Saga Padme/Obi-Wan Betrayal

In Revenge of the Sith, there is the implication that Anakin believes Padme and Obi-Wan have betrayed him, not only by turning against him but by also having an affair- at least that's what I always understood, feel free to correct me.

My question is, did Anakin/Vader always think this until his death? I mean, after a certain point it wouldn't matter anymore, but I was just curious as to what everyone else thought, and if it was ever re-addressed in any other SW material.

 

It's more heavily implied in the ROTS novel. Personally, I prefer to think it's not an issue at all. It's a needless complication to the situation, and I'm glad it was largely written out of the movie.

 

Anakin wound up concluding that there was no affair in the novel though.

 

That is interesting because I am reading the ROTS novel right now, but I'm still very early on, but I just watched the movie and it seemed like at Mustafar he was accusing them.

 

Not sure if it was recorded, but that scene also initially included the line "What have you been doing with her?" (Anakin to Obi-Wan)

So even that far, he seemed to suspect something in the novel version

 

Some people were even hoping for a very mild implied ''love triangle'' like in the OT.

 

"You brought him here to kill me" seemed to be his grievance.

Possibly also "You're with the Jedi - who are traitors - making you a traitor"



In post-ROTS material (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader) - there was a certain amount of anger at Padme for not listening to him - but he thinks that, had Obi-Wan not come at that moment - he could have convinced Padme of the necessity of his actions.

And of course in the movie he's really upset at having killed Padme - which suggests that to him, her "betrayal" was not completely unforgivable.

That phrasing was used in the junior novel rather than the adult one.

 

I assumed a lot of it had to do with the poisoning Palpatine had done to Anakin throughout the film. The Dark lord was slowly twisting Anakin's mind and changing his point of view on his life. He turned against the Jedi and probably thought Obi Wan was there for revenge. During their final scene together, Padme had just left Anakin so he felt betrayed by the love of his life.

Anakin was incredibly hurt and scared. After ROTS I'm sure Vader reflected from time to time but it would probably just fill him with regret and anger.

 

So can somebody please explain this image?

 

From my own personal experience Europeans don't greet each other that "passionately", i.e. holding each other like that and with eyes closed.

It's usually a fast and lukewarm gesture.

 

I saw it in ROTS upon first viewing, and to this day I've never read the novelization. I know certain parts are cut, but enough is there in the movie to see it. His jealousy of Obi-Wan is undeniable, I think.

I think, by the time of ROTJ, Vader has let bygones be bygones. It just doesn't matter anymore. It was all so long ago, and he looks back on it with a sort of bittersweet nostalgia more than anything. In his last moments, his faith is restored, and all is forgiven.

 

I hardly believe there was an actual affair, but I think that Anakin was paranoid enough to believe there was one. I'm pretty sure the thought was crossing his mind, although maybe in his heart he knew it wasn't true.

Even with his delusional beliefs, I think that Vader/Anakin would always have that weird infatuation/obsession with Padme? Like, it's just part of his character by this point. Maybe it's not true love, per se, but I don't think he ever got over her at all - in the Darth Vader comics he spends quite a long time brooding over her, especially with Luke to remind him of her. I bet at a point he ended up redirecting all the resentment at her supposed "betrayal" towards self-loathing or at least using it to fuel his hatred of Obi-Wan ("you turned her against me!").

 

Well regardless if the intention was to imply or have Anakin "believe" there was something going on there, it really doesn't matter.

If your wife takes sides with another man there will be an element/feeling of betrayal. If you subscribe to the idea that a marriage is two becoming one spiritual unit and the symbolism of a marriage in different earth cultures and religions, then one side going against the other or siding, either ideologically, sentimentally or physically with another person/group will be considered a betrayal.

At the same time. Anakin is a Jedi and as such can, when he becomes calm, listen to the Force. By using the force he can "feel" and "search his feelings" to discover the truth in something. So I'm inclined to believe that at some point it really makes no difference when; at some point he was able to feel his way to knowing that Padme never betrayed him by loving Obiwan beyond having a good friendship. But she did betray him as her husband by taking sides with his enemies. I would think that at the end Anakin did forgive her and let go of his feelings so he was able to become one with the Force as seen by him becoming a force ghost.

Hope this makes sense.

 

Interesting idea, but, I think he was so much into himself he was not having rational thoughts. If you really feel you are all powerful, you really do not need anyone -- even that he had Padme with her twin children still unborn. If you are all powerful, a family limits your power to control weaker people. As a all powerful person having a all powerful family is a oxymoron if you yourself feel you are all powerful. As a family is sharing what little power the family unit has between themselves.

Nope: I just say him at that time with power lust and blood lust.

 

That's correct. Anakin was afraid of a conspiration, not an affair or romantic betrayal.

You're reading too much from that frame. It's just a normal greeting between friends, as the original scene shows.

 

I haven't read the novelization--so I might be completely off-base here--but I didn't think the implication of Anakin believing Padmé and Obi-Wan were having an affair came only in the Mustafar scene.

Earlier in the film, when Anakin has another premonition, he sees Padmé giving birth again, but now sees Obi-Wan standing over her. Anakin then stops staring at his datapad, looks suspiciously towards Padmé, and asks, with a not exactly casual curiosity, "Obi-Wan's been here, hasn't he?" Now, I don't believe the implication is necessarily as far as Obi-Wan being the father or something, but I could see the seeds of that being planted there for another cut of the film where a perceived is a bigger component of Anakin's fall. After all, at that point in the film, he has no reason to believe Obi-Wan knows of his marriage to Padmé or why he'd be at her birth.

 

He sees Obi-Wan in his vision and is holding Obi-Wan's datapad, which makes him ask if he had been there.

 

Yes, that's a normal greeting between friends. Indeed, I see the way they greet each other in that image like a kind greeting between a brother and a sister.
Personally, I always liked to consider Obi-Wan and Padme relationship as a brother-sister relation

 

Yup, the implication is definitely there. I think when Obi-Wan shows up at Mustafar, Anakin suspects he has been betrayed all around.

 

You know, I don't think it even mattered to Anakin what "kind" of betrayal, whether a plot to kill him or an affair. Everything was happening so fast, I don't think he had really concluded what Obi-Wan and Padme were doing behind his back, just that they were doing it and he didn't like it - he's too busy panicking and there are probably all kinds of paranoid delusions running around in his mind (see: the Jedi Order). Betrayal is betrayal and as far as betrayal goes, both suspicions are pretty egregious, so I think he would've acted the same in both situations. He was likely equally as worried about an affair as a plot (I mean, if you think a loved one is plotting your death, then I think you should worry about whether they truly love you or not). But that's just my interpretation.

 

There was stuff in the novel I am pretty sure was cut from the film, if it was ever there to begin with. Sidious did make a few suggestive comments to the effect that Obi-Wan and Padme were having an affair but never outright said they were... just lead novel-Anakin to reach that conclusion himself. He felt pretty betrayed in general and Sidious saw no harm in twisting the knife and making it a personal betrayal too.