Can you be a right winger or a left winger

IMO, this is exactly what the OP was talking about in the original post. By identifying with Christianity (as many people on the right do), it seems that the tenets of the faith require an almost demonization of their opponents in order to get their agenda forward. The honest belief that certain actions are "sins" and there can be no acceptance of sin in the laws of the country means that some members of the right will go out of their way to pass laws which hold up to their faith, claiming that their ideas are the "truth."

On the left, there is a different "truth" (insert obligatory Obi Wan quote) which tends to be more "the government shouldn't play favorites based on anyone's religion." When that is truth threatened, there seems to be a visceral response to the people who are threatening it (e.g. Calling members of the right wing "anti-Woman" or "bigot).

Both sides continue to do this.

However, religion should never be allowed to dictate the laws of a country. You can't live in a free society if you are having to live up to a different standard of morality than your own. Religion is based on belief...hence why its called faith. There is no absolute truth to the religion at all and it should never be used to deny rights. Just because religion thinks something is wrong, doesn't mean everyone thinks it's wrong. The governments place in this is to create an equal playing field where everyone feels like they can get a fair deal regardless of their sexual orientation, decision to do what they want with their body, or belief in a deity.

 

You understand nothing, Merkurian.

Liberals are determined to qaush every vestiage of Christianity, not just here, but all over the world. Christians are either to submit or face penalty. When they stand on the Word of God, they are mocked, ridiculed, and called intolerant, bigots, and worse. You (liberals) may think you've beaten us, but we will always fight and we will have the last laugh. You have the right to push for what you want, but we have the right to stand against it. God defined sin in His Word and has never gone back on it. His Word is absolute and has always stood the test of time. The liberals who mock and bash Christians for their beliefs and have been pushing to override traditional values that have endured for centuries, yet call for tolerance, are blatant hypocrites. Homosexuality, murder, adultery, rape, incest, ect. have always been and always will be sin. You people are free to do what you want, but be aware that you are flouting God and spitting in His face. Your lifestyle and beliefs are your own, but you do not have the right to compel Christians to accept your perversions and violate their religious beliefs, which is what is happening today. Morality is going down the tubes. Our once great country is falling apart because of the abandonment of the values that our forefathers, including the Pilgrims, held dear.

I suggest to liberals the next time you accuse someone of being a bigot, open your eyes and take a good long look in the mirror. What do you see?

Liberals have already chosen whom they will serve.

"But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

 

What? Where? This is so not happening. We are free to practice our religion openly pretty much in all western progressive country. A huge majority of Americans call themselves Christian, the government recognizes Christian religious holidays, Churches remain open and there aren't any "liberals" trying to stop that all

What penalties? Having to follow the law? I haven't paid any penalties.....

The only time I see Christians being called that is when they actively go against equality in a legal sense.

This is what OP was talking about. This is a demonization of the left which is a good sound bite, but there is not a shred of evidence that this is the case. Why is the left hypocrites? Because we don't tolerate religion being used to force their beliefs on everyone? No one is telling Christians not to have these beliefs.

And pushing to "override traditonal values?" What traditional values? Values have always changed since time began. I'm sure someone, somewhere said "You believe the earth is not at the center of the universe!?! That's going against traditional values. Its the truth...etc....etc." I know people said "You can't marry that black woman! That's against traditional values!"

One religion's sin shouldn't be codified into law if not everyone follows it. Especially if it has no impact on society at large.

According to your religion. Not everyone else's.

 

When you prove the existence of where you're getting these laws, then we can talk about their place in public policy.

However, i think it's worth noting something about this:

This isn't even true. Rhode Island, one of the 13 colonies that would lead to the United States of America, was founded on the concept of separation of Church and State, and of religious freedom.

It's actively revisionist history to treat America as religion-based country when the founding was inherently secular.

 

I just find it incredible that a person can voice this position of non-judgmental "hate the sin but not the sinner" but then come out with all of these statements about how the country is "falling apart" and going to hell and is on "a downward spiral" because homosexuals want the same rights as others and they are getting those rights. These kind of statements go beyond a reasonable condemnation of a person's soul on the basis of their perceived sin (according to religious principles) and move into a condemnation of the person and their interaction with the social, economic and political institutions of society, like a virus or a cancer that needs to be treated to avoid the death of the patient.

I just find it incredibly sad that people can really think this way. Sad and barbaric.

 

There's much more to being a Christian than simply praying or attending a church service. Jesus told all his followers to live as examples of Him in this broken world, and one of the main ways we do that is through witnessing. At present, certain laws are being made which prevent us from fulfilling that command.

Jesus declared all food spiritually clean in the New Testament, and some people have disorders like hypoglycemia, which requires them to eat every few hours because of blood-sugar levels. Punishing the lawyers in divorce cases would be wrong, unless they were knowingly helping one spouse cheat the other;

Not by a long shot; I'm just redeemed by His grace.

Jesus said, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength", and "Love your neighbor as yourself". Someone who truly loves God and places others before themselves would not participate in homosexuality, because its medically dangerous and also helps the other party remain in rebellion against God. That's just one example, but you get my drift. Living as "gay" is no better or worse than any other sin to God, but it is equal in consequence to things like rape, theft, murder, abuse, lying, etc. At its core, every sin is born from the same desire: our way over God's.

 

Here's one of the best illustrations I've seen in a while, that explains divine justice from a Biblical standpoint.

 

I think you should go back, and actually use the mind and heart that God blessed you with... you're the type of person that gives Christianity a bad reputation. You're the type of "Christian" that turns people away from Jesus and his message.


Here's some videos:





Marriage is not just a religious ceremony. It's also a civil contract. You can get married in a church, but not have it recognized by the government. You can get married in the eyes of the government, and not in a church.

There are also several churches that have gay religious wedding ceremonies, should they have their religion discriminated against? The U.S. government is not supposed to give preference to any religious establishment, as it says in the 1st amendment.

So, taking religions out of this, the Supreme Court has realized that there's no reason these people/couples don't deserve equal protection under the law. And really, isn't this just an extension of the male/female equality movement? If the government should be sex-blind, then the gender(s) of a couple who wants to get married shouldn't matter.

Lastly, the Bible itself says in the Epistle to the Galatians that male/female distinctions don't matter because male and female, free and slave, gentile and jew, are all one in God (Galatians 3:28). And Jesus never condemned homosexuality or gay marriage, or really commented on the issue. In fact, there's evidence that the Roman Centurion Jesus met was begging for his male lover to be healed, and Jesus gave him the greatest compliment in the entire Bible for his love and devotion to his friend (greater faith than all of Israel), and didn't say anything like "you're sinning, go and sin no more," no it was just the great compliment. And really, why else would an occupying soldier seek out a radical wandering jewish preacher and ask for help unless he really loved this man and would risk anything for him? In the original Greek, the Centurion referred to his friend as his "pais" which means a lover from a lower social ranking, "pais" was also used in the New Testament to describe Hagar's relationship to Abraham in the original Greek. Also, Jesus said many of the commandments of the Old Testament were now fulfilled (such as the stoning disobedient children one), and said only what's in a person's heart can defile them. It's true that Paul seemed to contradict Jesus and condemn it a couple times (depending on the translation, it varies in what he meant), but he also seemed limited in his understanding, thinking such a relationship could only be lustful, when we know now that same-sex couples are the same as opposite-sex couples. Paul was also very quick to judge others, when Jesus warned that all those who judge will be judged and all those who condemn will be condemned, but all those who forgive will be forgiven and all those who love will be loved. God is love, all those who love actually live in God, and God lives in them. And I'm sure you're familiar with 1 Corinthians 13.

But all those religious arguments don't really matter, since we live in America, where there's supposed to be liberty and justice for all, with the freedom to believe what you want and not allowing any religious interpretation to dominate government and people of different belief.

Please watch those videos, especially the first one.

 

Accusing people who disagree with you politically of serving Satan is not conducive to a healthy debate/discussion. In fact, nothing you've done can be considered discussing/debating in good faith. You've merely gotten on a podium and preached your religion at everyone. Bible-thumping, nothing more.

 

If serving Satan is wrong, then I don't ever want to be right.

 

Paul said that homosexuality was the result of sexual confusion combined with selfish lust.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 1:20-30

 

Paul was wrong. He was a mortal, flawed man... not Jesus.

Go back and read what I just posted.

 

What leads you to believe that God is either sexist or fearful of homosexuals? Men and women are inherently different by design, and not just in sexual terms either.

 

God is not homophobic. He loves every person. So stop with that sort of comments. It's really getting old. And you'll notice that I have not called any one of you a bigot or such; I'm trying to respect you. Is it too much to ask that you do the same and stop with sauch language?

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians 3:28&version=NIV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians 13&version=NIV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 John 4:7-21&version=NIV

 

Jesus repeatedly mentioned the righteous destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and one of the most often-cited sins of the people in those cities was homosexuality. Here's the verses for Jesus' own words.​

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Luke 17:28-32; Matthew 10:15; 11:24; Mark 6:11​

 

Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed because of homosexuality. This has been well-documented.

Watch the video.

 

If you really want a focused discussion on this subject, I'll start a thread about it so this one doesn't get derailed any further.

 

Don't. I've participated in this debate on these boards for over 10 years. You're not bringing up anything new. Let's keep it right here.

If this Senate is about to go down, it's a gift from God that this be the last great debate on this board.

 

You call Paul being quick to judge? What a hoot! When he wrote his epistles, he did so as God commanded and inspired him to do, nothing more, nothing less. You, my firend, are trying to force the Message to coexist and change to fit today's world, which is a no-no.

 

This kind of thread is like religious masturbation for fundies. I'm going to stop now as it is making me feel a bit dirty.

 

And the mentioned verse about women being silent is only in a church setting, but they are not expected to be silent all the time, as Paul had no problem with them speaking and prophesying in churches. Women are simply supposed to listen when the men in authority speak about the Word.

Your lack of reading and comprehnding the Bible, your's and timmoishere's both, clearly shows in posts like this. All you do is glance at a vrese and take it at face value without considering the context or the deeper meaning behind it, is that not so?