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Lit Darth Caedus & Kylo Ren - A thematic comparison

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Charlemagne19, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    It's an internal monologue Caedus has after he realizes the Jedi successfully pinned a tracking device on his cape.

    It's a quote used to either say Jacen, was insane, LOTF was inane, or Allston had had enough and was simply protesting the denning-Traviss fight by putting something ridiculous and over the top like this as a criticism thereof.
     
  2. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Well, didn’t it come up on the Tassels in Betrayal? He will crawl through his cloak?
     
  3. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Yeah but the tassels stuff was never really expanded upon or integrated into the story-it was a dropped element basically.
     
  4. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    He trips over his cape near the end of some novel (Fury?), and has some paranoid self-righteous inner monologue about how everyone has betrayed him, even his cape.
     
  5. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I thought it had something to do with Seha Dorvald putting a tracking device on his cloak.
     
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  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Yup:

    Caedus took the hem and stared at it. He tugged at the corner of the patch. Reluctantly, it yielded, coming up from the cloak material, revealing glue and flexible circuitry underneath.
    Though his good mood was spoiled, he kept the fact from his face. "We all make mistakes, Lieutenant, and it appears that one of mine was to let someone plant a tracking beacon on me." He undid his cloak clasps, folded the garment, and handed it to her along with the black patch. "Get the to our security technicians. I want to know its range and abilities. Soonest."

    ...

    Caedus walked onto the bridge.
    His cloak should have been swirling around him. It wasn't. Why? Oh, yes. He'd given it away. It had betrayed him.
     
  7. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I think it would be very likely that Caedus would smash Kylo into the ground if they crossed paths.

    His initial guiding star was to emulate his grandfather, who Jacen sought to avoid becoming. Ben had not learned the lessons of Darth Vader, not until he seemingly decided to break with the past.

    From then, Caedus might respect Kylo, as he is seeking to break the cycle at least.


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  8. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    Kylo Ren I hope returns to emulating Vader. He just stopped trying to respect Snoke.
     
  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    If he does he should have a Sith name.

    But he shouldn’t.


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  10. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014

    Reminds me of Matt Radar Technician scene in the cafeteria, which despite being a comedy skit really is how the character is in the films thus far,lol:




    I don't care for either one of these characters of Jacen/Darth Caedus or Ben/Kylo Renbut I will say Jacen/Caudus had much better character development and I remember him being a better fighter than Kylo . And being a veteran of the Yuuzhan Vong war and become neo-Sith by being trained by experienced masters that also had character development.
     
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  11. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Impossible! The Sith have been extinct for decades.
     
  12. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Kylo said he's going to let the past go, so I doubt he'll go back to mimicking Vader. The irony is he's doing the exact same thing Palpatine is doing, galactic domination, without considering how badly that went for Palpatine himself. Kylo says he's dropping the past but he's not, he's just doing what's been done before.

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  13. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    :p


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  14. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    The sith operate in a cyclical fashion in that they try to achieve what their predecessors could not they jail try to do it different ways.
     
  15. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Kylo: Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Snoke the Wise?
    Broomboy: No.
    Kylo: I thought not. It's not a story Rey would tell you. It's a First Order legend. Snoke was a Supreme Leader so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to create telepathic Force holocalls.
    Broomboy: He could actually... reduce my holonet bill?
    Kylo: The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
    Broomboy: What happened to him?
    Kylo: He became so wealthy saving money on holocalls, the only thing he was afraid of was losing his wealth...which, eventually of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew. Then his apprentice killed him while he was chatting. Ironic. He knew the actions of everyone through his Force holocalls, but not his own student standing in front of him.
    Broomboy: Is it possible to learn this power?
    Kylo: Not from Rey.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  16. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 11, 2014
    Yes "my uncle was a jerk who tried to kill me," explains his hatred of Luke a little bit. I mean it's terrible because it throws Luke's character completely under the bus, but at least there's something there. What it DOESN'T explain is:

    -Killing half of Luke's other students.
    -Killing countless innocent people across the Galaxy for years.
    -Killing LST (a defenseless old man) for the "crime" or, vaguely annoying you.
    -Ordering the massacre of an entire village of defenseless people and never showing a shred of remorse about it.
    -Nearly killing Finn.
    -Killing your father who was just trying to talk to you.
    -Etc.

    Really the "revelation" of Kylo's motives doesn't make him seem more "sympathetic" or "nuanced" imo. It's actually an incredibly shallow and lame motivation that does nothing to explain his subsequent crimes. It makes look like even more of a petty evil jerk than he did before.

    It's an angry petulant sociopath's desperate and pitiful attempt to excuse his monstrous crimes, nothing more.
     
  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Caedus had more reason to kill/arrest Han and Leia given their known ties to the confederation and participation in its activities.

    Because remember Caedus is legally the co chief of state and so when he tries to arrest his parents or fire on them-legally he is carrying out his duty by doing so and justifiably so if one opposes the confederate cause in LOTF.
     
  18. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    mind you, Cadeus doesn't care about either government because he's aiming to bring PEACE AND ORDER.
     
  19. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    He does care about the GA not being torn apart by civil war-as that as the opposite of peace and order.
     
  20. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 26, 2013
    I never got how some Shakespearean inner-monologuing made it into a meme that says Caedus is insane. There's way more examples to help an argument of him being insane, but that line in the book really never struck me as particularly one that stands out.
     
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  21. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I would contest if Caedus is actually insane-inconsistently written sure but never outright insane.

    He certainly is in command of his faculties in Invincible.
     
  22. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    Star Wars is currently really creatively bankrupt. Unfortunately TLJ just never really enhances Kylo as a character, just when you think it was it sets it right back again to TFA level by the end of the TLJ film. Kylo is just another one of Lucas/Filoni/Storygroup's Sithy villains that are basically pop culture schoolyard bullies - ones that never learn and repeat the same mistakes, often their own while the heroes somehow die and come back again.
     
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  23. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I hope he saves the galaxy from the New Republic in the end.
     
  24. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Honestly having Rey join him and then they steamrolling the resistance or something would have redeemed TLJ in my eyes-that would have been "subverting expectations".

    It's somewhat hard to make a thematic comparison between Ren and Jacen as we know so little about Ren and what we do is basic and limited while we have dozens of novels for Jacen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
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  25. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I actually think we know probably everything about Ren.

    It's just people expect something bizarre when he's a straightforward character.

    He converted because he was friends with Snoke and Luke tried to kill him.

    The End.
     
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