Saga Anakin Skywalker - Character Discussion...among other things.

From my new favorite prequels article:
http://www.ferdyonfilms.com/2015/st...episode-three-revenge-of-the-sith-2005/26568/

Much as older viewers couldn’t relate to Anakin, many kids and teens did. His deeply egotistical and painfully self-castigating sense of having his potential thwarted and his need for control foiled, and Padmé’s optimism waning into an increasingly detached cynicism towards the political process she stands for, depict states of mind all too prolific in our time, ones that contradict common, conflicting expectations loaded upon young people, to be incredible achievers and unswervingly empathetic idealists all at once. “Only a Sith talks in absolutes,” Obi-Wan warns Anakin as he turns to the dark side. At the time, some took this for a tilt at the rhetoric of George W. Bush, as much as it now sounds like a thumbnail sutra explaining the powerful appeal of groups like Islamic State for some—the promise of complete surrender to a simple cause, a pure mode of thought for which any act can be countenanced. In this regard, Lucas clearly had his pulse on something other populist filmmakers have tried to grasp but usually belaboured. What is also clear to me is that Lucas, when he revisited this material, wanted to try to live within in it on a much deeper level than the original films and pay truer heed to the material’s partial roots in the medieval mythos, both Eastern and Western, where lives were lived and death was met according to rather different value systems. The famous title card of every episode declares that this is all “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away…,” but this fairytale motif only really feels true with the prequels. The original films are a charmingly bratty revolution fantasy, where the good guys happen to speak like ’70s American teens and the bad guys have English accents. The prequels are a tragic contemplation of the forces that tear societies, and individuals, to pieces. Lucas’ interest in a chillier, headier brand of scifi parable was obvious right from THX 1138 and here found further articulation.

 

As nice as this sounds, I'm not sure that the filmmakers are capable of producing anything quite so enticing. I was quite disillusioned by the newest film and I just don't want them to do anything to character assassinate Anakin, nor, so far, does it seem like this newest film is very focused on having anything to do with the prequels.

 

Cool story. My boss decided to introduce her 7 y.o. to SW but being an OT first fan decided to start with Luke. As soon as they started watching ANH he was like "Ok this is Luke but where is Anakin?" And he hadn't seen anything Star Wars prior to that so who knows where he'd picked it up (shool, TV, merchandising...)

 

Tell me Obi, where are we going this time?

Is it the Clone Wars, or the Empire's rise?

All I wanted to do... is ride my T-16 and say-ay...

Take me away... I don't mind... just better promise me I'll be...

 

Great picture! And it doesn't look as fake as many other Photoshop pics you find on the web. Someone actually took the time to find faces that match the environment in similar lighting conditions.
Great posts in this thread by the way! People posting here actually have brains and understand the movies, unlike those morons mindlessly putting down the prequels and everything Lucas did in the past 20 years. Many great ideas and thoughts here!

 

Your contributions are always so poetic, SeventySeven. I should have highlighted this post before.

Thank you for all the work you do here.

I think that one of the things people struggle mightily with is Anakin's youth.

Lucas chose to depict a very young and impetuous person turning bad. Not an older, more rounded, wizened, "bad ass" figure. Less Batman, more Robin.

But then, if he'd done the latter, he would have set himself the task of a very different trilogy. That clearly wasn't the story he wanted to tell.

Actor and character, therefore, get hammered, in my view, due to the parameters of the tale Lucas decided to tell. Rather than focus on what's there, people focus on what isn't.

"Be mindful of the Living Force." Only, most people aren't, despite this advice being dispensed at the start of the trilogy. Unliving abstractions are dwelt upon at the expense of noticing and attuning to what is on the screen in front of them.

Perhaps it is apt that there is a fundamental split between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon at the beginning of the film when this advice is given. Obi-Wan sucks it down and tries to get with the program, but it's clear that it's something that'll take its time. "He has much to learn of the Living Force, but he is capable."

If you take Qui-Gon's view, you are an advocate of this Anakin, in this story, no matter what you think of his actions. You believe not so much in him, but in this conception and realization of the character. You see the living authenticity of it. If you come down with Obi-Wan, you see a pathetic, mawkish, self-absorbed, child-murdering savage, and there's little that's truly tragic or compelling: like Jar Jar, he is an irritant in your fantasy world; the oxidized worm-hole in your gleaming Star Wars apple.

Obviously, I predominantly take Qui-Gon's view. I see a full-flush character dripping in poetic humanity. But I'm not totally unsympathetic to the "Obi-Wan" point-of-view. I just don't think it adequately captures the character -- the creature -- I see in front of me. Anakin is a function of the world that creates him. Ennobled, but not necessarily noble. Passionate, but not necessarily reasonable. Self-sacrificing, but not necessarily free of self-absorption. A microcosm, a muddle. Someone that is poignantly between hero and villain. I think Lucas found the twilight zone and crafted one of the most extraordinary screen icons of all time. Though Anakin also has a more internalized quality than your average icon. In a way, he is less a character outside of the films, than a mood, a presence, an energy: a blot of ink on vast cinematic landscape. Most people, when they turn their mind to this, seem to see only a lech, or a failed victim. But I think Anakin more cogently encompasses many of the less talked-about and paradoxical aspects of the human condition. And in a 1930s B-movie serial-inspired space opera, no less!

Possibly the best-ever paragraph that has ever been written on these movies.

Breathtaking. Thank you so much for that quotation.

It has the unique quality of being a very obvious "Photoshop" but also an expertly-done and rather charming one.

It's nice that people are still thinking and feeling these movies and coming up with beautiful shorthands -- or sutras (to quote that essay extract above) -- to express the particular charms and elegant dichotomies of this epic saga.

 

This is a general topic about Anakin's character, so I hope I don't sound too off-topic with this. But, has anyone noticed how the character becomes progressively "British" over time? First he starts out as an "American" boy, then as a young adult he is Canadian with a (to me at least) less recognizable accent. Under the mask we hear James Earl Jones with what to me sounds like more of a British accent. Finally of course we see Sebastian Shaw who is English. I was just wondering, did Lucas intend him to change accents or was he just unaware of it? Considering Vader's adult voice he might have picked an English kid. I know it's not a major concern when choosing actors but still it's something you notice. It's funny how turning to the dark side also makes Anakin more "British".

 

I don't think they really cared too much when they cast Anakin in TPM. I believe they were more concerned about personality portrayal than accent. I think Hayden's accent was trying to progressively work towards James Earl Jones's speech patterns. As for Sebastian Shaw, I'm fairly certain he didn't give much thought to the casting there either.

 

Was it? Never noticed that. I find he talks pretty much the same way at the beginning of AOTC as at the end of ROTS. His tone may have been a little deeper during the confrontation on Mustafar but his accent is pretty much the same. Maybe I need to pay more attention to that next time I watch the prequels.

 

When George was making the Prequel Trilogy, do you think Anakin should have stayed an important Soldier or general that Palpatine manipulated and not some prodigy savior that was called so important for the universe? The prequels didn't even draw how he was important. Besides the moment he killed mace Windu, everything could´ve have been done by Palpatine alone.

 

I don't think Anakin should have been space Jesus. Nothing about a prophecy was ever brought up in the OT, so none of it was necessary. I think the PT would resonate with more people if Anakin was just a normal guy who wanted to get away from home. Have him meet Obi-Wan, have Obi-Wan see promise in the boy and decide to train him as a Jedi.

 

So you think Anakin should have had an actual father instead of being created by the Force?

 

Here is how I always pictured things carrying on, as far as Anakin's history is concerned. Anakin is almost twenty. Anakin, his brother Owen, and Shmi are living in an apartment in one of the spaceport cities because their father/Shmi's husband died from heat stroke on their farm (Lars Homestead). There are no banks on Tatooine so Deak Skywalker (Anakin's dad) was borrowing money from Watto to keep the farm going. Shmi felt betrayed by her husbands passing and went back to her maiden name (Lars) and Owen took that name too. Only Anakin kept the Skywalker name. Watto now owns the farm. Shmi and Owen work odd jobs, but Anakin is an indentured servant to Watto.

The Jedi arrive on Tatooine during the Clone Wars. Obi-Wan and Anakin bond. Anakin wins in the podrace. Obi-Wan sells the pod. The Lars' finally have enough money to buy their farm back and be set. Anakin decides not to go back and instead wants to leave to join the war effort. Anakin just wants to get away from home, he's not overly concerned with being a Jedi. Owen gets very upset and blames Obi-Wan for putting half-cocked ideas into Anakin's head. Shmi tells Owen to calm down and gives Anakin her blessing to leave.

Obi-Wan, being extremely impressed with Anakin's piloting abilities during the podrace, suggests he become a Jedi. They get to Coruscant and the council agrees to train Anakin, but Yoda says Anakin will need an experienced master and decides to do it himself. Obi-Wan makes the argument that him and Anakin have grown close. Yoda, having a soft spot for Obi-Wan (Yoda was Obi-Wan's master in this scenario) he allows Obi-Wan to train Anakin.

This sets up Anakin eventually having no real loyalty to the Jedi Order, Obi-Wan not being the best person to train him, and Yoda always making excuses for Obi-Wan.

 

I don't like the prophecy or the midichlorians.

I think Anakin just should have been a highly Force sensitive individual. Qui-Gon, Yoda, Windu, etc., all could have remarked about how strongly they felt the Force in Anakin and Lucas could have told the same story without resorting to Space Jesus and silly midichlorians. He certainly should have been portrayed as special but I think Lucas took it too far.

 

I think both Anakin and Luke defy typical masculine protagonists in their respective films. They are flawed, yet compassionate, and are not afraid to express their emotions.

Which is why I cant stand TCW version of Anakin which is essentially "make pre-Darth Vader cool and fun like Han Solo!!!!" Anakin just lacks a vulnerability or really much of a character outside of 80s movie one-liners and quips. Also ill take whiny AOTC Anakin and whiny ANH Luke over domestic abuse Clovis arc Anakin anyday.

 

If Lucas had portrayed Anakin as simply another Force sensitive individual in the Prequels, what would have been the point of Palpatine seeking to turn Luke as far back as "The Empire Strikes Back"? Why would he have went out of his way to turn the son of just another Force sensitive individual?

Contrary to what the media and some fans would have you believe, Anakin and the PT managed to resonate with a lot of people anyway. How else can one explain that the movies were box office hits and managed to attract a good number of fan bases? As much as I dislike the ST, I cannot deny that it has its legions of fans and admirers.

 

Damn.

 

Well, Vader wants to train Luke so that they can team up and kill Palpatine.

So Palpatine flips the script on Vader. Palpatine just knows, once Vader says Luke would be a powerful ally, that Vader's intention is to train Luke to be the person to kill Palpatine. So Palpatine just goes along with it in order to get Luke to fall to the dark side and instead kill Vader... which is exactly what we see happen in ROTJ. Except, of course, Luke doesn't actually go through with killing Vader.

 

@LedReader Seriously, we can continue in here.

 

Go for it, although I do think it's a relevant part of the discussion about Anakin's motives that by contrast Kylo doesn't have any established motives at all. He slaughters and conquers all before him because...his uncle was mean to him one time. Except the only reason his uncle was almost mean him that one time is because he was already a pretty messed up dude, for even vaguer reasons surrounding the fact that his grandfather that he never met was also evil once and never bothered to come back from the afterlife to mention that he changed his mind about that decision even though he could have done so.

 

@LedReader

My main thing about Anakin in the PT is that, to me, he's not the kind of person I would ever want to be around. I can have sympathy for someone I don't like.

And more importantly, it seems like Lucas took the easiest route possible to get Anakin into the Vader suit. The biggest thing is AOTC where we have one scene that just flat out tells us that Palpatine has been whispering into Anakin's ear for a decade. Like wow, thanks for just spelling it out for us. Could we see any of this? Show, don't tell.

 

I think there's an interesting contrast between both Obi Wan and Palpatine being father figures to Anakin. Obi Wan must be the mentor and tell him things he doesn't want to hear, while Palpatine reads Anakin like a book and tells him exactly what he wants to hear.

 

I thought ROTS did a good enough job showing it.

 

Yeah, after the fact.

It's a clever dynamic, but we're told to just accept that this has been what's been going on for the past ten years. And since Anakin has to go to the dark side in the next film, it's awfully convenient that Palpatine has been able to be around Anakin all of the time without anyone ever raising an eyebrow about it. Not one single Jedi (including Obi-Wan) thought it was weird that a political figure and a Jedi padawan were spending so much time together?