ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in Episode VII

Its not much of an arguement, but if he was Reven it would be a little weird for 3 main characters having a very similar name

(Kylo) Ren, Rey, Revan

 

You may be right about the Sith. I'm not sure why I thought they would be more focused on ending the light. I feel like that thought sprung from something I read in Tarkin or Aftermath, or something I watched in The Clone Wars. I honestly can't recall, though, I'll have to look into it.

Regarding Snoke's view of Ren, and his balance of the dark and light sides of the Force, however, here are some of the quotes from the Visual Dictionary that dealt with this:

"Having studied Jedi skills as well as arcane dark side lore, Kylo Ren is the embodiment of conflict, drawing upon contradictory teachings and deriving power from discord."

"His ability to use the Force grants him many impressive combat skills, but Kylo Ren is no Jedi, nor is he a Sith. He is the archetype of a new generation of dark side users that have emerged to fill the void left by the Sith's demise."

"The Supreme Leader believes Ren to be the ideal embodiment of the Force, a focal point of both light and dark side ability."

I found these quite interesting, and they make me think that Kylo Ren and Snoke are dark siders with a very different philosophy from the Sith or the Jedi. In some ways I'm reminded of the Force wielders from The Clone Wars. Of these three beings, the strongest in general seemed to be the Father, who held a balanced view of the Force, and considered the dark side as natural as the light. His children seemed to initially have a similar view, but they each appeared to move toward and attune themselves more with one side or the other.

 

Thanks for confirming this, Mungo Baobab. This is why I've been confused at people comparing Snoke to Gollum and Voldemort, which seems like a too recent, quick judgement. He looks so much more like Karloff, which I love.

And you're right about those eyes -- I wonder if the inspiration for Snoke is Egyptian? I believe they had a thing for snakes, as well as mummys, and the whole ancient god-living-forever kind of thing.

Wasn't there also a Ren connection to Egypt, too?

 

Ren in ancient Egypt was a person's given name which, the Egyptians believed, was also an integral part of their soul.

In the pre-canon times, the ancient Sith and Korriban were heavily based upon Egypt. I believe the name was changed to Moraband in canon, but I'm not aware if they kept the Egyptian flavour of it or not.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking that Snoke doesn't exist quite yet. He's a specter of some sort. Not a force ghost, but something that can only manifest in very specific locations. That 'throne room' on the Starkiller Base, looked very different than everything found on the base. It looked like a enormous cavern. Something more ancient, and the base was built around it.

Besides my 'crazy theory' that Snoke is really a nightsister and mom to Rey ... my real theory is that Snoke is an ancient darkside being. He doesn't exist in our realm and is looking for someone powerful in the Force to possess, or suck the life force from them. We even heard rumors that Snoke would be vampiric in nature. And these Egyptian mummy ideas fall in line with that. Ancient being that seeks to live again.

Hearing Leia speak about how Snoke will just use Kylo for his power and then crush him, makes me believe that Snoke wants to exist in the GFFA but he needs a 'host' of some sort. This is why he wants to make sure that Kylo is pure darkside before he begins his training. This is why asked for Rey to be brought to him. (Perhaps he senses that she's more powerful Skywalker)

There's some concept art in the Art of Book that shows an early villain who is a puppet master. So its all surrounding that general concept.

That all said, I don't think Snoke cares about Kylo in the least. I don't think Snoke even really cares about the First Order. Palpatine seemed to genuinely like Anakin, in so much as a pure evil villain could. He respected Anakin initially, and so far as how Anakin could enforce his own power. I think Snoke will move into possess/suck/use up/crush Kylo's force and then move into the real. I think Kylo might be along with the ride, but will eventually realize his mistake and it'll be too late. (Or perhaps Snoke moves into to take Rey's power, and that finally pushes Kylo to sacrifice himself - but again it would be too late.

 

I also think that snoke is an ancient sith who has finally been able to manifest himself again. I'm thinking along the lines of Valkorion. Consider:

1.) He leads the first order. "first" doesn't make sense if it's heritage is solely of Palpatine's Empire (see: new order). Even a certain German dictator was trying to be numerically correct when he called his government the Third Kingdom.

To me this implies the FOs heritage is much older than the Empire it just restocked from. And snoke was it's emperor.

2.) Luke is looking for the first Jedi temple. Why? Probably for ancient Jedi knowledge to help defeat an ancient sith emperor.

3.) Valkorion's history. He kills his own father (which he tells Kylo he must also do), stays out of wars until the right time, performs an ancient sith ritual to become immortal but needs to transfer bodies eventually. Leads the sith into the unknown regions to regroup and rebuild.

4.)the iconography of the first order is different than the Empire. This has to be deliberate, as JJ made sure of all the other OT throwbacks. Why change one of the most recognizable SW insignias? Whatever empire snoke used to rule, this was probably the crest of

 

I noticed on my second viewing today that deep scar that runs down Snoke's forehead.

The novelization also mentions that scar as well as how Snoke appears to be, and I'm paraphrasing here, "reconstructed".

It sounds like he's had some accidents in the past and has been rebuilt.

 

I didn't know Serkis was playing Snoke. When I saw the film, I turned to my SO and said wtf is colluding in Star Wars . It was the most disappointing part of the film. Hopefully he isn't a shriveled Palpatine

 

Yes a ghost would not have a feature being reconstructed. Like I mentioned in another post, there is a reason why Maz has lived for over 1000 years. She will be very important in the explanation of Snoke and any other (outside) concepts brought into the future movies.

 

I have to admit: the full CG characters, Snoke, Rathars, and Maz were not as top shelf as they should have been. They should have all been Davey Jones quality. Only Maz, a character which I really liked despite the sometimes CG-ness of her, really approached that level.

They just should have used Serkis in a hood for Snoke or had a person on a throne with their back turned. But, he seemed animated at times. Synthetic.

 

The CG on Snoke was not good at all. He looked far too silky. I thought Maz was very good, for the most part.

 

I don't see how he couldn't have been done with a live actor with a CGI face.

 

It seems kind of ridiculous to critique the CG on Snoke when Snoke was a hologram. He wasn't meant to look as concrete and detailed as Maz.

 

Sidious's blu ray SE hologram looked more realistic. Snoke could've been done in practical effects.

 

I think the CGI looked the way it did for snoke was because he was a hologram tho.

Maz looked awesome to me, I saw it in 3D and she looked amazing

 

Ignoring all the times live actors were used in previous films?

 

http://www.starwars.com/databank/supreme-leader-snoke
Not sure if this has been posted already...

 

I'm going to give him a shot.

 

My post was supposed to say Gollum, not colluding.

 

Moraband still has an Egyptian flavour in TCW, although ancient Sith armor doesn't.

 

1. No it didn't.

2. No, you couldn't have done the 20+ foot tall hologram practically. And I say that as someone who loves practical effects.

 

I think that the reason they went mocap with Snoke is that whilst they may have been able to create him as a puppet, they wouldn't have been able to get the performance from a practical version that they got from the mocap version. Snoke's proportions are difficult, he really is exceptionally thin and tall - just look how elongated he is in the shot were we see him from the side, as he leans forward.

His head is also an odd shape, his skull has an odd angularity to it, as well as the huge disfigurement to the left side of his jaw - which though hidden in shadow in this film, most likely would require some CG effect to realise it in future films. He's a tough character to create visually, very different to Palpatine, and they went with what they felt was the best method to convey Serkis's performance.

 

I've seen the movie three times now and I don't see anything wrong with the way Snoke is portrayed. Motion capture was clearly necessary because of the structure and appearance of Snoke...he is very thin and has very different body part ratios. Plus, the big gash on his left cheek area wouldn't have been possible to create effectively with prosthetics. And he was projected as a hologram...he isn't supposed to look incredibly real yet. That comes in Episode 8.

 

It's 30 years after ROTJ, and the First Order has built Starkiller Base and obviously has incredible technology. You can't say Snoke's look was poor on purpose because it was a hologram. Abrams could have made holograms 30 years after ROTJ look like anything he wanted it to look like. This is the intro of your main villain for a new Star Wars trilogy. You want to nail it, not make it look like "OK for now, but wait 18 months till he's not a hologram, ok guys, thanks!"

Two-Face in the Dark Knight was accomplished with a real actor + CGI effect. Looked great, And that was 7 years ago. This could have been the same for Snoke. Oh, he's supposed to be really tall? How about forced perspective? Worked Beautifully with Gandalf and the Hobbits which Serkis should know more than a little bit about. Mo-Cap was not needed for Snoke. Not in TFA, anyway.

It seems like they had the idea of a mo-cap villain to differentiate from Palpatine and cast Serkis, and THEN Snoke was designed. It doesn't feel like Snoke's design organically developed out of the story concept only then to have it apparent to the filmmakers that mo-cap was the only way to do it. I think they chose mo-cap first, then Snoke's final look developed out of that decision.

 

I think Snoke is going to have to be encased in some kind of Vader type armor to operate in person, my thinking is he is either incapacitated and projecting from some kind of life support chamber or his hologram is actually all there is to him from a Sith holocron.