Lit Cult Encounters and Supernatural Encounters (even more new Legends material!)

My theory about Rey based on how important they made jakku to the emperor and his plans in nu canon was that she was a secret clone of Sheev that turned out to be female for some reason Ala x-23 or ultimate Jessica drew . I did think there was a chance she could be a Skywalker or solo but being a Palpatine clone rhythm with Ben trying to be a Vader Cosplayer to me. anyway know that you explained yourself and I thought it over that could work if they teased it like u said. Thou you still lose me with Sate Pestage being related to sheev either son, father or grandfather as I thought plagueis novel established his murder of his family.

 

I had two theories about Rey. First, she was a padawan learner from Luke's temple that Kylo spared and left on Jakku. Second, she is somehow related to Palpatine's program of kidnapping children, and her force abilities are somehow related to experiments conducting in the labs on Jakku. Or maybe like Ezra was born to protect Lothal she was born to protect Jakku.
The reason I suggested a father-son connection between Pestage and Palps, is three folds. First, Lucas co-wrote a script that revealed that Palpatine's fall to the dark side was in part fueled by him being the victim in an abusive relationship with an older female gangster. We know about the script because it supposedly inspired the writer of one of the God of Wars. Secondly, we know that Pestage had a close working relationship with Cronal, and that he even took up the mantle of Blackhole after the original was severely wounded at Mindor. Thirdly, I wanted to pull a Grant Morrison, and reveal that the rumours in the Dark Empire Source Book were true but with a twist. Pestage is a clone of the unborn child of Palpatine and the female gangster. Pestage and Palpatine are the same age because Pestage's aging process was artificially accelerated. I don't think Palpatine know who Pestage really is, but he subconsciously trusts him more than any of his other advisor, which is exactly what Cronal wants. To be clear I don't think Cronal is the true puppet master behind palpatine, but I do think he took extremes measures to keep an eye on him and his actions. Once again it's a crazy idea that should only be hinted and never fully confirmed. That said the idea that Cronal is able to salvage an unborn baby for his dark purposes is a good way to foreshadow him rescuing Lumiya and Luke's daughter. The idea of Lumiya's daughter is a way to on one hand pay homage to the work of Darth Depressis's photonovels, and the other creates a character who can live up to the build-up Abel G Pena was giving Lumiya before Denning discarded her too soon.

@Sinrebirth I wanted to know what you thought about the idea of Jacen Solo's spirit being bonded with Wutzek's avenging spirit, just like Hal Jordan's spirit was bonded with the Spectre after the parallax sage.

 

Pestage being Blackhole is just an in-universe rumor based on the fact that Cronal died on Mindor. However, based on the fact that Cronal did in fact somehow survive after Mindor, I think it’s safe to say that the Dark Empire era Blackhole was indeed Cronal.


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Yes and no. The despoilers of the galactic empire make it sound like Cronal was out of commission for a while (around the same time Black Hole contacted Mara Jade and Jerek) and it also confirms that at the very least that State Pestage was a co-conspirator of Cronal. Three possibilities are laid out for Cronal. Either he was resurrected by State, or he crossed over into other space, or he was resurrected by the night sisters and turned into Perek. Personally, I think all three are true. He crossed over otherspace first. This probably alarmed Abeloth, so she contacted the nightsisters to summon his soul into the body of Perek. The operation partially succeeded. A portion of Cronal's soul was trapped and forced to abandon his nihilist philosophy. However, the other part of his soul graphed itself unto Pestage, or Ars Dangor who mysteriously disappears right before Palpatine's return. Sorry I am fuzzy on the details. Anyway, I would assume that Cronal's experience as Perek may change his long term plan. Instead of destroying the universe he may be content with getting rid of force sensitivity and replacing it with mutants and cyborg.

 

Cronal came up a lot in those blog articles, and they all generally lent the impression that he had massive influence WELL beyond his official rank, which was already quite high; among other things, it's stated that he was and always had been the true Director of Imperial Intelligence, with the Isards being his pawns, and that he ran the fake Prophets of the Dark Side op as well. I generally get the impression that he was who Palpatine turned to when he needed business done that was so dirty even most Imp commanders couldn't stomach it.

 

speaking of Ars Dangor, am i the only one wondering if his look was inspired by the Master from MANOS, THE HANDS OF FATE?

 

If I am not mistaken he is also said to be the head of the imperial security bureau is the star wars galaxies trading card game.

I wanted to explain why I drew a connection between Cronal, Xendor, Ruin. Dark Underlord and Skere Kaan.
Abel G Pena created the Dark Underlord to compensate for the fact that he initially was not allowed to combine Blackhole and lord Shadowspawn. As result, the story of Dark Underlord parallels the story of Shadowspawn being defeated by Jedi-allied with Mandalorians.
Abel also connected the Dark Underlord to Xendor.
As some of you pointed out Xendor, comes off as being a failed chosen one, because he believes in a literal balance in the force and because he was summoned to Mortis.
Another failed chosen one figure is Skere Kaan. The leader of the dark brotherhood unintentionally led the sith to their destruction on Ruusan and by reforming their ideology. He also shared a literal vision of balance in the force. It is also to point out that Cronal seems to have an interest in the valley of the Jedi
The connection between Cronal and Darth Ruin is more subtle. Abel G Pena once explained that he saw Ruin as being the star wars equivalent of Ayn Rand. Matt Stover seemed to have named the sorcerers of Rhand after the Ayn Rand.
Ruin pops up in an interesting moment in the timeline. He becomes active around the same time that the Mortis trinity locked themselves up in the monolith. The Father mentioning that sith have tried to take advantage of them originally made me consider the possibility that the Son was captured by the new Sith and turned into the Dark Underlord. However, I now think that Ruin was summoned by the Mortis trinity, and he blindsided them releasing the trapped spirit of Xendor.
I also get the feeling that the son manipulated two Revan fanboys (Darth Rivan and Darth Bane) to neutralize the Dark Underlord and Skere Kaan just like he used Revan to neutralize Vitiate.
I used to think that Abeloth and Cronal would be allies. Now, I think that Abeloth is not a purely destructive force. She is similar to the goddess Tiamat, as she is a monstrous embodiment of the primordial chaos of creation and of regeneration.
I see Cronal as potentially being her offspring in a failed attempt to birth the chosen one. Much like Ultron decided to bring peace on earth by killing organic life force, Cronal may have decided to bring balance to the force by wiping out all life force or cutting people off from the force.

 

The dog has white eyes. Cronal confirmed

 

tHe mMmaster wiLL bE disPLeaSed....

 

Cronal being... Cronal, it's probably pretty fortuitous that his Old One research seemingly didn't amount to much.

 

I don't know, I like to think he'd probably end up like an Indiana Jones villain if he found anything.

 

you mean like this?

 

While I can't say I'm a fan of most of cherif's Cronal fanon, I'm even less of a fan of that one official article which made Sariss from Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight (the female boss you cut down as Kyle Katarn) his daughter, and then declared that he and the other true Prophets of the Dark Side regularly gangraped her for years. Which makes her story in Jedi Knight even more uncomfortable since it was her seducing and marrying a rich dude in order to get secret funds for Jerec, then seducing her stepson Yun and getting him to murder his dad. Basically it means the character's entire theme is screwed up incestuous ****.

Abel G Peña, I like you man, but pedophilic incest gangrape isn't really a theme I enjoy in my Star Wars.

I'm 99% sure this was never stated, and is just one of many fan theories that have come up to explain the timeline issues surrounding who's in charge of Intelligence which cropped up once the Marvel comics got fully reintegrated into EU canon instead of being left ambiguous.

 

Boo Wendy Boo (with Eric Cartman's voice)

Are you sure about that? Here's the direct quote from Warlords Despoilers of the galactic empire:
His chance came when the Director of Imperial Intelligence was executed by his own protégé and daughter Ysanne Isard. Palpatine subsequently installed Cronal as the interim director, giving him the infamous codename “Blackhole.” With the Empire’s immense intelligence network under his control, all the galaxy’s knowledge was at the mage’s emaciated fingertips, now free to travel in his own stygian-triprismatic camouflaged Star Destroyer Singularitysearching for Force artifacts, guided by his Darksight. Even once Isard officially took over Imperial Intelligence, Cronal never relinquished his newly acquired mandate or surveillance powers, assuming an equivalent role overseeing the Imperial Security Bureau as part of the Emperor’s shadow government: a dark side theocracy named the Dark Empire intended to inevitably supplant the First Galactic Empire. Maintaining his anonymity, Cronal utilized the HoloNet to project his menacing identity of “Blackhole” — a wraith-like holographic phantom—across the cosmos, terrorizing civilians and Imperial officers alike.

Same

 

I wasn't sure, but now that you posted that excerpt I'm even more sure. In fact the excerpt means I'd say it no longer even counts as a plausible fan theory but is just plain wrong.

Look at the parts I bolded. The language used makes it very clear that before Armand's death, Cronal didn't have anywhere near the influence and power he would later gain. So "he was and always had been the true Director of Imperial Intelligence, with the Isards being his pawns," is untrue. Ysanne is slightly more debatable, though I'd argue that the language of the text makes it pretty clear that he wasn't her boss or in charge of ImpInt, but instead shifted to a similar position in the ISB in order to justify keeping his new level of authority.

Interesting that it happened, must have been quite the shake-up and controversial event given the rivalry between the two agencies. I very much doubt the COMPNORite ISB people were overjoyed to have some outsider from ImpInt put in charge of them instead of one of their own. By the same token, I doubt the Ubiqtorate were happy about someone so intimately familiar with their workings being in the ISB. But nobody can make too much fuss because he's one of the Emperor's own pet sorcerers (those guys just keep getting appointed to high positions all over the place, it's almost like our dear Emperor thinks they're better than normal people!)

 

Apologies, I skimmed over Hamburger time's quote so I thought you were only asking about Ysanne and not her father. Here is the problem, another blog article published around the same time as Warlords, called the Star wars spy game SPIN, contradicts Warlord by saying that Cronal was head of imperial intelligence for many years. No offence but interim directors of intelligence agencies do not stay for more than a year. Not to mention the fact that the books themselves, explain that Ysard almost immediately succeeded her father. I just reread emperors pawn and Abel Pena's endnotes, and it does confirm that Pablo Hidalgo's intentions were to confirm the fan theory that Cronal was a secret high ranking intelligence officer and overseer working as Palpatine direct link to imperial intelligence.
You are right though, the period after Armand Isard's death, which was tied to the death star's explosion, was a boon for Cronal, Not only did he officially briefly assume direct control over Imperial Intelligence, but he also became the head of the imperial security bureau (replacing Yularen).
Considering that almost nobody noticed his presence at imperial intelligence, I am guessing nobody noticed when he became head of the ISB.

 

Just to repeat what I posted above, Cronal/Blackhole AND the Isards AND The Ubiqtorate ALL "headed" Imperial Intelligence- at the same time! Cronal/Blackhole was one of the mostly hidden Dark Siders that were part of the parallel shadow government that Palpatine eventually planned to have replace the normal Imperial administration, per Dark Empire SB and the Dark Side Sourcebook. Others were the hierarchs on the Ruling Council and the Procurator of Justice. The Isards were the formal Directors of the service (Imperial Intelligence is an official branch of the Imperial Military, per the Death Star Technical Companion), while the Ubiqtorate was the overall strategic steering group for the entire organization that originated BEFORE the Empire and lasted well into the days of the Remnant. So, to say that any one was the "head" of Intelligence is correct (depending on when), but it is most correct to note that in the years around Yavin all 3 were the leaders of Intelligence.

 

Yularen was never head of ISB. In Legends he was the head of ISB on the Death Star.

Every time I see there's a post in this thread I get excited and think Bongiorno has posted the Supernatural Encounters updates. Can't we move this discussion to the headcanon thread?

 

Yularen was never the head (Central Commander) of the ISB, nor even really all that high-up in the organization. We know of the Central Committee, Central Commander Sollaine, and also at least one ISB General (Nasda, from the other ISB- the Imperial Sourcebook). The newer, post-2014 stuff may have him as such, but it isn't so at all in the EU.

 

As one of the other Imperial Dignitary fans, I'd like to lend a hand:

A resounding no!- to the question about whether the final WEG image of Dangor was based off of that source. And to note, I say final because there were several over the years. The first, found only in the first edition of Galaxy Guide 5 from 1989 (which has several other cool unique images), has two (at the time) unidentified Imperial Advisors:

...right above a character template that has the generic name of Kren Blista-Vanee, who is only listed as being 1.6 meters tall, and obviously not the taller Dignitary pictured above. The image of the shorter Dignitary was later reused in 1991, as part of the Command Chart in the Death Star Technical Companion, but without explicitly identifying it as being of the Ars Dangor character, who is described in terms that do not correspond to the image:

The description goes on to describe him exactly as Sate Pestage would later be described in the 1993 Dark Empire Sourcebook, but prior to that Sate Pestage had not been noted as being as powerful as the Ars Dangor character. With that in mind, it is likely that the following image from the 1992 Heir to the Empire Sourcebook (and only found there, for it isn't in the Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebook) may well depict Dangor, given that it matches the art used in the earlier images that may have been intended to depict Dangor, as it was before the DESB gave prominence to Sate Pestage and Dangor was the only character who could plausibly be the person with Vader and the Emperor:


Now, also note that the colored image from years later found the Movie Trilogy Sourcebook, while stated to be of Dangor, also does not match the original description (particularly in terms of dress) of Dangor from the DSTC. So in essence, there have been multiple images over the years intended to have been Dangor.

 

Beat me to it!

And yeah, this thread is getting derailed. My apologies for my part of it, though I did have to address a few inaccuracies posted above. I too have been opening it up only to be disappointed that no new updates to Joe's masterpieces have actually been released.

Yeah, we should keep this more related to actual content of the stories and the pending updates and enhancements. My apologies for my own off-topic posts. I'll stick to directly relevant posts.