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Saga Best PT/ST opening episode: TPM or TFA? *POLL included*

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth Downunder, Mar 5, 2016.

?

TPM or TFA. The better movie is:

  1. The Phantom Menace

    100 vote(s)
    46.1%
  2. The Force Awakens

    117 vote(s)
    53.9%
  1. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    Saying Disney is better at making Star Wars than George Lucas is like saying Satan is better at creating the universe than God. It's blasphemous!
     
    Ezon Pin likes this.
  2. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    It's called a different opinion. Don't have to like but for some people its the truth.
     
    Gamiel likes this.
  3. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    Ditto!
     
    Ezon Pin likes this.
  4. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Uh...
    There were plenty of war in TFA (invasion on Jakku, destruction of the Hosnian system, battle at Takodana, battle of Starkiller Base).
    Certainly more war than TPM, which featured the battle of Naboo, and that's it.

    I'm not in any way saying that you need to like TFA better than TPM, but your post feels more like an attempt at baiting than anything else.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    As for the topic, I absolutely love The Phantom Menace, but I love The Force Awakens even more.
    Both films have their strengths and their weaknesses, and none of them, to me, live up to the greatness of the original trilogy opener A New Hope - possibly the best movie ever made.
    But this won't be an entirely fair discussion until the rest of the ST are out.
     
  5. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Terrible analogy.
     
  6. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    The Force Awakens isn't even the first act.
     
    L110 likes this.
  7. JediChipKelly

    JediChipKelly Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2016
    Obiwan didn't seem to recognize it either as he told Luke in ROTJ that he found Anakin and decided to train him, not QuiGon. ;)
     
  8. AshiusX

    AshiusX Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2016
    You probably joking but Obi-Wan never said or implied that he found Anakin.


    "When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him." Obi Wan
     
  9. Jonipoon

    Jonipoon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2014
    TPM.

    Original story, realistic characters, greater world-building, better exposition, original designs. Need I say more?
     
  10. JediChipKelly

    JediChipKelly Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2016
    I was half joking ;) but you did leave out....

    "I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct just him as well as Yoda. I was wrong."

    Not once does he mention QuiGon.... [face_laugh]

    Again, I'm half joking ;)
     
    AshiusX likes this.
  11. AshiusX

    AshiusX Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2016
    I was on my phone. That doesn't strongly imply Obi-Wan was the one who found Anakin. I guess, you would assume it would be the case without the knowledge of the prequels. You could even say that quote could mean Obi Wan just found Anakin at the temple and he was handled him by the council. Like the traditional way padawans are given to Jedi Knights for training.

    Although, I am curious to how Luke would have reacted to the name Qui Gon. Since they seem to share many traits with each other.



    Both are mavericks. They tend to do thing their own way.
    Both work without who work outside the boundaries of the traditional order..
    Both use green lightsabers.
    One is Anakin's surrogate father. One is Anakin's biological son.
    Both convince Anakin to become a Jedi.
     
    minnishe, Tonyg and Darthman92 like this.
  12. L110

    L110 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2014
    There´s no point in mentioning Qui-Gon in the first place.
     
    Tonyg likes this.
  13. Darthman92

    Darthman92 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2016
    I'd also add how each one managed to help free Anakin from a master he was enslaved to.
     
  14. TwinSunset

    TwinSunset Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2016
    The Force Awakens is a thousands times better than TPM! The fact that it even got a vote on this poll is shocking. TFA, while by no means perfect, got the most essential thing right in a star wars film, the characters. Even if it is ANH remake that's what it sorta had to be! The only thing worth mentioning from the TPM is John Williams score, and no Darth Maul isn't cool. He's a boring character with no substance to him at all, and please dont say that "He's a sith assassin! He's meant to be quiet and broading!" because even if that is true, it doesnt make for a good star wars film villain.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  15. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Why not, it's no different to Boba Fett.

    Or Phasma for that matter.
     
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  16. Sarge

    Sarge Shelf of Shame Person of Culture star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    I don't think that citing those two does much to help your case.
     
  17. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Star Wars is George Lucas. George Lucas is Star Wars. No matter how hard a fanboy tries to mimick the original films, even shot for shot like our little visionary J.J. did, they simply can't recapture the lightning in a bottle, when it originally came from one artist's heart and soul. What you're left with is a hollow imitation. A cold, empty shell.
     
  18. Visivious Drakarn

    Visivious Drakarn Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2013

    That's an interesting remark. I do not question the personal preference of ANH remake being better than TPM, but I do wonder why they had to remake a 40 year old movie instead of going forward and widening the saga.
    Could you please elaborate?
     
    SuperPersch likes this.
  19. TwinSunset

    TwinSunset Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Because after the prequels Lucasfim had to get the fans and the general audience back on board by returning to the Star Wars that they like. The best way to that was to return to the same simple story that made the original so great.
     
    Sarge and DarthCricketer like this.
  20. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    That's not what made ANH great to the masses. It was the innovation on practically every level of the film. At least, that's my perspective.
     
  21. TwinSunset

    TwinSunset Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Yes buts its impossible to ever get innovation on every level if its a sequel. Although I can understand why the ANH issue would bug you i dont think its big enough to ruin the film, Star wars was always more about charcaters than story and the TFA had good characters.
     
    DarthCricketer likes this.
  22. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    As flawed as it is, I easily have to go with THE FORCE AWAKENS, and for one simple reason- I like the characters. I really enjoyed spending time with Rey and Finn, and I’ll be perfectly happy to follow their story next year and see what’s going on with them. I wanna see what happens with Luke Skywalker going forward, and how he’s gonna handle this situation. I wanna see how Leia will deal with Kylo Ren in the wake of Han Solo’s death.

    I cared about exactly two characters in THE PHANTOM MENACE- the Emperor and Jar Jar Binks. I liked the Emperor and wanted to see him win and manipulate more people (and that’s only because I knew who he really was and what his end goal was) and I wanted to see Jar Jar die a horrible painful death. Aside from those two, I literally couldn’t have cared less what happened to anyone else. Obi-Wan Kenobi- didn’t really care about him. I mean, he’s not a horrible character or anything, just sort of a forgettable cipher. Same with Natalie Portman. Anakin Skywalker has a bit of a personality in this film, but I also found him to be slightly obnoxious. He felt like too much of a clichéd, stereotypical ’90s movie wunderkind to me. I mean, I didn’t hate him. I didn’t wanna see him die. But I can’t say that I really cared for him either or that his storyline really interested me. I think I’ve said more than once on these threads that the Emperor is easily the most sympathetic and likable character in the prequels, simply because he’s the only one I identify with and who actually acts like a human being, rather than some sterile emotionless robot or a murderous psychopathic brat.

    Honestly, I think the most important thing THE FORCE AWAKENS needed to do was to get the audience to like the new characters and get people interested in watching their adventures…and in that regard, I’d say it was an unqualified success. THE FORCE AWAKENS is by no means a cinematic masterpiece and I have some very serious problems with the movie, but in terms of establishing a new set of heroes and getting the audience to care about them, it did a fantastic job. And that’s where I think the prequels completely and utterly failed, in my opinion. The characters simply weren’t that interesting and didn’t really engage or excite people. Nobody really cared what happened to Obi-Wan Kenobi or Anakin Skywalker or whatever the hell Natalie Portman’s character was named (Queen Armadillo or something?). And yes, George Lucas had to overcome the hurdle that pretty much everyone knew how this story would end, but I think that if the characters had been more interesting and more relatable, and less flat and plastic and dull, he could’ve overcome that. Just two years later, Peter Jackson released a film called THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING. I knew exactly how that story would end as well, yet I was still excited to follow the adventures of Frodo Baggins and Samwise Gamgee and Aragorn.
     
  23. Negotiator1138

    Negotiator1138 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 23, 2016
    I have to go with The Phantom Menace. I love TFA. I think it has some great characters and spectacular visual effects, but story is king. As great as TFA, the story isn't entirely original. Say what you want about the prequels, but nobody can say those weren't original creative ideas.

    To me, what makes TPM great is the tone it sets. ROTS ends in such a dark and terrible place, and you are really able to track the slow progress of the young innocent Anakin down his path to... pretty much hell (Mustafar.) The character of Vader is such a prominent idea across the world. Almost everybody knows Darth Vader. And when TPM starts off, George Lucas completely subverted everybody's expectation by making Darth Vader into a cute, small, innocent child. It is the total opposite of Darth Vader.

    I think the best acting performance in TPM (and one of the best in the whole saga) would be Pernilla August, Shmi Skywalker. As Anakin's mother, her role in this saga couldn't be understated. That relationship really plays well.

    Also, for the first time, we get to see two fully trained Jedi take on a fully trained Sith Lord. This is definitely a monumental moment for Star Wars, and the Duel of Fates did not dissapoint. I think it is widely recognized as one of the best, if not THE best duel in the entire saga.

    When you put this duel up against Rey and Kylo, it's a no brainer.

    To me, The Phantom Menace brought a new light and perspective to Star Wars, and it makes a wonderful opening to the prequel trilogy. But who knows, the ST trilogy isn't complete, maybe the later movies will give TFA more depth and meaning.
     
  24. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    The Phantom Menace, without any doubts. Bold, innovative, intriguing and in a way old fashioned, i.e. romantic without being a rehash. Ad I like the pace. TFA is like videoclip: it looks dynamic and full of action but actually nothing essential happens. It is too concentrated in throwing fast and full of action (but not emotion) sequences. Also, a difference from TPM leaves too much work for its sequels. Let put this character here and later (maybe) we will explain/show/say who is he really, now let's make some action. Let's put this subject here , but why and with what purposes, we don't care, let the next episode to arrange this mess. Some consider the tax story as not interesting enough but I think it is interesting to see where the WARS began: in a presumably harmless story of some paying of some trade routs.
    Some said that as it is rehash is has to be that way. Well, this is the biggest problem in TFA for me: it had potential to be different but it never develops it (Rey and Finn as unusual characters, the unclear connection Resistance/Republic, etc.). SW was never (before) about being conservative and repeating the old stuff. It has mirroring that is old material rebuild with completely new and interesting elements. Now it doesn't there to take any risk even a technical one and this is sad.
     
  25. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I have to go with TPM, TFA have more charming characters and is an good popcorn flick but TPM is an overall a better film to me. It do a better job presenting the universe, what is going on, the planets we visit and have more and better used breathing spaces. That it has more interesting designs and allow us to take them in (instead of TFA who mostly only focuses on the designs that are OT base) is also a big plus for me.