ST I Have A Bad Feeling About This - The "Haters" Sanctuary

I mean he picked his first name. I mean honestly it’s not the Skywalker saga but there was a great Finn movie waiting to be told about finding his birth parents, stopping the FO kidnapping and deciding who he wanted to be.


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Couldn't agree more with this! Also in a trilogy that is in part about Rey finding out info about her parents does she even mention her parents in TROS? I can't remember. I know Kylo mentions her parents of course but does Rey ever talk about her memories of her parents or mention her parents in any way?

Also yes you could take out the Rey Palp reveal and still have the same story. The only thing the Rey Palpy reveal does is have give us an emotional rerun of the scene in TLJ when Kylo tells her something painful about her parents. It's the same emotional beat in TROS.

 

This movie is just Johnson's "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" ideology all over again. The past is dug up to be killed again. I think Abrams or Terrio said something along the lines of 'the past doesn't make you who you are, you choose' which is the same thing.

 

But if it comes across as that rushed "oh, crisis of faith...*five seconds later* great, ready to go again" is nullifies the very concept of a consequence, doesn`t it? I mean, it is supposed to be there in theory but if the execution can`t even remotely back it up, the concept falls apart. Theory alone means nothing.

At the very least in Into Darkness, despite JJ copying one of the most iconic scenes from Star Trek, just without 95 % of the emotional context from the original, the scene itself was allowed to play out slowly. And I could buy that those characters at least had the beginning of a friendship so with their recent strife, I could get something out of having one witness the other die. And Spock got to be angry for a whole other scene afterwards where he went after the villain, not yet knowing that JJ had come up with the magical resurrection du jour. While those two scenes absolutely lacked the necessary set-up for the emotional poignancy they wanted, at least the scenes by themselves were allowed room to breathe.

Even that doesn`t seem to be the case for TROS. So it`s not only not reaching the dramatic heights of the movie it overwrites in ROTJ with the family conflict but it isn`t not even reaching the bar of JJ`s mimicry-without-much-gravitas.

 

Didn't GL help Mel Brooks on the one condition that there would be no Spaceballs merchandizing?


Yeah, Disney would never let them get away with a Spaceballs 2. Unfortunately. It would undoubtedly be much more enjoyable.

 

Well given that Kanan and Heras son basically looks human (twilek/human hybrids were not a good Filoni idea) maybe Jannah is half twilek. I’m obviously joking but I hate some of the contrivances in Disney Star Wars and this one wouldn’t surprise me.

Also still smarting over that chewbacca VD entry. I mean Han was his family but after a year he has now completely latched on to rey, Finn and Poe? Sigh.


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Pleasing fans is the incentive to making art now?

Sorry, I'm not on board with that at all. I just disagree whole heartedly with this conspiracy theory that RJ just wanted to make ya'll mad. Maybe he was fine with making you all mad, but I don't believe for a second that that was the intention.

You have the fan service you are talking about. TROS is the attempt at fan service that TLJ inspired. Here's the problem - when anybody seeks out doing fan service to make the fans happy, they usually miss the mark. So no, I'll take not trying to make the hardcores happy.

You don't get good stories, you get cautious decision making.

 

Such baloney. It sounds good, but it means absolutely nothing. The past informs who we are, everything that we have done and has been done to us. How do we make a single choice, no matter how great or small, without recourse to our past? Could Lucas have made Star Wars if his past did not inform him? If he had never seen a single Flash Gordon serial or Western or Kurosawa film? Or even if he had never made rough drafts of his screenplays?

 

Don't forget Rey's boyfriend!

 

What JJ Abrams did was turn mystery boxes into a marketing tool. You don't have to spend hours and hours on an cohesive storyline from beginning to end when you use the power of mystery to hook your audience, string them along for the ride with several mysteries and possible explanations, and hope you can stick the landing and then claim all of this was planned from the beginning.

What is listening to the fans by your definition? With Lucas gone, the people who helm the series are more than likely going to be fans of Star Wars. The inmates are running the asylum.

If I recall correctly, a lot of fans wanted to see the New Republic fighting off the Imperial Remnants as that would be the logical continuation of where ROTJ left off. The revelation that it's actually the Resistance vs the First Order raised a critical red flag because that implied a return to the Rebels vs Empire dynamic, something that has been ridiculed in the past as being "creativity bankrupt." Starkiller Base, I still don't know why Abrams thought this would appease fans. Everyone had been making fun of the Emperor's backup plan to being building a bigger Death Star in ROTJ, not to mention all the ridicule of EU writers trying to top the Death Star superweapon in post-ROTJ novels.

Really, a lot of the hatred for TLJ stems from the seeds that Abrams put in TFA. What TLJ was confirm the worst fears among the fans, which is why the backlash is much more severe. I myself regretted ever holding off my full judgement on TFA out of the hope that TLJ will explain it all.

TROS could have gotten away with fan service if they've made a cohesive story arc that is consistent with TFA and TLJ. They didn't and it quickly became clear they were writing off the seats of their pants. When the audience notice that weakness, the fan service goes from the salt that favors the meal to salt being the only thing on the dish.

 

Self-documenting abdication. Self-documenting perjury, in court, under the judge's nose, after swearing to tell the whole truth. Bald, impudent. Detached, unhinged. Entitled. It doesn't get credit for being a lie, because there is nothing to be mistaken about. One cannot stand under a blue sky and lie to a crowd that the sky is green, for, it manifestly is not green. This proceeds from arrogating a representation to know better than, and to be empowered to correct what others thought they understood, when he knows far far less than those who have already for some time known most of the material.

 

That’s not true at all. When a writer or director cares and is talented, listening to fan feedback can produce some amazing sequels in video games, TV shows, and especially movies.

The argument that adhering to fan feedback is some inherently terrible idea is absurd and false.

Nothing in the ST was in response to fan feedback. As others have said if they cared about what fans want or what would be marketable we wouldn’t have had Thrawn wasted on Rebels and we would have had at least a NJO/New Republic/Imperial Remnant elements thrown into the ST

 

The other thing I do not understand is "fan service is bad" - I'm sorry, you're making a blockbuster for fans, that indicates to me there will be some fan service. You aren't making an avant garde film in the 60s. Treating fans of your work as people who should be grateful anyone is making something for them is a very bad look. It's also not anything to be proud of, the way that Johnson has swanned around as the Great Movie Maker for two years straight. Great, you made a murder mystery people liked and some folks have this absolutely (to me) insane devotion to your SW movie. You're not Spielberg yet.

 

They listened to the fans.


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Congrats to the 6.7%.

 

Super easy. Barely an inconvenience...

The kiss was absolutely pandering to Reylos. There is nothing about the story that dictated it, and much in the story that screamed "JFC please DON'T!"

 

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not defending the film with this post, but am defending the behind-the-scenes decisions. Now with that out of the way, I'm gonna have to disagree with you. George Lucas never made his movies to appeal to fans. He did whatever he wanted, and the fans either liked it (original trilogy, Indy 1-3) or they didn't (prequel trilogy, Young Indy, Indy 4). In Johnson's case, he was hired by Disney specifically because they wanted someone who would shake things up in the middle film. They knew what to expect from him, they read his script and liked it, and he received an unprecedented lack of studio interference in making TLJ. He may not be Spielberg, but he is certainly an accomplished filmmaker, with the critically-acclaimed Brick and The Brothers Bloom, the box office successes of Looper and TLJ, and the box office and critical success of Knives Out. (Not to mention his warmly-received episodes of Breaking Bad).

 

Well, yeah. That’s why I’m critical of it.

 

Fans were divided on the PT. It’s simply not true to say that fans didn’t like it.

 

Only this time she learns her bloodline means she might be a destructive madwoman, and then learns in 5 seconds from Luke that this doesn’t have to be the case! It’s rushed to the point of total absurdity.

 

Do we know that for a fact? Has there ever been a reason given why a guy who made a couple of indie films and a couple of TV episodes was handed the second film in a Star Wars trilogy?

I liked Indy 4 a lot better than Temple of Doom, fwiw. I take your point but by the same token, George didn't decide to tear up characters from one movie to the next. The Han Solo from ANH is recognizable in ESB and ROTJ. The guy in TFA? Not at all. I'm sure our mileage varies.

Tbh, Johnson for me is like Adam Driver - I have literally no idea why anyone thinks they're all that and a bag of chips. I can understand why some people get praise (Christopher Nolan, although I have flat out detested every movie of his I've seen) but not them. Some of the sequences in TLJ are astoundingly awful - for example, that whole bit with Laura Dern on the Raddus before she finally decides to do the hyperspace ram is just bad. I have had friends tell me to go see Knives Out, I wouldn't if you paid me. I know that's my problem, but I guess that's why I'm finding less and less to watch these days, when a couple of mid level TV directors are considered auteurs.

 

Heck no. No one is allowed to laugh at Kylo remember? Can't make him the butt of a joke.

 

Wouldn't even let Ralph Breaks the Internet portray him the same way the movies did: a whiny, entitled brat. It's comically over protective of the character, and makes it clear where their priorities lie.

 

I grew up with the prequels. They are my Star Wars, and are why I became a fan. Up until the last few years, I rarely met or spoke with another person who liked those films. They were trashed endlessly online from 1999-2015, and were treated as a joke IRL. The "cool" movies during that era were The Matrix, LOTR, Spider Man, and Harry Potter. The backlash was so severe and prevalent that Disney thought it wise to steer clear of anything prequel-esque when making the sequels. TFA even opened with "This will begin to make things right."

 

I wonder if it's because of the character or if it's KK trying to protect Driver from ending up like Hayden in crappy memes.

 

Ditto!

My daughter saw it, and I had joked with her that RJ likes stupid twists. She came home and said, "Guess what? There was a twist ending, but it was an unsatisfying twist." My mom called this morning to ask if we wanted to go see it with her, and I declined. We're Agatha Christie fans and she has seen the movie hyped like that, so I warned her about the ending (without spoiling it in case she sees it with someone else).