Lit How should darksiders be handled post ST?

For me I want to stop seeing them apart of some Empire. If some variation of Imperials still exists after the ST is done, their shouldn't be anymore darksiders apart of them.

Hopefully we see no Sith coming back. Best to keep exploring the Sith pre-RoTJ.

I want to see more of darksiders having lesser power and not motivated to try to rule the galaxy.

For example, a post-ST one that runs a criminal group (pirates?). A dark jedi that doesn't dream of wiping out the Republic but focused on smaller tasks.

Another idea is to create another darkside faction, but one that is quite different from the Imperial style one.

While I disliked we got a Lost Tribe of Sith in the EU, the idea of a civilization that lost contact with the galaxy, influenced by the darkside could work in the new continuity. They could have ancient sith survivor roots, but who's culture has evolved to a non-Sith identity. Not having large armies of force wielders, just a small amount of darksiders.

Wielding various types of weapons including a few ancient sith lightsabers. Also lacking the power/strength the Sith and Snoke and Co had, with inferior technology. Created not to be another big threat to the galaxy like the Sith were, but just another player.

So what are your thoughts on the future of darksiders after the ST is over?

 

I'd like to see different sects established that aren't necessarily the Sith, groups that have their own unique philosophy that's more morally challenging than what the Sith were shown throughout the canon. I'd also prefer it if there was a clear separation between the Darksiders and whatever militant antagonistic army they come up with, so that it's no longer just derivatives of Vader/Palpatine.

 

Set Harth is a pretty good Legends example of dark side motive diversity. He doesn't care about the Jedi-Sith conflict the only real thing he shares with the Sith is a desire to live forever.

Other than that he just likes to party.

So post-ST hedonistic dark Jedi that don't wanna die but aren't afraid to hurt people might make interesting villains.

 

Man I'm not even sure yet how dark siders are going to be handled within the ST yet...

 

Yeah, at this point, I'm more concerned about them either establishing how Snoke and the KoR are different from Sith (as was originally claimed) or just explicitly doing away with that except in name (as I suspect Snoke may be an ancient Sith).

Or ideally, both.

 

I think the Sith will be back...there will always be Force sensitives and dark emotions...mix the 2 and throw in a Sith Holocron and you have a new Sith Order.

 

Yeah, right now, even though it's stated that the Knights of Ren are not Sith... functionally, they are, and as we know literally nothing about them, there's no way to know exactly how they're supposed to be different.

Especially because in the deleted scene when Snoke talks to Kylo Ren and tells him that he's different from the Sith because he came from the light side... uh, that's not exactly unique to Kylo Ren or unheard of for the Sith. Two of the four movie Sith fit that description.

 

Some ways they could use dark siders in the future:

* Seers/oracles that advice the warlord/pirate prince/mercenary leader that is ravaging/plundering across systems. Completely lack any kind of combat abilities.

* Wuxia bad guy martial artists, that unlike the Sith don't know things like TK and don’t use lightsabre.

* Mystical assassins that are masters of stealth and killing from the shadows but are not much of a physical threat if they have to fight in the light and/or attack from the front.

* The witch-aristocracy of a magocracy world/confederation who are all squishy wizard but they are protected by competent elite bodyguards.

Why?

 

I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't mind the Sith making a return, because at the end of the day- they're perfect villains. I feel like trying to make darkside villains often boils down to just "How are these guys different from the Sith?", and the answer is "They really aren't".

It's why I'm not so hard on the Vong. Aside from the force immunity, they were pretty cool.

 

If Kylo Ren isn't supposed to be a Sith (or trying to be a Sith), why does the movie emphasize so much that he wants to emulate Vader and finish his work? Kylo needs to do more do differentiate himself from Vader if he's not trying to be a Sith. Something like, "I admire my grandfather, but I'm different from the Sith for (whatever reasons)".

As it is, we have this bizarre contradiction where Kylo is supposed to be trying to emulate Vader as much as he can, but the audience is told by the filmmakers that Kylo's not a Sith or trying to be one, and does not seem to be trying to recreate them.

 

I think the best case in the Old EU of darksiders who weren't Sith or Sith-copies were the Sorcerers of Rhand.

They didn't want to rule. They wanted to speed up the ultimate destruction of everything. In a political sense, they'd be violent anarchists and infiltrators.

That would be interesting to see... and be different, while still seeming like Star Wars.

"Only power is real, and the only real power is the power to destroy. Existence is fleeting. Destruction is eternal."




What are some other Legends darksiders, besides the Sorcerers of Rhand and the already-mentioned Set Harth, that aren't Sith copies and would make a good fit in the new EU?

Maybe another could be Darksiders who don't want to dominate existing life... but just rule over as God-Emperor over life that they create?

There was also Darth Wyyrlok's idea of converting everyone in the galaxy to become followers of the dark side.

Or perhaps a Darksider who could actually bring eternal life and prosperity to the galaxy, actually make the galaxy a better place... but in return, demanded to be treated as a God-Emperor.

In contrast to an Emperor, there could also be a dark-side Liberator... wanting to free the galaxy from the corrupt rule of the Republic... but doesn't want to rule, or anyone to rule. But not interested in destruction, like the Sorcerers of Rhand.

It would also be interesting if something like the Fel Empire with its Imperial Knights ever had to go to war with the Republic/Jedi without the Sith being involved... though they aren't darksiders.

(The Dathomir Witches in canon just aren't interesting to me... an isolated tribe that keeps to themselves, doing things that don't feel like Star Wars)

 

That was an odd part of TFA for me as well, he's trying to emulate his grandfather yet doesn't call himself a Sith? It was so unclear. Does he think he can do better? Are there any philosophical or tactical differences that make the distinction worth while?

Really TFA should have done a better job explaining that.

 

It is a bit weird. I would imagine they're planning on elucidation down the line, however.

I'd be pretty pleased if Snoke turned around at the end of it all and revealed that his only goal was to bring about universal destruction while using the First Order as a means to that end.

It would also allow for Kylo Ren to turn on him and contribute to the victory of "good" without going through a redemptive arc.

Rey: What do you want?

Kylo: I told you. I want to stop Snoke. I want to save the universe.

Rey: Okay, you do remember that you're a dark sider, right?

Kylo: We like to talk big, we dark siders do. "I'm going to destroy the universe" It's just tough guy talk. Struttin' around with your friends over a bowl of bloodsoup. The truth is, I like this universe. You've got... pod racing, Spacechester United, and you've got people. Billions of people walking around to dominate and rule. It's all right here. But then someone comes along with a vision. With a real passion for destruction. Snoke could pull it off. Goodbye, Coruscant. Farewell, Rakata bloody Prime. You know what I'm saying?


. . .

He can still be Darth Plagueis or NU!Rhett or Ezra as well, of course.

 

Not wanting to undermine Anakin's sacrifice in ROTJ I'm pretty sure Lucasfilm will create an entirely new sect of darksiders who are like Sith but called whatever George Lucas called them in his original script treatment- the Bogun or something

 

The Ashla and the Bogan?

 

Well, just in the Newniverse, the Nightsisters from TCW seemed like a pretty successful darksider-but-not-Sith faction.

 

They were.....but they came down with a case of the genocides.

I do want to see more Nightsisters such as in the form of a few survivors off world at the time, or in pre-TCW content.

But with their demise, it is further reason why we should eventually get a darkside faction that is quite different from the ones associated with the Empire.

 

Nightsisters were very interesting, but they're dead. A faction that deals with magic would be nice to see again.

 

We could easily explain that there are more Nightsisters by explaining that it was just that one clan/keep that was exterminated and there are other clans/keeps on Dathomir.

 

Ugh... that's the last thing we need, Sith in everything but name.



Nightsisters are even worse.

They just aren't interesting to me... an isolated tribe that keeps to themselves, doing things that don't feel like Star Wars

 

Corporate Execs or even politicians in the style of Vectivus. Not wanting to dominate nor rule the Galaxy, just carve themselves a piece to influence/rule in peace and not bother with the Jedi/Sith holy wars and prophecies. The Force (Dark Side included) would just be another weapon to them like their wealth.

 

I disagree. Having other clans existing post TCW would infringe on that Sith/CIS victory. The clone wars wars has many CIS losses with them being defeated in the end, so it's best to keep the CIS wiping out for good this dark side society. Also it would benefit storytelling of an off world survivor. She has no other clan to go to, practically the last of her kind.

 

Don't compare the majesty of Angelus with the disappointment that is Snoke.

 

It's way too early and we know way too little about the Knights of Ren to definitively call them derivative or "Basically Sith." What's clear is that they like the Sith...