Lit A/V Clone Wars Continuity Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

It jives with the History of the Mandalorians article - no Mandalore between Jango and Spar.

Probably doesn't jive with Traviss-canon.

 

You confused me with your first part! split government?

But thx for reminding me of the Ithullian Genocide! good point. I assume that was part of a proto-Death Watch then before Vizla? Vizlas ancestors?


well some fanon speculation on my part about Mandos, mostly clone wars era stuff:

Spar - a rogue Clone of the GAR who fled to live in peace. Yet war caught up and his chosen Mandalorian heritage becomes a battlefield as he rises to unite them and reawaken ancient traditions.
Mandalore Spar unites...
-Mandalorian Police Forces
-Mandalorian Journeyman Protectors
-Mandalorian Mercs and Farmers
-Mandalorian Outlaws (forgiven their crimes by the Duchess if they help protect Mandalore)
-Ex-Death Watch members of the former Death Watch, not current one
-True Mandalorian remnants of Mereels and Jangos group
...into the Mandalorian Protectors

Fenn Shysa - Mandalorian Police Force and secret True Mando sympathisant
Tobi Dala - Mandalorian Police Force and True Mando sympathisant

Duchess Satine Kryz - Ruler of Mandalore, Kalevala and the Mandalore Sector. After not wanting Republican and Jedi interference she faces a civil war. MandalMotors arms her people and Police Forces and Journeyman Protectors are called back home to train more in the Arts of War. Armor will be worn again in public. Beskar will be mined and shaped. They are pacifists, yet they will defend themselves to the last man, woman or child.

Many true Mandalorian sympatisants and former members, the few that survived return home to help defend their culture. Yet the Duchess is not a warrior at heart. She is a good leader of the people, but Mandalore now needs a leader through war, it needs a Lord Mandalore like in the old times. Meanwhile a rogue Clone who had found his home on Mandalore fights side by side with the police forces, former true mandos and ex-DeathWatch men that survived old Vizla and now do not want a new Vizla. Spar was bread for war, he is a natural and saves many lifes, earns their respect and rises through the ranks of the defenders. When a cataclysm claims the life of Duchess Satine or when she sees reason and gives in... Spar is declared MANDALORE and leads his people into the war. He manages to drive Death Watch out of the sector with his 212 Mandalorian Protectors and then resigns his title (be it because he achieved his goal and Satine took rule back or that he did no longer want to lead and returned to a lower lifestyle while Shysa and others remained as clanleaders. true mandalorian culture

 

Scolai: I don't know where you are getting the idea of a civil war being caused by the Dutchess action.
Visla wanted to do that, but Dooku made it very clear that he could, at best, "hold it for a day".
Similarly, the episode guide commented that the Death Watch could easily conquer Mandalore, but they wouldn't be able to hold on to their victory.
Presumably because a Republic task force would swoop in and save the day, which could lead to Mandalorian people rearming on the Republic's side, which would be bad for the CIS.

Judging by Dooku's comment, I think he is going to refocus Death Watch's energy elsewhere, and work on other ways of undermining Satine and bringing Mandalore into the CIS. Presumably, one of these ways eventually succeeds, leading to Fenn and Spar's involvement.

Well, that, or they are members of Death Watch, which they prefer to call the "Protectors" later on in life because of Death Watch's reputation. In which case by "Mandalore's government", he meant the Concordian government which he felt was more legitimate.

 

I...don't quite follow you. The Death Watch is dedicated to overthrowing Satine's government, and has the backing of the Separatists. The Mandalorian government official guy spoke of getting ready for them. Satine kept the Republic out of Mandalore's affairs, but she's still got Death Watch on her hands, and they're bigger, better organized, and better equipped than she imagined. Dooku said that without the Separatists, Death Watch could only hold the planet for a day. While he might use them elsewhere, they still have one goal in mind.

So...Satine kept to her principles, and kept Mandalore officially neutral and without Republic support, but now she's got a whole army of Separatist backed Death Watch followers at her doorstep. There's going to be blood.

And again, she gets to go home and deal with having to get her people ready for when the Death Watch strike. She didn't want to go to war, but all she managed to do was keep her planet officially out of the Clone Wars. The conflict is still there, and growing.

 

well, thanks to Satine's "efforts", in the Senate, it looks like civil war will erupt anyway.

The New Mandalorians are on their own, against the better trained militant force Death Watch. With no help coming from the Republic, this fight is between the Kalevala Government and the people of Mandalore.

While the Kalevalans are prepared to fight the Death Watch, I highly doubt that any sort of Defense Force they can muster will be able to withstand a battle hardened Death Watch army.

And what I find most ironic is that, if the Kalevalans move against the Death Watch on Concordia and Mandalore, they will be doing the very thing that Satine sought to avoid the Republic causing. Satine knew that Republic intervention would cause an uprising, but now here government is imposing troops on Mandalore, achieving the same purpose.

Except now, since it is a personal matter, the Kalevalan Government has no backing from the GAR. And they are going up against a bunch of kill crazy Mandalorians.

Good luck with that.

 

1. The idea that the Death Watch are going to fight anyway is patently against the show, where they clearly ordered to stand down.
At the camp, the loud speakers were ordering all forces to "stand down"

2. The idea that Dooku's forces will make the difference seems to me...well, Dooku was the one ordering everyone to stand down, and when Visla wanted to attack anyway, Dooku told him not.
If he could just bring his big fleet in and take over whenever he wanted, he would have done so. He wouldn't need to wait for a Republic invasion, and he certainty wouldn't have told Visla not to attack.

3. The show made it quite clear Death Watch could easily take the system, but couldn't hold it. Maybe they haven't explained why very well, but there you have it.

4. Regardless of how pacifistic Satine, her people would not like being attacked, and I bet many of them fight whoever attacked them.
More importantly, whoever attacks Mandalore first will be the bad guy. If the CIS and Death Watch attacked without a Republic garrison showing up, and then the Republic showed up, the Republic would be the heroes and get all the Mandolorian support that Dooku wanted.
Attacking at this point would be counter-productive towards Dooku's goals.

5. Satine did call of the Republic, but on two grounds
a) It is an internal affair.
b) They could handle it.
If The CIS and Death Watch attacked, both of those things would not be true, and the Republic would get involved.

 

Interesting.

And Sinre, really nice post.

 

i think you might be underestimating Satine and the Kavelans. we know they have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER fighting Droids, as seen by the Ducal Gurads and Satine herself. that would have made a droid Occupation of Mandalore.....difficult without deathwatch's aide.

add to the Fact that the New Mandalorians have only embraced true pacifism since Satine's ascension and they did fight Death Watch and the True Mandos in the Civil War, hence why Obi-wan and Satine went on the run, so Almec and the Others who are older do probably know how to fight. add to the fact that Satine might be stuborn and Naive, but her loyalty to her people may ultimatly prove greater than her loyalty to her ideals.

or, before Palpatine has Izard quitely assassinate Her, perhaps Satine designates Spar as Her Sucessor as Leader of the New Mandalorian Systems, leading to Mandalore joining the Confederacy?

that, or Spar's secretly Satine and Obi-wan's lovechild

 

There's no separate "Kalevalan government". Satine is the leader of Mandalore.

EDIT: And everyone, Spar is not the leader of Mandalore. That's not what the title Mandalore means in this era. He is leader of the 212 Mandalorian Protectors. They, in turn, are recruited for jobs by the government of Mandalore. They're two separate institutions.

 

that, or Spar's secretly Satine and Obi-wan's lovechild
hmmmm.....not spar, but....
[image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/9/95/Fenn6.JPG/494px-Fenn6.JPG]
[image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/26/Obi-Wan_Satine_VoT.jpg]
I think I can see some of each one's features in Fenn....

 

So glad comics have changed... that green was way overused back in the day.

 

We'll see if they show up again - but the EA already has the Kalemandos "go away" by the end of the Clone Wars.

 

my bad, fenn is probably Satine and Obi's secret (as in secret from him as well) love child.

and the Atlas WAS going to be retconned eventually and the re-militarisation of mandalore and the rise of Spar/Shysa and the fall of satine would make a nice subplot for the live action series

 

Considering most of the Mando material from the RC series is well after the setting for CWAS, I really don't see what the issue is. Whatever the live-action series might bring, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Although it's interesting to note that the trilogy does directly contradict the status of Death Watch from Abel's article...

The Atlas material was specifically based off of information about the "Kalemando trilogy".

 

yes, but i imagine the triumph of the Mandalore over the Duchess and the Overlord will be a bit more complicated than the way it sounds

 

I hear ya, cuz 'ol Sx3 would totally be lost without these boards. Like how some figure out which CW episode, goes where... I'd never make it.

 

New webcomic is up. Looks like Jeff Carlisle art, very nice.

So... this is some sort of superweapon that makes organics go insane? But not Jedi, because the Force, or something?

 

That's what I'm assuming; force-sensitivity seems to make you immune. Range on this new device can't be that long either; the clones in space don't seem to be affected. I'm guessing it's some sort of weird signal, like (much as I hate to make this analogy) that broadcast in that Stephen King book Cell.

 

Why they didn't just "make them in order" is WAY beyond me....

 

Yeah, it is an unusual way to do a television show--they did the same thing with Young Indiana Jones Chronicles too...

TC

 

Without the list (I think Havac made it) I would be totally lost.
The order is totally jacked. I have them tivo'd and I'm still clueless.

 

I'm good until the have an episode that has nothing to do with the overall story arc of that season. Like in Season 1 when they had the random episode when they were on Christophsis, I kept wondering "is this before the movie?" and "were they forced to go back?"