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PT All About the Sith

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Kato Sai, Aug 11, 2020.

  1. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Since Darth Plagueis “manipulated the Midi-chlorians to create life,” and thus createsd Anakin Skywalker, doesn’t this mean the Saga is really about the Sith? Palpatine was Plagueis’ apprentice, and he becomes Anakin/Vader’s Master. Then Rey is the granddaughter of Palpatine, and Ben/Kylo Ren is the descendant of Skywalker. Whatever way you slice it, the whole nine film saga exists because of the machinations of the Sith Lords Plagueis and Palpatine. Skywalker exists because of Sith manipulation of life.
     
  2. Libs

    Libs Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Anakin has never been officially been confirmed as the creation of Darth Plagueis, so that right there Invalids a lot.

    The Sith, or more importantly Palpatine is THE major antagonistic force of the SW so off course they'll have a major part in the Saga to play

    However, since none of the currently 9 movies focus on them as protagonists I would say the saga is about them specifically

    I used to say the saga was about The Skywalker family, their ups and downs, but the ST kind of negated that..
     
  3. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    We can definately infer Plagueis is Anakin’s creator because Anakin was a miraculous birth and Palpatine claims, “he (Plagueis) had such a knowledge of the dark side that he manipulated the Midi-chlorians to create life.” I assume Plagueis intended Anakin as a hedge on his bet against Palpatine, a plan to outwit his apprentice. This is why Palpatine is so keen to make Anakin his apprentice, because only Anakin is a true threat to him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
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  4. Jedi_Prophet77

    Jedi_Prophet77 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 14, 2017
    It's that knowing look Palpatine gives Anakin when he says 'to create ... life'. It's never confirmed, but dang if that look didn't throw us all for a loop. It could have been a truth that he let slip, because he knew it would be too outrageous to be believed. Or it could just be another thread in his web to capture Anakin for the dark side.
     
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  5. QUIGONMIKE

    QUIGONMIKE Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Yeah, Im not on board with the "Plageuis created Anakin" thing. Doesnt work for me. I just got done saying in another thread how I find it more fascinating that we DONT really know where Anakin came from. Shmi's lines in TPM are poetic & haunting: "I carried him, I raised him. I cant explain it". Perfect. Leave it at that. The mystery gives the character more gravitas & makes them more intriguing, IMO. Too many films and sagas feel this need to give everything & everyone a backstory, origin, blah blah. Stop. Let the viewers discuss and ponder it. Its cooler that way. :)
     
  6. Kylo-Jinn Vader

    Kylo-Jinn Vader Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2016
    I do think Plageuis came a long way in his endeavor to master life and death but I never belived he came full circle in creating new life. At least there is nothing canon about it. I really hope it will stay that way in Disney canon - that Anakin was simply a ”miracle” and no outside connection to his creation.
     
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  7. Jedi_Prophet77

    Jedi_Prophet77 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 14, 2017
    I like the comment above about preserving a sense of mystery. I'm all for it. However, I can't help but wonder if Plagueis achieved by creating Anakin what Palpatine did poorly by creating Snoke(s), thus Snoke's misshapen and wounded body. On the other hand, it's clear that Palpatine managed a perfect clone of himself, who fathered Rey. So, again, I don't know. But I like the idea of the Skywalker and Palpatine families' being 'created' by the dark side, only to ultimately escape the dark side's control one way or the other.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
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  8. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

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    Apr 27, 2014
    My theory is Palaptine in his haste to be Dark Lord killed his master Plagueis, but then when mortality came cslling he wanted the power to “keep..from dying.” So he used the clone technology and sought to use the Sith ritual of essence transfer.
     
  9. imperial scum

    imperial scum Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 7, 2020
    Weren't the midichlorians resisting Plagueis control and created Anakin on their own accord? Wookiepedia says so.
    He's not a Sith product, the Sith according to Lucas are unnatural, they disturb the balance in the force.
     
  10. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

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    Apr 27, 2014
    GL said Plagueis is Anakin’s father.
    Palpatind I believe was looking for the Sith’ari not the Chosen One.
     
  11. imperial scum

    imperial scum Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 7, 2020
    When did he say that? An early draft of RotS had Palpatine as father and no mention of Plagueis, but in the end it stayed a mystery.
    Anakin is a virgin birth, the Chosen One in the jedi prophecy.
     
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  12. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    No, he didn't.
     
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  13. Beautiful_Disaster

    Beautiful_Disaster Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 12, 2005
    Matt Martin confirmed that Palpatine nor Plagueis created Anakin. Palpatine was messing with Anakin's head, manipulating him when he told him that. It's what Sheev does, he's a master manipulator.
     
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  14. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Their conversation isn't even about Anakin's conception. It's about the power to keep someone from dying.

    Lucas does leave open the possibility that Plagueis could have been the one who manipulated the midi-chlorians that conceived Anakin, since he had the power to manipulate them. But Lucas purposely never states it as having happened.

    "Now, there’s a hint in the movie that there was a Sith Lord who had the power to create life. But it’s left unsaid: is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the midi-chlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the midi-chlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the midi-chlorians? It’s left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: balance comes back to the Force." - George Lucas
     
  15. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

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    Apr 27, 2014
    Anakin’s pull to the dark side does lend a clue however, his Tuskancide and his “I want more and I know I shouldn’t.” These to me are fingerprints of Plagueis.
     
  16. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    No, they are the result of Anakin's attachment and greed.
     
  17. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

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    Apr 27, 2014
    Are not these dark side traits? Passion is in one definition Ardent Affection (attachment) and is the first lines of the Sith Code, “Peace is a lie, there is Passion,” and “Through Passion I gain strength.” Greed is defined as :a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (such as money) than is needed, does this not fir “I want more and I shouldn’t.” We Sith want more power and it can be labeled greed.
     
  18. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    They are. And it was Anakin's choice to indulge those traits. They have nothing to do with Plagueis.
     
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  19. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

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    Apr 27, 2014
    How can you be sure? Even GL left that open to speculation.
     
  20. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    He left open to speculation wether Plagueis had manipulated the midi-chlorians that led to the conception of Anakin. Not that Plagueis is in control of Anakin or passed on anything to him. He didn't. He has nothing to do with Anakin's character and decisions.
     
  21. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

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    Apr 27, 2014
    If Plagueis did manipulate the Midi-cholorians to create Anakin it did effect Anakin, being created by a Lord of the Sith. It would mean Anakin was designed to be a dark sider and “fufill his destiny.”
     
  22. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    No, it wouldn't. It would mean that Plagueis had manipulated midi-chlorians to the point of conception. He didn't design Anakin nor did he inbue him with any trait.

    Anakin's fall and actions are a result of his own decisions. His influences are what we see in the movies.
     
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  23. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 29, 2016
    I never believed the Palpatine-created-Anakin theory.

    I know that it's not canon and was never G-canon, but the novel Darth Plagueis suggests that the opposite of Plagueis creating Anakin happened- the midichlorians created him IN RESPONSE to Plagueis's attempts to manipulate them. To me, that seems to suggest that Anakin's destiny according to the Force was to oppose the Sith and their attempt to rise to power. And if Plagueis was controlling Anakin, the prophecy would never have been fulfilled.

    As far as Rey goes, the saga is still about the Jedi, but the importance of the Skywalker family is reduced in light of her heritage.
     
  24. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

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    Apr 27, 2014
    I have read about that, The Force reacted to Plagueis and Palaptine’s manipluations.
    However, Anakin did fall to the dark side and had strong wrath issues, which makes me inclined to think he was effected by their manipulations.
    I am of course ommitting the Mortis arch, which was in my opinion a cheap way to make Anakin Chosen One, even though in it he saw he’d become Sith Lord.
     
  25. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    He fell because he acted on the dark side. The dark side and the light side are accessible to anyone. The challenges he faced and the actions he took can happen to anyone. He was not genetically manipulated or imbued with any dark tendecies. That's antithetical to the whole story.