Senate Russia: its impact on the world, and its future

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    So, with Romney basically calling for a return to the Cold War, and Putin re-solidifying control as well as blocking the West from intervening in Syria, it looks like Russia will be in the news for some time to come. Russia has also finally joined the World Trade Organization.

    What ways could Russia be better integrated with Europe and the United States? How can we encourage friendlier relations?
  2. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Well, quit with the Cold War rhetoric from both sides. Putin uses it as a way of masking his inadequacies as a leader, though. I don't think the WTO join will create anything substantive in terms of internal change, though-God knows It hasn't in China. Although Russians have seem to found their collective voices in the last couple years; still, IMO, change needs to come from within.
    Darth-Ghost likes this.
  3. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    On that note, the more things change, the more they stay the same:

    I suspect another reason Cold War rhetoric works so well in Russia is there's a certain segment of the population whose fate has worsened in the past twenty years, and they're nostalgic.
  4. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    lol. I assume he'll be purging his officer corps and then begging the Allies for help when Germany invades, then?
  5. Debo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2001
    star 5
    That definitely seems to be the case. Quite recently Stalin scored high in a poll about the greatest Russians of all time. Many Russians feel that Stalin, like some stern but compassionate landlord, had to apply tough love to help Russia become a superpower--and this of course explains away all the purges, the murders, the paranoia. More importantly perhaps, they feel that Stalin was "one of the people": straightforward, incorruptible, humble.
  6. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Technically the Stalinist era was mostly pre-Cold War (which started 1945-1947). I'm not sure Russians are keen on a Cold War so much as being an economic power. The Russian Federation is still miles behind the USSR in those terms alone.
  7. TheShinyLightsaber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    ie. the members of the Party that can't pillage the population anymore, or at least, as effectively as communism made it for them?
  8. TheShinyLightsaber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    The USSR never was an economic power. If we look at the living conditions of the populace, besides party members (for which there were few), the average person had problems finding a pair of shoes to buy, a piece of meat a month was a splurge, and simply surviving. They built lots of military crap, and the populace starved. Surviving isn't thriving. Capitalism (for how little they have) has made Russia the best it was since the Bolshevik Rev.
    Last edited by TheShinyLightsaber, Sep 3, 2012
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  9. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    What you are talking about is the distribution of wealth across the populace. It's measured in the GINI coefficient. The size of one's economy has nothing to do with how many people reap the benefits thereof. It's a simple measure of how much economic activity there is. By GDP, the Soviet Union had the second largest economy in the world throughout much of the 1970s, and were prominent even before. They certainly were an economic power.
  10. TheShinyLightsaber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    LoL. Economic power? like I said, I don't care what you produce if it is useless. Build 500k banana statues, and they cost a lot, but they are still banana statues. It's like WWII prosperity...oops, didn't exist, rationed meat, rationed butter, a life of austerity.

    What matters is the prosperity of the society + what they can sell afterwards.

    Economic powers, don't starve.
  11. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    1. Income inequality across the former Soviet Union-- Central Asia, Ukraine, etc. moreso than Russia-- is worse than it was during the Soviet period. More people were employed and the state guaranteed some amount of security. Once public services began to be cut (or privatized in extremely corrupt manners), more people experienced hardship. Whatever the faults with the Soviet system-- there were plenty-- I wouldn't dismiss the nostalgia for it as completely unwarranted.

    2. Your "starve" remark is empty rhetoric. Past the 1950's, starvation was not really a problem compared to other developed countries. That was due to imports, but many capitalist economies are net importers of food. Millions of Americans go hungry, yet the United States is the largest producer of food in human history and could feed a good chunk of the world's population by itself.
    Last edited by Darth_Guy, Sep 3, 2012
  12. TheShinyLightsaber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    Well they could purchase and eat the food, but they would have to offer something in trade (pay) for that food.
  13. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I see you've read the Wikipedia version of The Wealth of Nations.
    Last edited by Darth_Guy, Sep 3, 2012
  14. TheShinyLightsaber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    Now that you mention it, I might have a really old copy of that in a box somewhere.

    Add it to the "to read" list.
  15. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    So basically, the only impact Russia has on the world is that it likes to veto stuff that America supports at the Security Council, and it sells lots of cheap weapons to Third World countries. Oh yeah, and we have to pay them in order to keep their nuclear arsenal secure.

    /topic?
  16. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Also threatens its neighbors (Europe) with freezing to death by restricting energy exports, and has massive domestic issues. :p
  17. TheShinyLightsaber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    Do you think this is good or bad?
  18. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    I'm not quite sure. Can I use a lifeline?
  19. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Oh for God's sake welcome to a book fundamental to understanding political economy. Better yet, welcome to the 21st century!

    The Soviet Union produced one of the most useless economic systems ever in the history of mankind. They built crap cars, polluted the hell out of the environment, and a loaf of bread had an out of sight price.

    They built a bunch of crap no one wanted and had extreme scarcity of things people did want.

    Brilliant. That's what a 5 year plan gets you.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Sep 10, 2012
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  20. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    With the U.S. dollar losing its value at such a rapid pace, soon we'll be paying a lot for loaves of bread!
  21. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    But for different reasons than the Soviets were. The Soviets sucked at allocating the right stuff people wanted and excelled at making surpluses of things not as much in demand.

    But as long as the party wanted it.

    Small communism can and does work(ask the Swiss communes) but not command collectivism like the Soviets.
  22. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Does anyone know if Putin will be running for another political office at the end of this presidential term? Will he seek another term as President, or Prime Minister, or something else? He's only 61, so he could still be around for a while. And as the crisis in Syria shows, and the deteriorating rights of gays in Russia shows, he's not exactly getting better.
  23. Champion of the Force Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    He's only a little over a year into his current term which lasts for 6 years, so he's good until 2018. And he's able to run again for another term as per the Russian constitution (can serve any number of terms, but no more than 2 consecutive terms at any one time) which could take him to 2024 if he was keen (he'll be 72 by then).

    I can't see him returning to the Prime Minister-ship - his 4 year time there (2008-2012) struck me more as a holding position until he could legally run for the Presidency again.
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  24. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Do you think Russia is going to change in any meaningful way while Putin is still president? He really is claiming the country as his own. We might as well call it "Putin Russia," like how the Saud family named their entire country after themselves :p But I wonder, there was already backlash at his re-election, could his rule actually weaken even if he never softens his own attitudes? Could he face a popular uprising?
  25. Champion of the Force Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    I don't pretend to know much of Russian internal affairs, but Putin doesn't strike me as the type to change his spots very much. As you say there was heightened backlash at his last election which saw his poll numbers drop lower than anticipated. I could see an internal group of supporters insisting on a retirement plan if Putin is deemed to be growing too unpopular (assuming there is anyone behind the scenes who has that punch - maybe not).

    As for a popular uprising, I can't see that happening, but then again the Berlin Wall and the collapse of Communism was quite sudden and not fully expected as well so who knows. :p
    Summer Dreamer likes this.