ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in Episode VII

Ah cool, never saw that before. Thanks!



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I certainly don't think it's implicit. And Snoke being a physical creature alludes to him being a conventional force user/manipulator rather than 'of the force' per se (albeit a 25ft force user). It really depends on how they want to portray the force and it's nature i.e. does it have a definitive source or is it much more nebulas? The former being more PT/TCW and the latter more OT. You know me, I'm all for showing the wellspring of the force... the origins of the light and dark (and I'm a sucker for anything Korriban/Moraband related) etc. but I thought that approach would be a bit devisive amongst the fanbase.

 

I agree, honestly I would be fine if he wasn't a Sith. Luke foiled the grand plan and that should be it, the Sith should be gone. I want him to be a new breed of Dark Force users, ones who use even more evil force methods than any Sith ever had.



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The apprentice falsely believing he has learned everything his master knows is a classic storytelling device.

 

But if he had learned that power he would have used it and he would have either been safe from dying or restored Anakin to his full potential, if the power only worked on other persons, as he was disappointed in Vaders lack of force potential.

 

Well the books, I can't which one precisely seem to imply that Palpatine believed the source of the Dark Side may be hidden somewhere inside the Beyond and I believe he had research expeditions exploring this idea. So Let's just presume for the sake of debate that one of these expeditions discovers a well sing of the Dark Side, and Snoke is there as well. Maybe he would be the SW equivalent of the Devil. I have no idea about specifics, just that you're going to have dark vs light portrayed in some manner across the ST, so maybe Snoke represents that and Luke represents the light? If that's an approach they wanted to look at you could easily start to delineate the specifics away from what we've seen before, or come at the kind of ideas you mention from a fresh angle. The basic idea of a powerful dark lord from the Beyond is just the jumping off point. And when it's all hypothetical anyway, the limit really is where you decide to spin that very simple idea.

 

So, you believe him? Why? The man is a master of lies and deception. It's his thing? How can you tell Sidious is lying? His lips are moving!

And if Plagueis COULD do that, and Sidious didn't know, then how did he later find out about it? Occam's Razor. Sidious is lying through his teeth (as usual).

 

As I say, it's not like I don't like the idea of 'Gods and Monsters' in Star Wars... I’d certainly like to see something that explored the origins of the lightside and dark (as we’ve discussed before), it's just that it's a potentially contentious idea, given that some fans didn't like the ‘demystification’ of the force in the PT and TCW. And at this stage in proceedings, I’d lean more towards Abrams wanting to make something much more straight forward (although I’d be glad to be wrong on that point).

 

I think regardless of his size (I would bet this is a hologram and that he's actually 10-12 feet, which is still massive), it would be cool if Luke and Snoke ultimately meet up and have a showdown strictly based on their knowledge of the force. I always thought that this is what we should have seen from Yoda v. Sidious instead of the lightsaber theatrics, and that each would have had some cool force powers that we hadn't yet seen in the OT, with Yoda's knowledge of the light side and Sidious's exploitation of the dark side. Kind of like Dumbledore v. Voldemort. If it turns out Snoke is >10 feet tall, I don't think we will see him wielding a giant lightsaber.

 

If the film plays out this way, and it's executed well, I may just have to let Empire Strikes Back know that it's been a fun ride, but I've found someone else: The Force Awakens.

It's got suitably mythological elements as Star Wars has in the past, but it steps up the mythology another level. It makes the stakes higher than in the OT, but not just by upping the physical threat (Starkiller). It ups the spiritual threat as well.

To put Luke in Gandalf's shoes: "Snoke will cover the Galaxy in a second darkness." And this time, it could be permanent. Forget the Vong. This is a much more frightening prospect.

We'll see! But as of now, this theory seems to very neatly and satisfyingly pull all the story elements together into a substantive story.

My only concern is that I may be disappointed if it doesn't turn out this epic!

 

I have to agree that the podium and speaker system was most likely set up to allow the actors on the ground to better interact with what will end up becoming a large hologram. The first time we see Palps is when Vader kneels to his head projected on a massive scale- it seems right to introduce Snoke like that- even if Snoke's hologram winds up showing more than just his head. If Starkiller base gets wiped out by the rebels then Snoke obviously won't be residing there- which tells me that he's still waiting in the Beyond, waiting for something...

 

Well if people didn't like the demystification it makes sense to do some mystification now.

 

Thanks JabbatheHumanBeing - it probably won't pan out this way but it would make sense I think and seems to tick a lot of boxes.

 

Sure. But in my mind, it's a nearly perfect fantasy story. Add the rumored character depth, for both our new and old heroes, and you have the potential for a timeless classic.

Not to mention that it would silence any and all teeth-gnashing by the Luke clan. In this construct, Luke would essentially be the ever-vigilant guardian/ savior of the galaxy. There is no more important role, and legacy, than that. A Jon Snow on galactic steroids.

 

Well, I'm certainly DO expect him to be taller than the average alien in the GFFA. That being said, I find it unlikely for him to be 25 feet tall. King Kong's height in the 2005 film was described as being exactly "25 feet tall on his hind legs", so it sounds like too big of a coincidence - almost as if they want to fool us on purpose. Interesting sidefact: In the Toho films, Kong is much larger, around 50 feet on his hind legs.

I would expect him to be around the same height as the Na'vi (10 feet), give or take a few inches. I still think he's just a hologram in TFA though.

 

Well maybe the force does intervene- awaken- by leading the lightsaber to Rey. Maybe Snoke and Luke's standoff has created such a stagnation of the force, with the dark side and the light in frozen balance, that the force wants to be used and could still set things in motion to bring an end to this conflict.

 

While I think that Snoke's darkside power will indeed be large, I doubt they will deconstruct Palpatine and Vader just to make him look powerful.

Vader never lost force potential, that was decanonized recently in Lords of the Sith.

 

While I'm not sure that it will pan out exactly as you presented it, I do think you may very well be on the right track. It ties a great deal of things together, ranging from Snoke's personal motivations to Luke's disappearance to why Rey was stranded on Jakku as a child to the whole mess that is the Bespin Saber. Moreover it does so in a relatively streamlined way. It's a context that makes a lot of sense.

The one big mystery it leaves, I think, is how Kylo Ren plays into everything. Pretty much every debate or theory I've seen lately focuses in on a select portion of the various mysteries of TFA, but never the collective whole. A lot of people who spend time speculating on Rey's parentage combine their theories with whatever direction they think Kylo's story arc is headed towards. Snoke is generally a non-factor in these theories.

I suspect that's partially because everyone has a different opinion on how Snoke and Kylo Ren will both factor into this trilogy. Is Kylo going to be a redeemable villain like Vader and act as a wild card in the final battle against Snoke? Or is he set to overthrow Snoke and become the main villain altogether?

 

I have a song in my head from this thread:

If Snoke is big, he's Plagueis.
If Snoke is small, Plagueis.
If Snoke be median, Plagueis, Plagueis.
If Snoke be anything, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis, Plagueis!

Plagueis.

 

With Kylo, a lot would depend on who he is, and whether he was taken and turned or obsessed by the dark side, he stared too long into the darkness and found Snoke - a bit like Saruman or denethor with the palantir (only younger obviously) and he was the traitor.

Also yeah there is zero way this will pan out too closely. It was more an attempt to get a handle on what the deal might be with Snoke and Luke. Also, we know Kylo's stated aim is to destroy the last Jedi but is that true?

 

you forget also that plenty of speculation also ignores Luke beyond training his niece Rey he doesn't do much, I'm sure he would also be a factor vs Snoke. Same as plenty ignore Finn, it feels like most speculation seem all about Rey vs Kylo or Rey/Kylo vs Snoke. From the description of Snoke he seems to potentially be the bigger threat in the ST.

 

People still think he's Plagueis? Look at the early concept art for him...


If this tells us anything, it's that he is NOT Plagueis. If he was, he'd look like a Muun. This shows that he is a brand new character and despite the fact that this design probably won't be used, it still shows that it is a brand new character who will have a new look. If that wasn't enough... think of the details we've gotten about his SIZE. Plagueis is NOT that big! These rumors won't die till the movie comes out though...

 

Satipo

Great. Just when I was looking forward to this film immensely, you go and come up with a synopsis that is so utterly brilliant that if that isn't what's happening, I'll be thoroughly disappointed

 

I don't think he is but the counter argument is that him being Muun is not cannon.



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actually Plagueis's race in the new canon is unknown so he could be anything, the Munn stuff is Legends.