Droid flees before duel
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    Mas Amedda flees before duel
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    Final parallel...
    "I HATE them!"
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    "I HATE YOU!"
    [IMG]
    Obi-Wan has sadly become somewhat on the level of the Tuskens for Anakin?
  13. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    ROTS / ANH

    Quite a few of these, many of which were also noted in the Star Wars Ring Theory essay by @MikeKlimo .
    Personally I like seeing these two movies bring the saga full-circle (in release order), and cleverly invert each other in many ways, for example Palpatine starting Anakin's Sith training where Obi-Wan will start Luke's Jedi training. Anyway...



    Baby Luke
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    An eclipse symbolising Anakin smothering the good in himself
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    A contrasting yearning in Luke
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    Role reversal for the Tantive IV and the similar ep3 ship (receiving a smaller ship...)
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    and being picked up by a larger ship
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    C-3PO has the last line in ROTS
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    and the first line in ANH
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    A beginning of film space battle
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    An end of film space battle
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    "Lock s-foils in attack position"
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  14. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    ROTS / ANH (cont...)


    ROTS: Anakin joins a Sith Master (Sidious) / ANH: Luke joins a Jedi Master (Obi-Wan). Some quotes and images...

    Palpatine: "Your fulfilling your destiny Anakin." / Obi-Wan: "Your destiny lies along a different path from mine."

    Palpatine: "Of course you should, but you're not entirely sure of their intentions." / Obi-Wan: "You must do what you think is right, of course."

    Palpatine: "Become my apprentice. Learn to use the dark side of the force." / Obi-Wan: "Learn about the force, Luke!"


    Hood on
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    Hood off
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    Sidious puts a healing hand on Vader after Obi-Wan dismembers Vader and leaves him
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    Obi-Wan puts a healing hand on Luke when the tuskens knock him out, the beginning of a second chance at training a Skywalker
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    Recruiting a Skywalker with point of view truths
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    A Tusken cry is heard in the background of these two moments
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    Bad droid
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    Good droids
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    Intimidated mouse-droids
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    R2 being kicked
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    Obi-Wan looking away as Anakin is immolated
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    Luke looking away from the charred remains of Owen and Beru
    [IMG]
  15. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    ROTS / ANH (cont...)


    [IMG]
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    - Obi-Wan: "Hello there!" (To Grievous in ROTS / to R2 in ANH)

    - Obi-Wan: "So uncivilised." / "An elegant weapon, for a more civilised age."

    - Obi-Wan: "Always on the move." / "Quickly, they're on the move!"


    - Anakin (ROTS) / Han (ANH): "This is where the fun begins!"


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    Commlinks
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    Deathstar creation and destruction at each film's end
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    R2 hiding as droids mess up the Jedi fighters
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    R2 hiding as Tuskens steal from Luke's speeder
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    [IMG]

    Also in the above ROTS scene the droids have this exchange...
    "What's that?"
    "That's nothing. Get back to work!"
    In ANH, Obi-Wan distracts two stormtroopers while deactivating the tractor beam, and they say the same thing...
    "What's that?"
    "That's nothing. Don't worry about it."



    Anakin (ROTS)
    [IMG]
    Vader (ANH)
    [IMG]
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  16. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    ROTS /ANH (cont...)


    Anakin is defeated by Obi-Wan in ROTS / Obi-Wan lets Vader kill him in ANH.
    Both duels happen after Obi-Wan stealthily stows away on a ship; in a cupboard on Padme's ship in ROTS, and in the secret compartments of the Millenium Falcon in ANH.

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    ROTS: Anakin force-chokes Padme until Obi-Wan commands: "Let her go, Anakin. Let her go!"
    ANH: Vader force-chokes Motti until Tarkin commands: "Enough of this. Release him!"

    I find it interesting how much more personal Anakin's first force-choke is. It really shows how far he has fallen.

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    Padme (on regaining consciousness): "Obi-Wan."
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    Luke (on regaining consciousness): "Ben? Boy am I glad to see you!"
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    Obi-Wan takes Anakin's saber to pass down to Luke in the next film
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    [IMG]
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  17. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    ROTS / ANH (cont...)



    (A quick trivial one; Vader shoots R2 on Luke's X-wing in ANH, his buddy from the prequels)

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    Padme: "Please, ask him to stop the fighting and let diplomacy resume!"
    Anakin: "Don't ask me to do that! Make a motion in the Senate where that kind of a request belongs." (Also, moments earlier: "And you're sounding like a Seperatist!")
    [IMG]
    Leia: "I'm a member of the Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan..."
    Vader: "You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! Take her away!"
    [IMG]
    Of course, he is pointing at his wife in ROTS and his daughter in ANH.


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    Wires used while rescuing Palpatine
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    Wires used while rescuing Leia
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    Troops spectating their leaders fight Obi-Wan
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    Twin moons - at the twilight of the Republic - invert ROTS's and ANH's binary sunsets (which represent a new beginning, hope and destiny)
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    [IMG]
    [IMG]
  18. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    ANH / ESB


    The films start with Star Destroyers.
    Rebel Tantive IV going into hangar
    [IMG]
    Imperial probes coming out of hangar
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    Good droids in a pod hiding from Empire
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    Bad droid in a pod searching for Rebels
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    Ep4 opens on a desert planet / Ep5 opens on an ice planet
    Interestingly, in the OT, in the two movies that feature Tatooine, the Rebels win at the climax. ESB is the only film of the current six not to feature Tatooine, and the Rebels lose.


    There are seemingly quite a few parallels between the ice planet and (opposite) desert planet in these two films.

    (ANH) Threepio: "What a desolate place this is." / (ESB) Han: "There isn't enough life on this icecube to spill a space cruiser."

    (ANH) Threepio: "I've got to rest before I fall apart. My joints are almost frozen." / (ESB) Threepio: "You must come along now Artoo. There's really nothing more we can do. And my joints are freezing up!"

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    After using binoculars Luke is attacked and knocked out by Tuskens, before being dragged along the ground by them
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    After using binoculars Luke is attacked and knocked out by the Wampa, before being dragged along the ground by it
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    Obi-Wan rescues Luke
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    After Luke speaks with Obi-Wan's force-ghost, Han appears (arguably guided by the force) and rescues Luke
    [IMG]
    Last edited by HevyDevy, Dec 13, 2014
  19. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    ANH / ESB (cont...)


    Two more on the above desert/snow parallels;
    Shots from after Luke regains consciousness
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    R2 scanning detecting Tuskens
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    R2 scanning but can't find Han or Luke
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    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Some misc. stuff...


    Leia's silent introduction in each film
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    Millenium Falcon
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    Rebel control rooms
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    Luke's X-wing
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    Falcon in asteroids
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    Another Falcon cockpit shot
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    Creature that drags Luke underwater the lets him go
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    Creature that drags Artoo underwater then lets him go
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    Stormtroopers advance through smoke
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    [IMG]
  20. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    ANH/ ESB (cont...)


    Some misc. dialogue links:

    -
    ANH
    Luke: "I guess you're too little to run away on me if I take this off..."
    ESB
    Yoda: "Size matters not."

    -
    ANH
    Threepio: "R2-D2, where are you?"
    ESB
    Luke: "R2! Where are you?"

    -
    ANH
    Threepio: "It's like a second language to me. I am fluent in...
    Owen: "Alright, shut up. I'll take this one."
    Threepio: "Shutting up sir."
    ESB
    Threepio: "The probability of surviving a direct attack on..."
    Leia: "Shut up!"

    -
    ANH
    Tarkin: "Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battlestation."
    ESB
    Luke: "I won't fail you. I'm not afraid."
    Yoda: "You will be."

    and Yoda (TPM): "Fear is the path to darkside."

    -
    ANH
    Han: "She's fast enough for you old man."
    ESB
    Lando: "That ship has saved my life dozens of times, she's the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy!"

    Similarly, Han and Lando are both dismissive with 3PO...
    Threepio: "Hello sir." *Han rolls eyes*
    [IMG]
    Threepio: "I am C-3PO, human/cyborg relations. My services..." *Lando walks away* "...Well really!"
    [IMG]


    -
    ANH
    Tarkin: "The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion.
    ESB
    Emperor: "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."

    -
    ANH
    Leia: "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"
    Han: "Nice."
    ESB
    Leia: "Would it help if I got out and pushed?"
    Han: "It might!"

    -
    ANH
    R2 gets shot.
    Threepio: "You must repair him. If any of my circuits or gears will help I'll gladly donate them."
    ESB
    3PO gets shot.
    Threepio: "Well at least you're in one piece. Look what happened to me!"

    -
    ANH
    Tarkin: "Surely he must be dead by now."
    ...
    Vader: "Obi-Wan is here. The force is with him."
    ESB:
    Vader: "No captain. They're alive."

    and

    ANH
    Tarkin: "If he is here, then he must not be allowed to escape."
    Vader: "Escape is not his plan. I must face him alone."
    ESB
    Vader: "There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you."
    ROTJ
    Obi-Wan: "You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again."
  21. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    (Thanx for the likes @Iron_lord!) ...

    ANH / ESB (cont...)



    R2 displaying the tractor beam control location, needed for the Millenium Falcon to escape the Deathstar
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    R2 reading that the Falcon's hyperdive is deactivated, which needs to be activated for the Millenium Falcon to escape Cloud City
    [IMG]


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    Some similarities in Obi-Wan's/Yoda's training of Luke:


    Qui-Gon: "Feel, don't think. Use your instincts."
    ...
    Obi-Wan: "Stretch out with your feelings!"
    ...
    Yoda: "The stone. Feel it."
    ...
    Yoda: "You must feel the force around you!"


    Obi-Wan: "The force is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together."
    ...
    Yoda: "Life creates it. Makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us... and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."


    Luke (to Obi-Wan): "I want to learn the ways of the force and become a Jedi like my father."
    ...
    Yoda: "Why wish you become Jedi?"
    Luke: "Mostly because of my father I guess."


    Obi-Wan and Yoda speak fondly of Anakin;
    Obi-Wan: He was the best starpilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I understand you have become quite a good pilot yourself. And he was a good friend."
    ...
    Yoda: "Ah! Father... powerful Jedi was he. Mmm... powerful Jedi."


    Obi-Wan: "You can't win. But there are alternatives to fighting."
    ...
    Yoda: "A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defence. Never for attack."


    Obi-Wan: "Run Luke!"
    ...
    Yoda (on Luke's back): "Yes... run!"


    Obi-Wan: "A Jedi can feel the force flowing through him."
    ...
    Yoda: "A Jedi's strength flows from the force."



    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    More misc. ANH/ESB parallels...


    [IMG]
    [IMG]



    "Don't shoot!"
    [IMG]
    "Terribly sorry... didn't mean to intrude... no please don't get up... no!"
    [IMG]



    Malfunctions
    [IMG]
    [IMG]



    Anger at Obi-Wan being killed by Vader
    [IMG]
    Anger at Vader's taunt "You are beaten. It is useless to resist. Don't let yourself be destroyed as Obi-Wan did!"
    [IMG]



    -
    Luke crash-landing twice in ESB (once in his snow-speeder in snow, once in his X-wing in water) has much more relevance when contrasting it to his victory piloting against the Deathstar in the previous movie.


    -
    ANH
    Threepio: "If you won't be needing me I'll power down for a while."
    ESB
    Threepio: "Surrender is a perfectly acceptable strategy under extreme circumstances. The Empire may be gracious enough to..." *Leia switches him off*
    Han: "Thank you!"


    -
    ANH
    Obi-Wan: "Your destiny lies along a different path than mine."
    ESB
    Vader: "Your destiny lies with me Skywalker. Obi-Wan knew this to be true."


    -
    ANH
    Obi-Wan: "You can't win Darth. If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possible imagine."

    ESB
    Vader: "He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him."
    ...
    Obi-Wan: "If you face Vader, you must do it alone. I cannot interfere."
  22. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    Two more posts on ANH / ESB then I'm done for tonight.



    Vader captures Leia in both films, and tortures Han in ESB solely to lure Luke
    [IMG]
    [IMG]

    [IMG]
    [IMG]

    Vader: "Her resistance to the mind-probe is considerable. It will be some time before we can extract any information from her."
    ...
    Han: "They never even asked me any questions."


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Wedge: "Look at the size of that thing!"
    [IMG]
    Wedge: "Wah! That got him!"
    [IMG]


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Vader seems to choke many people regardless of if they are good or bad, and seems to find Seperatists, Rebels, and Imperials indiscriminantly expendable.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    There is a lot of good characterisation and character development in these two films, particularly when watching them in release order. Vader goes from a henchman with an interesting (yet mysterious) connection to Obi-Wan and the force, to a more complex, perhaps more intimidating evil than his ANH incarnation. Luke's general OT character growth is arguably the best characterisation payoff of all six films. Empire Strikes Back being a very key part of this, it is largely our look into why Luke, by ROTJ, is so different than in ANH.


    Some observations regarding Han's arc...

    Han, of course, makes a progression from a selfish smuggler to a Rebel hero.

    The price on Han's head is kind of a running thread in the three original films. He is progressively putting off paying Jabba back over the trilogy, and this is actually only resolved when Jabba is killed in ROTJ. It's kind of ironic that he keeps being delayed from leaving the Rebellion (as he and Leia argue about at the start of ESB), then circumstances lead him to be frozen in carbonite, which actually keeps him with the Rebels when he is released from hibernation.

    Where Luke actually seems more interested in Leia than Han is in ANH (Han only really joking about it to rile Luke up "Still, she's got a lot of spirit. I dunno, do you think a princess and a guy like me..." "No.") Han of course actually ends up with Leia, which is strongly established in ESB, and is a fairly major part of his character arc. Perhaps a "destined" element of ESB, Han only ends up spending the movie with Leia because the passage (at the Hoth base) to her transport is blocked, and he needs to get her off Hoth instead. This seems to be where he first shows real loyalty to Leia, quite different to in ANH IMO ("Why are you still here?" "Don't worry, I'll leave, but first I've got to get you to your ship."


    There is some potential mirroring between these "goodbyes" between Luke and Han in ANH and ESB.

    In ANH, Han appears to have made his decision to leave, and Luke is angry that he is abandoning them. Han doesn't seem to have changed his mind, but genuinely wishes Luke well.
    "Hey, Luke... may the force be with you."
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    Han of course later saves the day by coming back at the end of the battle and giving Luke the chance to destroy the Deathstar, confirming his position as a true good guy, and Luke's friend, for the rest of the series.

    In ESB, while they part on better terms (than the ANH scene pictured above) they actually don't see each other again until ROTJ, as Han is captured and put in carbonite.
    [IMG]
    [IMG]

    Han seems to forebodingly sense a dark undertone to the parting, as he makes a concerned expression after Luke walks away. This is the last time they will speak before Luke (as an almost fully-fledged Jedi) comes back to rescue him.
    [IMG]

    The scenes also significantly mirror Anakin and Obi-Wan's farewell in ROTS (note the similar expression from Han and Anakin after Luke/Obi-Wan leave). Where Han and Luke will not meet again until Luke is "different", Obi-Wan and Anakin's next encounter after this goodbye will be after Anakin has turned, and they are now mortal enemies.
    [IMG]
    Last edited by HevyDevy, Dec 13, 2014
  23. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    One last ANH / ESB mirror...

    The Millenium Falcon fleeing Imperials on Tatooine (ANH) / The Millenium Falcon fleeing Imperials on Hoth (ESB)

    "Stop that ship!"
    [IMG]
    [IMG]


    [IMG]
    [IMG]


    [IMG]
    [IMG]


    [IMG]
    [IMG]


    Successfull hyperspace
    [IMG]
    Failed hyperspace (I wish I could post the sound :p)
    [IMG]


    The MF crew in ESB obviously struggle with the broken hyperdrive for the whole movie, and it is bittersweet when it finally works at the end.
    [IMG]
    Last edited by HevyDevy, Dec 13, 2014
  24. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    Mirrors between this pair (ESB / ROTJ) seem a little more obscure, as the two films were really both made as two halves of a sequel to ANH, and don't technically parallel as much as many of the other combinations of SW films (IMO). Nevertheless...



    R2 scans for Luke and Han lost on Hoth, C-3PO speaks sympathetically to Leia
    [IMG]
    R2 scans for Leia on Endor, C-3PO speaks sympathetically to Luke and Han
    [IMG]


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Boba about to shoot, but stops because of Vader
    [IMG]
    Boba about to shoot, but stops because of Jabba (notice both times he is actually aiming at Leia and Chewie)
    [IMG]


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Setting course to Dagobah from Hoth
    [IMG]
    Setting course to Dagobah from Tatooine
    [IMG]


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Luke fails to raise the X-wing out of the swamp
    [IMG]
    Luke easily floats Threepio :p
    [IMG]
    Perhaps coincidentally, Threepio states before this "They didn't believe me, just as I said they wouldn't." When Yoda lifts the X-wing out of the swamp Luke says "I don't believe it!" Yoda: "That is why you fail."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Another kind of funny one. When Vader goes back on his word, the Empire takes control of Bespin. Panicked fleeing from citizens.
    [IMG]
    When Vader redeems himself and kills the Emperor the tide is turning, and the Imperials are fleeing the DS2.
    [IMG]
  25. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    ESB / ROTJ (cont...)
    (btw, I'd love to hear others input, any of the many relevant observations I've probably missed)

    -
    ESB
    Vader (after killing Needa): "Apology accepted Captain Needa."
    ROTJ
    Vader: "I hope so commander, for your sake. The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am."


    -
    An obvious one...

    Han saves Luke's skin in ANH and ESB (helping Luke destroy the Deathstar, and rescuing Luke on Hoth). In ROTJ however, Luke is practically a Jedi and powerfully almost single handedly rescues Han from Jabba.
    ESB
    Han: "That's two you owe me Junior."
    ROTJ
    Han: Thanks for coming back for me. Now I owe you one!"

    Luke starting to write his own destiny is part of his character growth, but of course on the flipside this power brings him dangerously close to the darkside. Also, as I'm sure most people notice, there are a lot of progressive role-reversals in the six current movies.


    -
    ESB
    Vader: "You are free to use any means necessary, but I want them alive. No disintegrations!"
    ROTJ
    "We have been without an interpreter since our master got angry with our last one and disintegrated him."


    -
    ANH
    Luke: "I want to learn the ways of the force and become a Jedi like my father."
    ESB
    Yoda: "Why wish you become Jedi?"
    Luke: "Well, mostly because of my father, I guess."
    ROTJ
    Luke: "You've failed your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."


    -
    ESB
    Obi-Wan: "That boy is our last hope."
    Yoda: "No, there is another."
    ROTJ
    Leia: "I know. Somehow... I've always known."


    -
    I've noticed the "up" bookends (TPM and ROTJ) feature the good guys working with primitive races (Gungans and Ewoks), where there seem to be more conflicts in the middle movies, eg/ Tusken slaughter in AOTC, many Geonosians killed in AOTC, Tuskens fighting with Luke in ANH, Luke attacked by the Wampa in ESB, Ugnaughts scrapping Threepio in ESB,etc. Wonder if it is coincidence.


    -
    Threepio cowardly considers surrendering to the Empire in ESB before he is switched off by Leia. In ROTJ, he pretends to surrender to the Endor troops to help initiate the Ewok attack.


    -
    Piloting the Millenium Falcon in ESB, Han tactically moves closer to the Star Destroyer and lands on it, powering down. Piloting the same ship in ROTJ, Lando tactically engages the Star Destroyers point-blank to buy time.


    -
    An obvious one, but a classic...
    ESB
    Leia:"I love you."
    Han: "I know."
    ROTJ
    Han:"I love you."
    Leia: "I know."


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    At-At cockpit
    [IMG]
    At-St cockpit
    [IMG]


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Force sensing...

    ESB
    Vader: "Luke"
    [IMG]
    Luke: "Father"
    [IMG]
    ROTJ
    [IMG]
    "I'm endangering the mission, I shouldn't have come."
    [IMG]


    ESB
    Emperor: "There is a great disturbance in the force."
    Vader: "I have felt it."
    ROTJ
    Vader: "My son is with them."
    Emperor:"Are you sure?"
    Vader: "I have felt him, my Master."
    Emperor: "Strange that I have not."

    Palpatine's failure to sense Luke, and sense the conflict in Vader, is a major reason for his downfall.


    ROTJ
    Emperor: "And now I sense you wish to continue your search for young Skywalker."
    ROTJ
    Vader: "Indeed you are powerful, as the Emperor has forseen."
    ROTJ
    Emperor: "His compassion for you will be his undoing."

    Vader at first sees further confirmation of the Emperor's power due to the Emperor's foresight about Luke. But Luke's compassion proves to be the Sith's undoing instead.

    ESB
    Emperor: "He could destroy us."
    ESB
    Vader: "You can destroy the Emperor, he has forseen it."

    Love that Luke destroys them "from within" Anakin.
    Last edited by HevyDevy, Dec 19, 2014