Saga Before the prequels were made, how old were Anakin and Obi-Wan supposed to be?

This is what Han says:

"Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."

Doesn't seem inconsistent. Even regular people who've met and seen Jedi in action wouldn't say that they knew their belief system or understood the source of their power.

Can we assume that Padmé, for example, knows or believes that the Force is an energy field created by all living beings that surrounds and penetrates everyone and binds the galaxy together just or that can guide one's destiny, just because she saw Jedi lift objects and react very fast? No, and neither would the audience had they not listened to Obi-Wan explain it to Luke in ANH. It's just something most people don't understand (even Leia says that). It's almost a running joke throughout the movies. Motti mocks Vader's belief in the Force. Their ability to influence the minds of others is described by most as nothing but a trick. Obi-Wan is just a crazy wizard. Padmé describes their ways as "too reckless". Even Jar Jar mocks them when Qui-Gon says that the Force guides them.

 

I don't see what that has to do with it

Han never says he doesn't understand the Force. He just completely denies it exists

Whether Padme knows the scientific/spiritual aspect of the Force is irrelevant, because she doesn't deny the Force exists

On the other hand, she's not saying that the Force makes Jedi reckless. She's saying Qui-Gon's decision to entrust their fate to a little kid is reckless, and I don't recall him ever telling her he does it because he feels it's the will of the Force - and she's not the only one, since the Jedi Council also disagrees with Qui-Gon's decisions

Incidentally, I think that using Jar Jar as an example of the average person's understanding of the world is a bit generous, since he's not depicted as very bright (or cultured) in general

 

Han being a skeptic makes sense since people tend to be skeptical. Much like people don't believe in God, Han doesn't believe in the Force. If we saw Christ walk on water and heal a quadriplegic, we'd believe real quickly. Han seeing Luke take on Jabba's men with ease would make him believe.

 

I mean, that's exactly what I'm saying

The idea that a guy who grew up during a major galactic war in which Jedi play a big role doesn't believe in the Force is just silly. It's very clear to me that, at least in '77, Lucas imagined a much more significant time skip between trilogies

 

The galaxy is enormous and the amount of people countless. Think of in our own world how you have people out in rural America who have maybe heard the name of the President but don’t know much about them or how they operate.

Then magnify that times a trillion and add about 50 levels of government (the highest we go is country, but in the GFFA, they have planetary, system, sector, and Republic levels).

I’d be shocked if most people in the GFFA even knew what the name of the Chancellor was. That’s my argument Han being ignorant I guess lol

 

@Darkslayer

I'd accept that if Chewbacca was not in ROTS. The fact he is muddles this debate somewhat.

 

Why? Knowing that the Jedi exists doesn't mean anything. Han never met a Jedi until Obi-Wan and Luke. Growing up and hearing stories doesn't mean that he automatically believes in a sentient engery field. That wouldn't change whether fifteen years pass or fifty.

So if I told you that I saw a ghost, you would believe that ghosts are real? You just believe anything that you hear?

 

I would believe my best mate, yes. Especially if I had no reason to doubt them.

Would I believe any old shmuck on the street? not necessarily

 

Fair enough, but not everyone is so easily convinced as I related about my family's experiences. My mom didn't appreciate two people that she loved refusing to believe her. That's what the case is with Han. Sometimes seeing is believing. Someone else's word isn't enough.

 

Hearing something that sounds crazy from one person, of course I'd probably be skeptical

If I grew up in a highly populated area that probably talked about the ongoing war, and if I later had a profession that took me all over the galaxy where there's more than a decent chance I'd have run into countless people who saw such things for themselves, I'd have to be a fool to continue denying something like that exists

Han doesn't have to know that the Force is a mystical energy field, but it's absurd for someone in his position to deny the existence of some kind of space magic that lets you move things with your mind, even if he's never seen it in person himself

 

well, I'd say there is no scientific evidence ghosts exist in the real world

while in the GFFA you have:

- an association calling themselves the Jedi, that serve the government
- these people were generals in the clone wars, not exactly ghosts hiding in shadows in a haunted house
- these generals, soldiers did amazing feats in the clone wars, force jump, telekinesis etc
- midichlorians are scientific microbes that can be studied
- the force isn't exactly a secret power, and the Jedi are not exactly monks that hide in temples in forests (see first point)

imagine someone in the Avengers movies saying

"they're all a bunch of cosplayers and weirdos"

 

You lost me there a bit my friend. How? Chewie didn't witness Mace Windu's attack on Sidious.

 

well, he was with Yoda, and did witness he wasn't some ancient frog dude and actually had some ability (the force) when he killed the clone troopers.
Now I don't expect that Chewy and Yoda had a deep conversation about the concept of the force

nor would I automatically assume, he and Han had a deep conversation about Yoda, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, and even think it's likely Chewy told him about the battle of Kashyyk, and that Yoda or the Jedi were part of that conversation.


Now, there is a difference between not understanding something and not believing,
I suppose it is also possible what Han meant was "I believe the force exists, but I don't believe in the psuedo-religious aspect, nor believe it controls everything"
but then I'm head-canoning his meaning, and I hate doing that.

 

The novelisation's slightly longer phrasing of Han's statement would fit with that:


"I’ve been from one end of this galaxy to the other, and I’ve seen a lot of strange things. Too many to believe there couldn’t be something like this ‘force.’ Too many to think that there could be some such controlling one’s actions. I determine my destiny—not some half-mystical energy field."

 

But she could and it wouldn't be inconsistent, that's my point. Han denies that there is an all powerful force controlling everything. That there is a mystical energy field controlling his destiny. He doesn't deny that there were monks (or regular people) who believed in that sort of thing.

If someone witnessed a Jedi using what we know to be the Force, it doesn't mean one would reach the conclusion that there's a mystical energy field binding and controlling everything. That's information that needs to be taught and explained (and believed in).

No, but she's seeing a Jedi operating (guided by the will of the Force, as they would say), and to an outside viewer like herself, it's reckless behaviour because she doesn't understand it.

The disagreements between the Council and Qui-Gon had nothing to do with that. We see what one would call "reckless" behaviour from more orthodox Jedi like Obi-Wan many times.

Jar Jar is never depicted as stupid. He's depicted as a fool and naive, there's a difference. And the point is that even Jar Jar mocks them.

The average person does not understand the Jedi and their ways. It's all throughout the movies.

 

What was this thread about?

 

Well, now we're just mincing words, and I say that as someone who can be a massive pedant lol

I mean, I feel it's relevant to the topic. The (originally imagined) time gap between trilogies directly informs Anakin's and Obi-Wan's ages

 

But what does any of that have to do with Han knowing about what really happened to Palpatine?

 

Absolutely nothing, why?

did I mention Palpatine in my state of half-sleep?

 

Yet, look at the real world. People who don't believe things when there is empirical evidence supporting it. The real world is made up of fools. The 2020 election is proof that.

All Han knows is that the Jedi participated in the war and many died, which isn't a ringing endorsement. He also thinks that the claims are high dubious and completely exaggerated. Especially since he didn't see it and Luke blocking three shots from a remote was not enough to convince him. Even when Luke destroys the Death Star, he chalks it up to luck. Then he is dismissive of Luke's rescue plan, because of his age and his having to be rescued.

 

What does this have to do with the topic of the thread, which is....

Before the prequels were made, how old were Anakin and Obi-Wan supposed to be?

 

YES!

 

something about ages

happens a lot around these boards, the PT forum is notorious for starting a thread on something and by page 4 be about something totally different.

It started with innocently enough, Seagoat said his piece and as usual people stated "you are wrong!!!" when someone suggests Lucas probably didn't have this all planned in the womb

Seagoat explained his reasonable position, which was met with more "you're even more wrong"

and here we are

haha which post?

 

you're right though, this thread should probably get back to discussing how old they were supposed to be:

uhh about 20 is for Vader

and uhh...mid 40's for Obi-Wan?