PT Answered: How did Padmé die?

It just struck me that the twin suns of Tatooine are, in a sense, "skywalkers" themselves. I suppose a lot of people already noticed this before me. I can be pretty dense sometimes.

I think it's kind of both. I think Padme is in despair, and it's killing her, but she holds on for the sake of her children. Then at the last moment before she passes, she sees the light that's awaiting her, she remembers the good that she knows is still in Anakin, and then she finally sees hope and allows herself to go.

I agree with you that the choices she made in life represented in some sense an acceptance of suffering, but she's still suffering. When she's crying out in pain on the delivery table, that's her Christ suffering on the cross moment. Like Christ, she chose it willingly, but it's still happening. And even Christ despaired on the cross for a moment (at least according to some).

But of course these are all pretty abstruse concepts. I suspect we're really saying the same thing.

 

While I did find your analysis interesting @The_Phantom_Calamari , I still think that if she was really going to hold on for her children, she would have done so beyond their births, for the next sixty years or so. Forget the Republic she loved dearly, forget the Rebellion that was being formed to bring it back, forget that the same man that she claimed to still believe in was still there, her own children were just born, and would undoubtedly be raised in a dark, dangerous time.
If she held on to hope regarding the light in Anakin, why would she die of a broken heart? If she believed that he could still be redeemed (implied by her last words), then what is there to give up on. I still concur that a broken heart that was the cause of death, but it makes no logical sense from an in-universe perspective. She's choosing to give up rather than be there for Luke, Leia and the cause she fought bravely for all her life.

 

It was all rather eye-roll inducing to me. I agree with the poster who suggested that George simply had to get Luke and Leia's mother out of the way.

 

And it wasn’t even necessary! We know from Leia’s dialogue that their mom died when she was very young. Granted we’d still have to account for why Padmé would just foist Luke off to live on a desert planet while she chilled with her girl on Alderaan.

EDIT: But even that could be explained away as Yoda telling her that it would be a grave risk to let the two children stay with her on Alderaan. Maybe they can sense some Force potential in Luke and Obi-Wan offers to take him with him to hiding just in case?

 

Well she thought Anakin died in the duel with Obi Wan, so maybe she wanted to go with him? She refused to follow down his dark path in life (loyalty to the Republic), but she will follow him in death (loyalty to him)?

 

Fair point, but there was still Luke, Leia, the Republic, etc. That seemed like the perfect time for Padme to be rejuvenated with a fresh surge of resolve and purpose. But then on the other hand, an offscreen death would have also been tricky.

 

This might be a stretch, but maybe she felt bad for him because she was the reason he turned, so she didn't want to abandon him.

Also, she might not know that Force sensitivity is inherited, and thus the danger her children were in. She might've assumed Obi Wan would bring the babies to Naboo (maybe not in person, but he can get 3PO do that or something) for her parents to raise. So to her, the kids would do fine without her, but Anakin "needs" her.

 

I’m neither a mother nor will I ever be, so it may not be my place to judge, but I’m still not convinced that she would immediate put her grown husband over her infant children growing up in a world where they are fugitives from day one. She didn’t abandon him either He abandoned her when he raised his hand to grab her throat, actually no, when he chose to violate the very principles she thought they both honored. Padme’s a mature woman who grew up faster than normal for her age. It doesn’t make sense that that she would be so deluded as to think that the most important thing at that moment was to die to be with her husband who attacked her just because of something she had no control over.

I’m not arguing that you’re wrong about what actually happened, per se, just that what seems to have happened in the film goes against the rest of her character, reducing her to the extreme example of a high school stereotype.

 

It might not have occurred to her that Sidious would be after the children. She might think that they would live a peaceful life on Naboo after her death.

 

Well, she just learned that all the Jedi Younglings were killed, and by her husband no less, and for her sake.

Whether or not she knew about the inheritability of Force sensitivity, It's reasonable to assert that she understood the twins would be in danger if the Sith Lord and/or Anakin could find her through the Force -She more or less witnessed Anakin pinpoint the exact location of his mother in the vast wastelands of Tatooine- And in seeing she is no longer pregnant, the Sith would make it a top priority to determine whether or not the kids were alive and discover their whereabouts. But as it is, it appears she died while still pregnant - the perfect cover.

And if she had lived on and helped the Rebellion the Sith could've/would've found her & used her in locating the leadership such as Organa & Mothma, and end the Rebellion before it got on it's feet.


Btw, she didn't think Anakin died in the duel. She has no idea what happened after the choking. Upon waking, she asked if he was alright, but received no answer from Obi-Wan, meaning that at least he wasn't dead.


To my knowledge, nobody has a problem with Arwen choosing to forfeit her immortality to be with Aragorn. Why, in another fantasy tale, is it seen as codependent or whatever, if Padmé accepts the fate of everyone's choices -including her own- and dies along with the golden age of the Republic? Which ends up being the best & only way to protect the kids.

If you strip away the details, the fates of Padmé & Arwen are quite similar; they accepted the consequences of following their heart, rather than what others expected from them.

Not everyone is immortal or married to a Jedi and pregnant with their child, so I don't know how well these tales transpose into real-life lessons, but even if they do, what's wrong with a cautionary tale? It'd be boring if every movie was a "what to do" lesson.
I've always felt Star Wars was telling us to follow our hearts, our own paths, but to be prepared for the consequences that may bring. And that's about as good a life lesson as you can get.


It's like "the bigger they are, they harder they fall". And Padmé & Anakin's love for each other was very big. It was 100%

She loved Anakin and went to him on Mustafar to discover the truth and help him - running or avoiding him would be against her character. She knew if what Obi-Wan said was true it would break her heart, but she felt it was worth the risk because she had faith in Anakin and knew that deep down he was a good person.

But she learned that Obi-Wan was right, and worse. And now her fate was sealed. The devastation of her discovery was a lethal blow, but she was strong enough to deliver the twins as well as acknowledge the hope that Anakin was not completely lost, which carried over into Luke.

I like Phantom Calamari's notion that it was in her approaching of the light that she was able to confirm that there was good remaining in Anakin. Luke sensed it through the Force, but Padmé knew it through her bond of love with him.

Luke chose to save his friends while sacrificing the completion of his training, and we see he'd rather plummet to his death than join Vader. And likewise, in RotJ he would rather die than become The Emperor's apprentice. And Anakin sacrificed his life to save his son. It turns out Padmé set the foundation & precedent for all of this.
Star Wars is a tale about choices, compassion, bonds, trust, hope, consequences and sacrifice, and Padmé embodies that in every way.

 

If they weren't Force sensitive and Anakin died, they would be like any other baby in the galaxy. The Emperor would have no reason to be after them.

I thought no answer meant dead. Obi Wan knows Padme still loves Anakin. If Anakin were still alive, he would've just told her that. But because (he thinks) Anakin is dead and it would hurt Padme more to know that, he doesn't say anything, but it is still understood.

 

Her last words were that there was still good in Anakin. If she thought he was dead, she wouldn’t be saying that. She’d be reacting in grief.

Besides, what was Obi-Wan going to tell her? “Oh, I left him limbless and on fire on the banks of a lava river, but I’m sure he’ll be all right.”

 

Padme's condition (she is exhausted and weak after what happened) "liberates" Ob Wan to answer her. After her question he goes straight to the cockpit so they didn't have the chance to talk about Anakin after this. But I think that this is not a real question. She knows that he is alive because she loves him and she feels him (remember the scene Padme ruminations) as Anakin feels her. And this is because of their love. The love overcomes everything (in ROTJ Vader feels Luke's presence and the Emperor doesn't because of Anakin's feelings towards the as he thought, the forever lost son, the last gift from Padme). Padme says this becuase no matter what she still is more concerned about Anakin and not about herself and she is feeling that he is in big trouble.
Padme would never give up for Anakin. In the end even the Emperor understands this because how he "kills" Anakin and left Vader to invade him completely? He tells that Anakin killed Padme (which we know is not like that although he is involved in all that brings ti her death but he didn't kill her.). Is not enough for the Emperor to say that Padme is dead; this would lead Anakin to desperation and grief. But to say that he killed her: this brings the anger and the self hate, in short, this brings Vader in the scene. And is because Padme is the pillar of good in Anakin's life. I think the maniac chase for Luke in TESB now makes sense: Luke is the only one that left from Padme (Vader doesn't know about Leia) and the biggest proof that she indeed was alive as he felt it.

 

@Subtext Mining
About Arwen, she wasn’t dying when she was needed by Middle Earth or Rivendale. If she had children with Aragorn, then they presumably lived long lives without being in danger from Sauron. That would be more equivalent to Padme joining Vader and siding with the Empire, or Padme and Anakin running away from the galaxy with their children.

And I agree that Padme’s statement “There is still good in him,” would be moot if she thought he was dead.

I always interpreted the Birth and Reborth scene as Padme and Vader sensing each other during their respective medical procedures, similar to the scene where Anakin is in the Temple and Padme in her apartment.
This is supported by the line “She was alive, I felt it!”
He had just felt her in the Force, and then nothing. Who’s to say Padme didn’t feel him as she had before. Of course, that’s just my interpretation.



Aside from that, even if there was no Empire, Padme, a young, otherwise healthy woman, had children that needed a mother. Their Force-sensitivity should have no bearing on that.

 

The similarity between Arwen and Padme's choices is symbolic and can be seen in the essence of their choices: they choose to stay with the man they love no matter that they can or in the case of Arwen will loose everything else. Of course there are differences in their situation and I think they are obvious but both have to choose with all the consequences of it. Padme chooses to save Anakin and if is necessary to leave everything except him and the child(ren). She didn't succeed in saving him but she did save the children. By the way nobody says that the choice should lead to happy ending: Arwen chooses to be with Aragorn even if is unknown if he would survive the war (in the book this is presented in a different way but the essence is the same). She could be left with nothing in the end (fortunately is not like that) but she have to choose with all the risks of that. Padme's options are similar and she chooses to save Anakin. By the way, Anakin is the one who thinks that he could avoid the consequences of his choice in ROTS but of course he can't he pays it double in the end if I can say so.

 

Obi Wan himself thought Anakin would die, so his response to Padme reflects that.
And let's look at it from Padme's perspective:
1. She knew that Obi Wan was there to kill Anakin (hence why she refused to tell him Anakin's location).
2. She saw Anakin get super angry when he saw Obi Wan there.
3. She sees Obi Wan come back alone. At this point, she should already be around 99.9% sure that Anakin got killed.
4. She asks Obi Wan if Anakin is alright, but he doesn't say anything. Why is that? Most likely it's because the answer is the one she doesn't want to hear.

Regarding her comment "there's good in him" being moot if she thought he was dead, that's how I felt at first too. But on second thought, I think she can still speak on behalf of her dead husband.

Regarding Anakin saying that he felt she was alive, I assumed it meant during the choke. He let go knowing she was still alive. I believe he wasn't talking about a corpse when he said "You will not take her from me."


It also may not have been a conscious decision to die. Had someone asked her to choose between life and death, she might choose life out of responsibility for the children etc. She might have simply had a desire to die, and this desire subconsciously shut down her body systems.

I disagree that he paid double. Had he refused to obey Sidious, things would have turned out even worse for him. Sidious would probably torture Padme until either Anakin surrenders or she dies. So Padme dies a slow gruesome death, the babies might die during the torture (if not, it's because Sidious ripped them out of the womb and plans on raising them as his apprentices), and Anakin gets killed afterwards. His suffering is not because he chose the wrong side, but because he lost.

 

She only expresses that hope in Anakin's goodness in the moment right before she dies. She only sees the light once she's too far through the door to turn back, or to even want to turn back.

She can't hold on for her children any more than she does, because her heart is broken and it is killing her. It takes the last of her strength to give birth to them. She's like a dying universe giving birth to a new one. It's something that has to happen the way it does. It's a metaphysical statement on the nature of reality.

Then why all the carefully crafted symbolism?

Of course he had to get her out of the way. She's dead in the originals. That doesn't mean there wasn't a purpose behind having her die in the specific way she did. There were a million ways she could have died, and Lucas chose this one.

He even included some pretty striking references to 2001: A Space Odyssey during this sequence to drive the point home:







A death bed that is also a birthing bed. A ghostly image of a fetus in an ovum-like circle suspended over the bed. A horizontal oval in the upper center of the composition, with a large circle in the middle of the oval. This oval shape (further evoking the image of the egg) is repeated throughout the shot in various sizes and configurations, including the shape of Padme's bed. I'd say Lucas is pretty obviously referencing a very specific shot from one of his favorite movies here--a shot that is all about spiritual notions of death and rebirth, on a cosmic scale.

I also think it's undeniable that the mother-as-Christ motif is a central element of the prequels which Lucas deliberately developed, and which Campbell very clearly elaborated on in a conversation which took place at Lucas's own ranch by Lucas's own invitation. Campbell elaborates on this mother-as-Christ concept even more explicitly in the published version of that conversation, though I don't own my own copy and so I can't quote from it at the moment. All of which is to say that it's a concept which Lucas would certainly have been exposed to, even if the clear evidence within the films themselves (blatantly obvious crucifixion and pietà imagery with the mother placed in the Christ position) wasn't proof enough. I think much--even if not all--of the analysis I have made in this thread is fairly well-supported and backed by reasonable evidence and argument, both textual and extratextual.

Lucas is no simpleton, nor is he a lazy filmmaker. I personally don't think it's fair to dismiss all this so blithely. You're of course still free to dislike the direction Lucas took.

 

I haven’t said anything about Lucas himself, especially about his general filmmaking abilities.

I just find it annoying that he chose for Padme to die of a broken heart. It’s canonically what happened, but annoying nonetheless as it seems to go against her otherwise strong, determined character.

 

Sorry, I wasn't responding to you with that part.

What I was saying to the other poster is that I think it's unfair to simply write off the manner of Padme's death as arising only from a supposed incapability and/or apathy on Lucas's part when it came to the writing process. I think there's plenty of evidence that Lucas actually put a lot of thought into Padme's death and specifically chose to do it this way for concrete thematic reasons. Whatever you think of the result.

Even strong, determined people can succumb to heartbreak. Anakin certainly does. He's so heartbroken he allows himself to be murdered and replaced by an evil alter-ego. It should be remembered that Anakin himself also suffers a broken heart and loses the will to live. The difference is that Padme gives the last of her strength to birthing the Skywalker twins, while Anakin gives the last of his to birthing Vader.

 

I disagree. I'm sorry but all this is pure speculation from your part. We don't know what exactly could Sidious do with Padme. He could arrange her death, yes. But we can make such conclusion because of his way of thinking not because there are such allusions in the movie (so we cannot speculate about any detail in this aspect). Is not what bothers Anakin at this moment. He chooses the wrong side with good intetions as it always happens becuase he desperately wants to save her at all cost. But while for Padme saving Anakin at all cost means risking her life , for Anain means even making a deal with the devil, i.e risking his soul. Padme pays the price but Anakin pays it double: he looses Padme and everything meaningful in his life , he even looses himself.

 

I’m pretty sure if Sidious even touched Padmé, Anakin would kill him in a frenzy. He wouldn’t sit there weeping and begging.

 

Good point. And just because somebody dies doesn't mean they're weak.

The important thing to remember is that Padmé comes away from this with the moral victory.
The only character in the PT to truly do so.

Much like Luke. In RotJ, he could've charged The Emperor; in one last attempt to at least go down fighting. But in offering up his life rather than go to the dark side he had the moral victory. Which inspired Anakin to to do what he did.

Likewise, Padmé could've ran from it all and hid away. Left things to be settled between Ani and Obi-Wan. But that does not go along with her strong, determined character. Ultimately that would've been selfish. As much as we can see she dreaded it, she had to go find out the truth, and to be there for him to help him see his own goodness; because they had a bond in love that she honored. (perhaps love isn't seen as important anymore in our post-modern society).
She believed their love was strong enough to handle whatever sickness or health may come - she didn't want Anakin to abuse his powers for evil and become a monster. In a way she was also doing it for the good of the galaxy. She was the last line of defense between Anakin and full-on Vader, but he blew it.
When she saw that he was planning to wreak havoc she stayed strong and did the hard thing for her by deciding to then walk away.

They had become one, Across The Stars celebrates that.
(Due to the forbiddance, they could've kept their love a mere affair, but they went all in and got married because their hearts were one. A commitment not easily broken).
But when Anakin took a path she couldn't follow and unleashed his rage on her, he ripped them into two broken pieces. Not so much because she took it personally, just the fact that he, who had so much potential for good, was that far gone and their love was forsaken.
Anakin betrayed the Jedi, the Republic and the very love he was trying to protect.
Twice the love, double the fall.
She suffered the consequences of both their actions, but she felt the risk was worth it. Love itself is a risk. She had to go to Mustafar. And thus she has the moral victory.
I couldn't imagine her doing it any other way. This was the hardest, bravest and most moral thing to do.

And in the end it turns out she was right.

Interesting how this topic is the most elusive part of the whole saga. At least in my own experience, it's usually hard to stick anything definitive to it.
And that's perfect!

Very fitting for such a timeless, noble character.

 

I thought it was a combination of emotional trauma from all that happened in such a short space of time - the fall of the Republic/Jedi, the rise of the Empire, Anakin embracing evil, and his role in the Jedi Order's destruction. When you add the physical trauma of Anakin's attack on her and giving birth to twins, I think it was just too much for Padme.

 

Like you said, we, the audience, can make an educated guess about the most reasonable course of events based on what we know about the character. I believe the same applies to Anakin. He might not predict the exact details of what Sidious would do, but he can expect the worst, and would not want to test him.
But regardless of what exactly was going on in Anakin's mind, there was no alternative choice he could have made that would make things turn out better for himself (better for others, maybe, but not for himself). So to me, his suffering is not a result of his choice, but of the situation.

And all Sids has to do is tie Anakin up and taunt him about how powerless he is without the dark side.

 

There's no indication at any point that Anakin is afraid of Sidious harming Padme.