ST Darth Plagueis in IX

Knowing how GL works, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he made notes on Plagueis' background, brief but detailed. Then again may be not.

 

Characters don't need to remain expository? Am I missing something? Is there some law against character development?

 

It's a matter of investment. Two trilogies orchestrated by Palpatine vs a five minute story about Plagueis.

 

...right but he's the Master of the ultimate baddie of the past six. It's a logical escalation.

 

And he's had no involvement in the narrative of those first six films. Sure, you could resurrect Plagueis and reestablish him for the trilogy, but I think Palpatine makes more cohesive sense, both narratively and thematically.

 

Palpatine is better than Snoke, but it's too late to make it feel organic now. Snoke WAS the Palpatine of this trilogy until Rian decided he sucked (which he did).

 

Except he lost.



SW is all about winners.

Playing aside though, I'd quite like to see them do more with Plagueis, especially as they wiped out his previous origin tale.

 

Despite the fact that he often played his cards close to the vest, I believe Lucas has always been a master planner. After the OT, he denied he would ever do a PT, but when he was able to finally renegotiate toy rights with Kenner suddenly we had a PT. After the PT, he said there'd never be a ST, despite at least one report on AICN that had insiders at Lucasfilm confirming there would eventually be one. Lucas knew he wanted to sell the franchise some day, and he knew the promise of a ST would be the way to do it. My point is I think he has always known the big picture plan, and I believe there were certain aspects of the PT that were meant as set ups for things he would address in the ST. Midichlorians were clearly one. We know he wanted to explore that in the ST, but Disney didn't want to go there. I suspect the legend of Darth Plagueis was also something he would have revisited had he done the ST. I would like to see at the very least a mention of Darth Plagueis by Palpatine or Kylo or anyone, in order to pay off the set up.

 

Ever since TLJ I've subscribed to the notion that Snoke was the Dooku of the sequel trilogy, a figurehead meant to be taken out by an apprentice (Anakin in ROTS / Kylo in TLJ) before the reveal of the true villain, Palpatine.

 

If he is such a great big picture guy, it certainly explains the mess of linking up the PT to the OT - his own work! Lucas is great at ideas, but he needs others to really make them fly - on the PT he didn't have that and it showed.

 

He did it "on his own" (he had help with all three PT scripts) in the OT too if Kasdan's TFA or Solo scripts are any indication.

 

You're welcome to your opinion. If you think TLJ is even close to as good as any of the PT films, we really see it differently. In any event, what were your problems with the linking of the PT to the OT? Other than Leia rembering her mother even though she was an infant when Padme died was definitely a flaw, IMO. But I'm not aware of all the other problems you are alluding to...? The overall quality of the PT really has nothing to do with whether he's a big picture guy, IMO.

 

I love Plagueis and desperately want to see him on the big screen. But I also love Palpy, so I'm okay with JJ just doing Palpy. However, having both of them on screen would be a dream. That's why I loved the rumor from that guy everyone ran off. I am secretly hoping he ends up being like the guy who spoiled TFA that no one believed. Just because having both Plagueis and Palpy as major villains would be sooo awesome!

If I was writing the story I'd make Snoke be Plagueis, and have it be that he set up Kylo to kill him because his body was falling apart and he needed a new one. Then I'd have Matt Smith be Plagueis's new body and have the knights of Ren be his secret worshipers who turn against Kylo and kick him out of the first order club. Plagueis would then come in and take the throne, and a sulking Kylo would follow the voices from his darth vader helmet to the death star 2 where he would find Palpy. Palpy would take over Kylo's body for a little bit, and that's who Rey would fight, Palpy-lo, but then somehow the memories of R2D2 would be used to bring back Ben Solo who would fight off Palpy and end him once and for all, with Rey's help. And then I'd have a 4th movie where Ben and Rey have to fight against Plagueis to end the First Order.

 

It’s anti-climatic, i.e. do you really have any doubt that he can be defeated? Is this not going to be yet another repeat? His return not only unnecessarily unravels the denouement in ROTJ, but we’ve already seen Palpatine upended. Defeated. There is no reasonable suspension of disbelief. We know this villain is vulnerable and will in the end be defeated. It’s been done. Our protagonists are only as heroic as a result of the villain’s seemingly insurmountable threat they must overcome. Palpatine’s great but he should suffer the consequences of defeat not become more powerful as a result.

 

I'd be fine with Palpatine having been resurrected, and he gives a shout out to Plagueis in his explanation of how he did it. Plagueis doesn't need to show up.

 

Perhaps defeating Palpatine again is a foregone conclusion, but I think it's pretty clear that it can't merely be achieved in a physical sense. The mechanics will be tricky no doubt, but I don't think it will be as simple as physically killing him or destroying some MacGuffin. Eliminating Palpatine permanently may mean going to some truly metaphysical, cosmic lengths. And while bringing him back might minimize the galactic outcome of ROTJ, I still think the true personal catharsis of that film is of a father and son mutually saving each other.

 

Listen, why should Palpatine gain from his defeat? Think about it. He built a Death Star. Luke destroyed it. What does Palpatine do? Builds another Death Star. Personally decides to set up shop and oversee its construction. What happened? He claimed that with regard to Luke and Anakin everything was proceeding as he had foreseen. Luke describes this as overconfident. Palpatine claimed Luke lacked vision and would pay with his life. Now all that and Palpatine returns more powerful than we can possibly imagine? He’s been defeated over and over. He’s a dead horse. Let’s do it again.

If so, Anakin must return as Chosen One to thrust him down the Netherworld shaft, AGAIN. To Hell with him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Oh, this is hilarious. You think I like TLJ? That's funny.

Oh and I now hate the PT too? Even funnier.

 

I'm predicting that the return of Plapy (in spirit or hologram form) is to give the heroes the answer to defeating whoever/whatever was controlling Snoke and the rest of the (well funded) First Order. I'm predicting the final battle will be fought both in the physical realm (with lightsabres) and in the netherworld of the Force (Force ghost vs whoever/whatever is trying to control the Force completely). Said it years ago.

And only 2 characters fit into the whoever/whatever of my predictions. One of them is a brand new character, the other is not.

 

If I was to do a trilogy script re-write, the Snoke throne room scene would have happened in the final act of the final episode, and the final battles would have been a back and forth montage of Rey/Kylo versus Snoke's guards, and force ghosts Luke (who would have died in a more heroic fashion somewhere along the way) and Anakin versus the spirit of Plagueis in the Netherworld, with Anakin delivering the death blow.

Kylo dies (deserves to ultimately but his final act redeems him, similar to his grandfather, who he has now helped "finish what he had started" )

And with that final blow from Anakin to Plagueis, and with the now "gray" Rey the only one living survivor remaining, true balance is finally achieved, and the Anakin Chosen One prophecy is finally truly fulfilled. We learn it wasn't fulfilled the first time, because the force was not balanced with Luke being the sole survivor as a pure light side user.

Final scene: Galaxy-wide celebration, a shot of Rey, with the force ghosts Luke, Anakin (Hayden), Obi-Wan (Ewan), Yoda, and a redeemed Ben Solo behind her smiling as she and the final victory versus evil is celebrated by a large crowd in front of her.

/end of Saga

 

And that’s why nobody will ever pay you to do a trilogy re-write.

 

WTF are you talking about?

 

What else am I to conclude from your post?

Me? Think TLJ = good? Yeah, that is funny.

As to the PT, I'll give you a more serious answer. I like a lot of it but, for me, it falls down on those little but important details, the kind of details that tells the audience that you've remembered this is supposed to be a prequel and you remember what you wrote later. They are a minor, minor piece of the whole but can eclipse it in perception. For instance bringing in Qui-Gon as ObiWan's teacher works well as a twist, but Lucas had to do a fix in AOTC with Yoda training younglings in order to sync it to what Luke is told on Hoth by ObiWan. And then there is the Leia example. It doesn't destroy the PT, it doesn't break it, but it does lessen it. With that little bit more polish it would have been far, far better.

(But that's Lucas, great in some areas, not so in others, like recognising when he had perfection with the finale of the DS2 scenes in Jedi. He thought it needed a new 'nooooo'. It didn't, but that's stuck on the OT Blu-Rays.)

It's remarkable what people notice. Where Rogue One is concerned, it was a surprise to LFL that so many people responded to the inclusion of Mothma in the trailers and later, in the film proper, lots of what we would consider casual fans noticed the inclusion of the squadron leaders from ANH.

 

Psh, TLJ's better than "good". En guarde, good sir.

 

I think most people forget that this line:

"He could save others from death... but not himself"