ST Carrie Fisher (Leia) in Episode VII (Sad News posted on Page 269)

Are you seriously trying to state that people with mental health problems and drug addictions make for better proffesionals? Maybe everyone should take up drugs and ECT to improve themselves?

PS - I was at the recording of the QI Xmas show several months ago. I was in awe of her... but my opinion remains unchanged.

 

DarthPJ Yes, as far as entertainment industry professionals are concerned. There are many studies illustrating a link between a bipolar disorder and creativity/talent, for example. I think these kinds of psychological characteristics in the industry are more common than most people think. I certainly wasn't aware of Ledger and Hoffman's addictions until their untimely deaths. After all, this isn't the kind of thing that's openly expressed by most folks. A few have revealed mental health issues, but I'm sure many don't speak of it, for obvious reasons.

Other examples of actors with bipolar--Vivian Leigh, Linda Hamilton, Marriette Hartley, Stephen Fry, Richard Dreyfuss, Rene Russo, Catherine Zeta Jones.

 

All I'm saying is that during the OT you would not have known from her performance or voice that she was an addict, now 30 years later those past problems are visible in her voice and mannerisms I think.

 

Parseltongue

 

This is where acting comes in; she can act despite her past challenges.

And yes, there have been numerous studies on creativity / mental health link, replicated numerous times.

I just prefer to not judge people due to mental illness and past addictions, especially since so many of us currently qualify as being mentally ill.

Six months worth of filming , no doubt her part is way more than a cameo.

 

What I'm trying to say is she can't be a lightsaber-wielding Jedi badass.

That's not in the cards at this point of her career. It would be...really goofy.

Jocasta Nu type...sure.

 

Actors are people... the profession, like many professions, employ people with human frailties. And whilst certain industries can be more exposed to the culture of drugs and alcohol (the TV/film industry certainly has a culture of 'partying') there is certainly no evidence to suggest that the best actors, artists and filmmakers are alcoholics and drug users. Quite the contrary in fact... although everyone has their own drug in one form or other.

 

Darth PJ this goes beyond the culture associated with the profession. The so-called human frailties we are talking about have a neurobiological basis. I will admit that I may have mistakenly intimated that the greatest talent is *always* associated with certain psychological 'disorders'. But you are ignoring the strong evidence that there is an association between talent/creativity and things like bipolar disorder. There are many people whose talent is entwined with their condition. They wouldn't be the talented artist they are without it. Artists often complain that the medications they take to manage their condition interfere with creativity.

I heartily agree with darthmomm that we shouldn't judge anyone based on their mental 'disorders'; we should simply appreciate their talents, no matter how they came by them.

 

I'm one who believed Mark looked the most changed in recent years but 100% believed he would be able to pull it together and get back in fighting shape.

But he underwent just as much change as Carrie, and for awhile there, even more. Yet he never got anywhere near the backlash from diehards, at least to the extent I've encountered, that Carrie did. Mark gained a ton of weight and still I saw very few people on this board suggesting that he should only have a cameo and be relegated to a glorified background player because, you know, he's old and fat.

But ultimately both have put in a ton of work for VII and IMO look great, and ready, with wardrobe and make up, to look like older, but still awesome, versions of these classic characters. I'm exciting to see both of them.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not ignoring anything. There is no clinical evidence to suggest that people with drug and alchohol problems make for 'better' actors, directors etc. Neither is there evidence to suggest that people with mental illness make for 'better' actors, directors etc. The natural conclusion of your hypothesis is that if we were to become drug or alcholoic dependant (or begin to suffer from a mental illness) then we could become as good as Robert De Niro or Kenneth Branagh? Of course that assertion would be silly. It's probably more accurate to state that someone like Richard Burton, for example, was a great actor despite his alcoholism and not because of it... Indeed, it's usually these conditions that inhibit them reaching their potential.

Now I think there's something in the assertion that creative people tend to be more imaginative, experimental, liberal and less inhibited... which perhaps leaves them more open to the use of artificial stimulants, and in turn, at risk to becoming dependant... but again, it doesn't make them 'better' at their proffesion.

 

You don't need to update me on the reality of Carrie Fisher's life. To the degree that she's shared those details I'm aware thanks.

So I ask you to explain to me how this busted, incompetent addict went on to be nominated for two Emmy Awards and do heavily featured roles in When Harry Met Sally, The Burbs, White Lightnin (2009), It's Christmas, Carol (2012), and a multi-year run in a long, one-woman show? And mind you her 2009 role is the most acclaimed pure acting role of her entire career, playing a real character FAR removed from herself and much more challenging than Leia. If she's the barely functioning addict that you suggest, the one who can't do her job, how in the world does she keep getting hired on TV shows and films...as an actor?

 

It's true Carrie probably gets is worst of all. However and unfortunately, outside these boards my experience has been that before he got in shape (and even more annoyingly, since) Mark has been bashed as a has-been actor trying to relive the glory days despite looking like a zombie-fied toad-man (This isn't much of an exaggeration of the typical hate).

Ford is pretty much the only one of the trio who usually evades this ignorant and hateful caricature. Yet since Indy 4 even Ford hasn't escaped the fading of his public image.

Anyway, that's enough "ways people on the internet suck" from me today. I'm looking forward to seeing Leia, Luke and Han again and I hope they shut all the naysayers up!

 

You keep coming back to this 'old and fat' thing... and it seems it's only you who is stating that. I don't have an issue with an older character or a less slim one... my observations are based on what I believe to be the physical manifestations of her substance abuse. I believe it shows on her and is quite obvious. I don't think any less of Fisher as a person... I still like her a lot. And who knows she may be great in TFA. However, and this was my point, drug/alcohol dependency doesn't usually result in better performances. It's usually the contrary.

PS - what planet are you on? Her most noteable cinematic supporting roles were circa 20 years ago.

 

You are twisting my words. I never suggested that drug use promotes superior creativity/talent. But there is no denying that certain psychiatric conditions which are associated with creativity are also associated with a propensity to use drugs. In many cases, people are self-medicating, albeit in an unhealthy fashion. It's not the drug use that helps them in their profession, it's the underlying condition linked to drug use.

 

Are you kidding? There are quite a few interviews with Carrie form the 80s, during the Star Wars years, where she is clearly stoned.

 

I'd like to remind you that part of this debate started with the following contribution, from you:

Carrie looked like an old woman in QI last night. I suppose we're going to have to hope for the magic of cinema. I really don't think she'll be doing that much in TFA. Sat behind a desk looking regal I guess.

Nothing in there about concerns about her "substance abuse", her "drug/alcohol dependency", how much you "like her a lot". Just a random drive by about how old she looked, how all we have to hope for is the "magic of cinema", and further pontifications about her not "doing that much". Please don't play the misunderstood victim card her Darth PJ. You're a great power, but your intentions were obvious and clear before all this backpedaling.

 

I sure wish details about what her character is up to would drop. Then we could all talk about something fun and interesting. You know. . . . Leia.

 

Who said anything about "notable"?

I ask you again, if Carrie is an inept as you say, how is she still getting through shoots on films and TV shows? Why is she still being hired as an actor? How is she still getting acclaim for her ACTING roles on these films and TV shows?

Please explain.

 

From the films you can't tell. So hopefully she can pull it off for the ST too. I'd love to see those old interviews though if you have a link.

 

I think I've more than qualified that comment. She is older than her years IMHO as a result of her problems.

 

When did I state she was 'inept'? She's a functioning addict and it shows. Does that exclude her from getting bit parts and support roles? Nope... But what was her last big role in a film? Where is this 'acclaim' for her film and TV roles exactly? I remember White Lightnin' and from memory it was an average low budget movie where she played a 'quirky' middle aged woman. I don't remember he being nominated for any awards because of it... although I stand to be corrected.

 

I have never been concerned about the performances of Mark, Carrie or Harrison and I know they will give their best. I'm only a little worried about some directions they may go regarding rumours, but this has nothing to do with the actors who I really look so much forward to see together onscreen again.

Regarding Carries past little dark side issues, maybe Leia's character may change a little bit after 30 years of war as well. We always talk about rumours of a so much changed Luke, maybe we will see a completely different Leia as well. And in the end hopefully everything ties together and she may better fit to the character than we can imagine.

 

I never said she was nominated for any awards for that film. But she got some of the best, if not the best, reviews for her acting in her entire career:

Yet the use of Hasil Adkins’ frantic rockabilly is as inspired as the casting of Carrie Fisher, who excels as the wife who abandons her family to party with the laudably unhinged Hogg.
http://www.empireonline.com/reviews/reviewcomplete.asp?FID=136544

Haunted by the murder of D.Ray he tours the South doing his fancy stepping, and then he meets the love of his life. She's played by Carrie Fisher, and she's, well, brilliant. From cooking her man his "sloppy slimy eggs" to a heart-breaking performance of Honky-Tonk Angels, it's hard to find where she could get more into the role. She disappears into it, almost unrecognisable.
http://www.eyeforfilm.co.uk/review/white-lightnin-film-review-by-andrew-robertson/

Carrie Fisher is also good in an unadorned role as Jesco's love interest and another possible route to salvation.
http://letterboxd.com/weaklemondrink/film/white-lightnin/

They are a bunch of unknowns, except for the clever casting of Carrie Fisher in her best role in decades.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20100226/ENT02/2260325#ixzz3NKX9IaDv


British actor Edward Hogg throws himself
bravely and unreservedly into the insanity of his character. The
inexplicable but inspired casting of Carrie Fisher as "Cilla", the
object of the gas huffing, tap dancing, demon-plagued main character's
affection, might attract some Hollywood attention"
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/culture/2009/01/23/sundance-wrapup

There are few more reviews online if you're interested in searching them out.

She also got strong reviews for her one woman show and was nominated for an Emmy Award, for acting, for her work on 30 Rock.

So it's quite odd that you somehow think her past substance abuse issues would limit her work on a Star Wars film, but not in any of the other many acting roles she's undertaken.

 

When was Mark's last big role in a film? Just because Carrie hasn't pursued the same kind of career that Harrison or Mark did doesn't mean she doesn't have the acting chops to hold her own. And awards are overrated. Peter O'Toole was nominated for what, seven Oscars and never won once. I doubt this makes him a hack even though he was a functioning alcoholic for a good chunk of his life.

If you're not a big fan of Carrie, fine, to each their own. But it seems there are people around here who are trying to knock the ground out from under her feet for other reason then to beat a dead horse.