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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Can someone please explain why Episode V is considered the best?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Logan La Marco, Mar 4, 2016.

  1. Horror_Express

    Horror_Express Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Empire probably had the best writing. That's why I like it, even though it is not my favorite. George reportedly said to Kershner that "It was too good." With the first two movies, there was a lot of intentional appeal to adults as a demographic. Everything since Empire has pretty much been aimed at kids, IMO. However, there is something to say for that approach, as my favorite is RotJ because of how much I saw it as a kid. And I'm still a fan.
     
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  2. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2015
    One of my favourite bits in Empire is at the start of the asteroid chase when Leia shouts "Han get up here!" and then "Asteroids!" as he enters the cockpit. Ford's line here is great as he flicks a switch and sarcastically quips "Oh no"

    It's the deadpan delivery. Makes me smile every time.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  3. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

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    May 18, 2017
    That's a great line. Another great one is "would it help if I got out and pushed?" followed by "it might." Meaning she should get the you know what off his ship. :)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  4. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2015
    Ha yeah. There’s some great comedy amongst the four of them, especially from Threepio who is desperately trying to tell Han about the hyperdrive and he isn’t listening. It’s like classic stage farce.
     
  5. Horror_Express

    Horror_Express Jedi Master star 1

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    Apr 19, 2002
    Jeremy Bulloch’s understated performance as Boba Fett made me a big fan of that character. It is true that Fett didn’t really do much in Episodes V and VI, but his Eastwood-esque approach exudes cool.
     
  6. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2015
    Very true. When Lando is pacing up and down outside the torture room, Fett gives him a really slow look in his direction as if all that is going on around him is just another day at work for him, and Lando’s nervousness is irritating him.
     
  7. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Oddly enough, besides ANH, it's the most watchable SW film of the original saga for me.
     
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  8. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

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    Mar 9, 2001
    I don't really see anything that would make ROTJ more "for kids" than ANH. Yes, Ewoks look like cute little teddy-bears, but there is also plenty of stuff that is quite a bit darker than what is in ANH. I'd also say that a movie like ROTS is a whole lot less aimed at kids than any of the others.

    Star Wars in general has been for all audiences all the time, though if I had to single out some of them for being more aimed at adults, ANH wouldn't exactly be near the top of the list.
     
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  9. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2015
    One of the things that amazes me is when Luke knocks Vader off the Carbon Freezing chamber then jumps down, he then heads through that really cool circular tunnel that lights up when he steps in it. That set is beautiful, and the work that would have gone into building it, only for it to be on screen for a matter of a few seconds.
     
  10. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

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    May 18, 2017
    Cloud City was so well designed and beautiful. ESB is the furthest thing possible from ANH rehash. It threw everyone for a loop back in the day.
     
  11. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    John Williams really comes into his own for the score as well.
     
  12. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    Luke was reckless. Told Obi-Wan Yoda did. But he preferred death over joining Vader. The moment when Leia senses Luke's call is great.
     
  13. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 1, 2014
    Everything set in the carbon freezing chamber and beneath it is my favourite in the entire series. Such a great set and also emotional scenes with real meat to them (Han being frozen and the whole lightsaber fight).
     
  14. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

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    May 18, 2017
    Yeah people in 1980 were unsure if han was going to survive as well.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  15. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 29, 2015
    Now that we have 10 (including RO) movies that directly fit the saga we can still say the two most original are ANH (of course) and TESB. It's kind of funny that TESB was the 2nd film made, but it has IMO by farthe least rehashing of any of the 9 films made since ANH. Every planet/location (other than the falcon) is new, plot is very different, old characters aren't dropped in for no reason, etc. Starting with ROTJ every single SW film since has done some amount of rehashing - which makes the universe feel just a little bit smaller sometimes.

    Also - just watch this sequence... Kershner let's it breath for 15+ seconds after Vader's dialogue... it's just so incredibly perfect. Many times films are too in a rush to get to things and can't let a scene breathe.... the tension just builds here in an incredible way



    Want to stand up and cheer? This little sequence does it for me every single time (and they stole the imperial bridge scene for the graphics in the old x-wing / tie-fighter games)

     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  16. Deanna Montgomery

    Deanna Montgomery Jedi Master star 1

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    Oct 3, 2014
    Leia kicking some stormtrooper butt.

    Darth Vader standing on the bridge of the Executor looking out at the stars while the Imperial March is playing. Masterful.

    I really enjoy Han's quips to 3PO and 3POs irritation with it. Not to forget Leia's various jabs at Han and Chewbacca laughing at them. Still makes me LOL every time.

    The magic tree.

    The asteroid field.

    Lando Calrissian. Oh yeah. The man in a cape.

    Han saying "I know."

    John Williams. Nuff said.

    These are just a few of my favorite things. I was 13 when this movie came out and I remember feeling 100% blown away by it. I went back to see it three more times in the theater, using every bit of my babysitting money. I've asked myself many times if this is my favorite SW movie due to nostalgia, but I can truthfully say no, it is a great film and stands firmly on its own two feet, imo.
     
  17. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

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    May 18, 2017
    agreed. This film is in no, way, shape or form overrated. Possible JW's best score, snappy dialogue, countless classic scenes, expands the universe and characters, and regularly appears on critics top 100 of all time lists. And it is a complete 180 from ANH.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  18. Hernalt

    Hernalt Force Ghost star 4

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    Jun 29, 2000
    "What is the heart of a movie" came up after ROS came out. I offered, "SW77: As if millions of voices had cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. ESB: Between you, me, the tree, the rock. ROTJ: It is too late for me, my son."

    The heart of the OT trilogy is, "Stand by, ion control."
     
  19. Binary_Sunset

    Binary_Sunset Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000
    I agree, except for the words "just a little bit". :)

    If I had my way, no planet would ever be in more than a single SW film.
     
  20. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 11, 2019
    I don't know why "The Empire Strikes Back" is considered the best. Mind you, it's one of my two favorite SW films. But that's just me. And I cannot explain how others would feel about that movie or any other one. If you don't have a high opinion of the movie, then you don't. You know how you feel and that should only matter to you.


    I don't mind "rehashing" if I feel it is done right, used in small doses or used for a specific narrative reason. And I don't mind if it doesn't feel like a complete act of plagiarism.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  21. RandySolo

    RandySolo Jedi Knight

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    Jun 12, 2018
    For me, it's the excellent soundtrack and the scenery. I really liked both Hoth and Bespin.
     
  22. Keycube

    Keycube Jedi Master star 2

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    Jan 19, 2009
    I've struggled for years with not understanding why TESB is viewed in such high regard. It struck me recently that the movie is in fact perhaps too perfect; that it doesn't resonate with me emotionally like ANH did (the shock value was gone), and so the fact that I was more or less "meh" about the narrative is in fact the highest compliment I can pay to it, in that it dovetailed perfectly with a masterpiece like ANH, with no continuity issues.

    So, when I get past the whole "It's so perfect, that I feel nothing" bit, I realize how ambitious it was in terms of introducing new characters and hardware. Hell, the movie could have stopped after the AT-AT sequence, and i would have got my money's worth. But then after that bit of magnificence we still get Yoda, Boba Fett, the Slave 1, Lando, Bespin, etc...talk about not resting on your laurels!

    At the time, the movie for me was done in a bit by the Han/Leia romance, which put me off (I was a kid, and his "cool" factor went down a notch). I was also "meh" on Yoda and was never that big on the hyper-focus on Force stuff anyway. But that was just a personal take and small potatoes. When I now I look objectively at that film and what it had to accomplish as a near impossible task - to follow-up ANH and appease the newly created super-geeks AND the masses - it may be one of the most impressive cinematic feats ever.

    EDIT: Although...no matter how perfect TESB may be, it must always be #2 behind ANH, as it did all the introductions and heavy lifting in terms of themes, hardware, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  23. Keycube

    Keycube Jedi Master star 2

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    Jan 19, 2009
    DELETE
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  24. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2015
    I have said this before regarding my feelings for The Empire Strikes Back. Considering that Star Wars is supposed to be space opera, to my mind, Empire is the one that is the most operatic.

    It plays out like a stage melodrama, starting out with the big battle before turning then into a much smaller, personal drama. You could play out the scenes from Empire on an empty theatre stage with no props, and it would still be good. That is because of the characters and the interaction between them all, it just plays out so organically.

    I think that my favourite scene is the one where Vader comes out of the interrogation room on Cloud City, ignores a frantic Lando completely and says to Boba Fett (who has been stood there watching Lando pace up and down nervously)

    "You can take Captain Solo to Jabba the Hutt, after I have Skywalker"

    To which the bounty hunter then protests! He actually lodges a complaint and protests to Darth Vader (the first of his two complaints)

    "He's no good to me dead" (this is better with Jason Wingreen's voice btw)

    But Vader, who normally chokes to death those who defy him, breezily walks off down that beautifully designed, dark red art-deco corridor and dismisses his concerns.

    "He will not be permanently damaged"

    Then the obviously nervous Lando tries again

    "Lord Vader, what about Leia and the Wookiee?"

    "They must never again leave this city"
    You get the impression that Vader doesn't actually mean any of this, but is anxious to be rid of Lando so that he can get on with preparing his elaborate trap.

    "That was never a condition of our agreement nor was giving Han to this bounty hunter!" Lando is bricking it now, you can hear the panic in his voice.

    "Perhaps you think you are being treated unfairly?"

    This one of the strengths of Vader as a villainous character. He is calm and assured, and his threats are veiled, but always menacing. This is why the Rogue One scene is so good, because it provides a juxtaposition for how violent and dangerous he can be when he needs to be, but for the most part he just quietly menaces people. Fantastic.

    "No" concedes Lando, and you can hear that his throat sounds dry here.

    "Good. It would unfortunate if I had to leave a garrison here" Another veiled threat. The lift doors close, and that is the end of that conversation as far as Vader is concerned. Boba Fett knows it too, which is why he immediately spins on his heel and leaves. No point hanging around here.

    "This deal is getting worse all the time" Lando closes out with the exact same thought as the rest of the audience lol.

    It is a really great scene.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  25. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    It's all about personal choice. There are a lot of people who regard "The Empire Strikes Back" as the best. But it's not really a fact, just an opinion.