Can't Love, What About pleasure?

How do you have sex without giving in to lust and mindlessness?

In some Christian families (as an example), I understand that the idea for sex is strictly meant to be for pro-creation. The couple therefore say a prayer to rid themselves of those kind of thoughts, before they embark upon their actual motive. This will then hopefully ensure that their act, will bring about a child borne out of mutual respect and love for the greater Glory of God.

 

From what I read some where, Ki-Adi-Mundi race is rare and the council has allowed him (and other dwindling aliens) to procreate to try and sustain their numbers.

I don't know where I read that though.

 

I've read all of the George Lucas Biographies
out there, and they've become a bit jumbled in
my mind, but in one the author has some very
interesting observations about the way GL portrays
sex and romance in his movies (or the lack there of).

His take was that GL writes these stories in the
spirit of say a twelve year old boy, in that time
when it's all about pure adventure without all the
"messy complexities" that come when they discover girls.

This is not my theory mind you, but it was an unique
take. GL gives his take on this on the AOTC commentary
track. Go to the scene where Anakin first enters the
Tusken camp. GL talks about the need for jedi to
stay "un-attached" to things, people et. They are
like warrior Monks or Teutonic Knights it seems.

So my theory, no messing around.

 

From what I read some where, Ki-Adi-Mundi race is rare and the council has allowed him (and other dwindling aliens) to procreate to try and sustain their numbers.

In the databank at the OS it says that Ki-Adi-Mundi has a few wives back on Cerea, his homeplanet.

 

Jedi can love, but they can't become attached to a single person as in a marriage or a love relationship. When ObiWan says "be mindful of your feelings" it was because Anakin says being around Padme was "intoxicating" and he was clearly very attached to her in a way that could cloud his Jedi judgement. Yoda said, "seeing you alive brings warm feelings to my heart" so the feelings we associate with love and attachment are not forbidden. The attachment and possession of a commited relationship is forbidden only because of a question of commitment. The commitment that arises from a love commitment would partially eclipse the commitment to the Jedi protection ideals, which above all else must preserve the safety and wellness of everyone above just one person.

 

Yeah, all that "no attachment whatsoever" stuff is BS. You can't tell me that Jedi Masters and their students don't form friendships and bonds.

 

Yeah, I freakin agree. Its quite BS. Lucas WANTS to tell us that love IS essential. At least in the CT.

 

I would lean more towards attachment outside of the order are forbiden. Like Anakin and his mother, but internal Jedi friendships are okay.

 

I think some people often miss the point that just because a character/group says/does something in the films doesn't make it right. I think GL has the thing about no attachment in there to bring these sort of questions into our mind and to see that it's really not possible. However, at the same time that it was wrong for the Jedi to try to deny they were human (well..some of them ), it was also wrong for Anakin to become obsessive about Padme. That's the kind of attachment the Jedi were afraid of, and for a good reason.


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

SoloJones,

Very true. Too often people will attack a film as being racist or sexist because it depicts characters who espouse those sorts of beliefs. The deipiction of a behavior or a worldview in a film does not constitute the filmmakers endorsement of such.

 

Exactly. I don't understand that kind of criticism. It's like saying Spielberg was supporting the Holocaust by making Schindler's List

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Word. The whole point is, "no attachments" is an unnatural position. You just can't do it.

I think that the Jedi mostly have "friends with benefits" going on. And as for pregnancy, I'm sure they've got way-advanced forms of birth control.

 

Spike Edit: No innuendo here. Thank you very much.

 

First, wouldn't it be sort of a double-standard to say you can't have love[attachment] but *can* have pleasure? Doesn't make much since.
And even if they did, why would they have to worry about pregnancy, I'm sure they can control *certain* things with the force (then again, anakin gets padme pregnant... but maybe if it were two jedi?).

I welcome all takers.... (right... hahaha)

 

In some Christian families (as an example), I understand that the idea for sex is strictly meant to be for pro-creation. The couple therefore say a prayer to rid themselves of those kind of thoughts, before they embark upon their actual motive. This will then hopefully ensure that their act, will bring about a child borne out of mutual respect and love for the greater Glory of God.


Woah, woah, woah. Where'd you get that mumbo-jumbo? You make sex sound more like a ritual, a routine. Sex, to Christians, is a gift one gives to another to seal their marriage's love. Of course it's also used to pro-create but that's the physical, and technical side.

 

xionice,

That is not a double standard. A double standard is when there are two different rules for equally entitled people or groups of people.

I think what you mean to call this situation is a contradiction. However, even then you would be incorrect. Pleasure is mostly of the body. Attachment is of the mind. They can be entirely distinct sensation, even if they can also overlap.

 

Of course Jedi form attachments. Masters and Padawans are attached to each other, obviously.

They're allowed to indulge their appetites, at least to some extent - they eat and drink beyond what is necessary to sustain themselves. Lust is no more an emotion than hunger is.

But once they succumb to lust, I'm sure many Jedi become attached.

The problem is that the Jedi Code is impossible to follow. Since every Jedi breaks it is of little value as a guide to restrained behaviour for those, like Anakin, who have difficulty dealing with their own emotions.

 

Lust is no more an emotion than hunger is.

Hunger isn't an emotion. It's a physical sensation of the nervous system informing the body that it needs food. Emotions are mental/psychological sensations that can create physical sensations. There's a difference.

 

I think sexual pleasure is probably VERY much discouraged. The only reason it might not be totally forbidden is
1. The jedi recognize that there is a driving force in all creatures to procreate and lust is part of that, so mistakes will be made there, so long as the Jedi doesn't go so far as to let that distract him or her in their missions then it can be overlooked.
2. As in Ki Adi's case, there may be reasons why a Jedi may need to mate to help keep their species going and such
3. It is entirely possible that Jedi are possessing of some of our old now "old fashioned" values and think that sex should only occur after marriage, shocking I know. SO I would tend to say that if a Jedi were not allowed to marry, they wouldn't even consider having sex (generally anyway). So with that in mind, why bother banning marriage AND sex?

I think what people need to remember is these are Jedi, not drunken frat boys and sorority girls who have to release all their urges or they think they'll burst. As Jedi they would have been raised to discourage and suppress feelings of love AND lust and encouraged to spend their time contemplating the Force and learning instead. Doesn't mean they never have those urges, it just means that, like being wary of some attachments, they must strive to be above lustful feelings as well. And just like with love and attachments, they may not always be able to conquer that and stop themselves from loving or lusting after someone, but I don't buy for a second that just because GL said that jedi were not celibate that there was all sorts of bed hopping going on in the Temple. It is just WAAAAYYY too unjedi-like for my tastes. These are honorable men and women, not nymphomaniacs.

sg

 

Spiritgurl,

Regarding your third point...

The Jedi might also have advanced beliefs and realize that a sexual appetite does not make one a nymphomanical frat boy or sorority girl. Enjoying carnality does not make someone less honorable. It is an act that has no moral value one way or the other. As long as there is no lying or trickery used by one in order to find a partner or even a hundred partners, then there is no besmirched honor. On the contrary, there are plenty of virgins out there who are real scumbags.

 

ahhh but their advanced beliefs could instead give them the higher understanding that they do not need sex or have the need to receive pleasure in any sense beyond the pleasure of being in tune with the force. So they wouldn't be bothered with thoughts of sex in the first place. Not that I'm saying that's how it is, because they are still human (well some of them) but I'm just saying that this is the most likely attitude the Jedi would have on this matter. They have much more important things to do with their time anyway.

okay let's look at it another way, Possession IS forbidden. Why? because having a lot of possessions can lead to things like greed (becoming obsessed with getting more), jealousy (wanting what others have perhaps even to the point of doing others harm) and fear of losing things (fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, you get the picture...) Too much sex/lust on the other hand can lead to things like greed (becoming obsessed with getting more sex), jealousy (wanting someone else's partner to the point of doing others harm), and fear of losing things (such as losing your favorite partner or not having a partner at all). Sex can be as addictive as any drug, to the point of being just as distracting as an emotional attachment would be. Sex can also lead to emotional attachment which we have already been told is to be avoided in the first place.

So why in blazes would the Jedi openly allow sex and lust but not let jedi own something like their very own speeder? The answer is they don't allow it, sex is discouraged because it would be considered just as dangerous as any possession or attachment even for a well trained Jedi.

sg

 

Because sex is good and encourages sharing.

 

From what I read some where, Ki-Adi-Mundi race is rare and the council has allowed him (and other dwindling aliens) to procreate to try and sustain their numbers.

But why does he need to be married? Can't he just donate sperm or whatever it is his species has?

 

Well, I personally do not see the Jedi having sex. As I said before, since they cannot have children(as is the norm among most Jedi), sex would simply be something to get lost in for a few moments at a time..something to lose all thought in. While that's perfectly acceptable for non-Jedi, the Jedi themselves have a strict code of non-attachment, and mindfullness....things hard to maintain when sex is a factor.

 

Hmmmmmmmmm this is a tough topic,

I dont see jedi's to be having sex, because the way they are. But i think that its not a big deal to the jedis or else it would be on the code.

Sure they can be friends with people, there is no way you cant be friendly that you see someone frequently. Well let me put it in this way, you are always going to be friendly to people you know and well if you see those people alot and both get along with each other, it would be hard not to be friends. You cant make every jedi be rude or mean to other people delibrately so there is not a slightest bond. They are Peace keepers, not love soldiers or something.

I think they would be allowed to have sex just as long as there is no attachment, but i think that it should only happen if its natural, and no jedi should go looking for sex, only if the time comes up.