ST Darth Plagueis in IX

Palpatine in now omniscient?

I think people forget this line:

“Your overconfidence is your weakness.”


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You don't have to be omniscient to know whether someone is head or not. Sidious would've known if Plagueis was dead or alive or even if he actually killed him or not,lol.

Its not even like the laugh we heard in the TROS teaser trailer is supposed to be Plagueis(or Snoke).

 

Nobody said it was LOL. Palpatine also said “To cheat death is a power only ONE has acheived...”

Point is Palpatine is not a reliable source.


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Easy way to explain that away is that Palpatine didn't know he already knew how to cheat death. In fact, they can even take it a step further and say Palpatine played right into Plagueis' hands when killing him. I.E. That was part of achieving the power of cheating death.

Similar to how it seemed like Palpatine wanted Luke to kill him and arguably why it seemed like it's possible that maybe Snoke wanted Kylo to kill him.

 

There is nothing to take further.

Maul came back and refused to die directly before the events of ROTS. Palpatine could've simply been making it all up to tempt and lure in Anakin since Anakin wanted to save Padme. The same thing existed before with his failure to save his mom and stop her from dying. It was everything Anakin wanted to hear, and Palpatine only brought up the tragedy of Darth Plagueis after Anakin rejected his prior attempt to snare him as he remained committed to the Jedi Order. The "power to cheat" comment was an ambiguous statement and admittance that he did not know everything from Plagueis before he killed him. Anakin was hoodwinked.

In fact Palpatine is heard talking to Anakin in his mind 0

Palpatine V.O.

You do know, don't you, if the Jedi destroy me, any chance of saving her will be lost.

Plagueis was long dead for years prior to when he talked to Anakin at the opera, and Palpatine even starts off the conversion as if trying to pass Plagueis off as an old Sith legend. In fact all we know was that he died probably 15 to 25 years before TPM. Do you really think Plagueis will make a return some over 30 years after ROTJ?! LOL

Maul came back from the dead according to Yoda and Kenobi openly expressed his amazement and frustration that the Sith do not die directly to Palpatine. And Sidious was impressed Maul survived and that something like that could be done. He was again surprised Vader survived on Mustafar. I hardly doubt Sidious believed in his Plagueis tale, or had everything he knew before he killed him as evidence points to the fact that he did not. In fact Sidious was allied with Mother Talzin we learn and they plotted to take over the Galaxy before Sidious knew of Maul and took him instead. but she was only one that convincingly survived death during and came back again. Only other candidate is Momin.

So being that Palpatine knew of Maul, Talzin, Vader survival cause of their power and knowledge of the Force and Momin(and even Immortal Rur), he is the most likely one to appear and not Plagueis who is a literary dead end fairy tale.

 

Ah, I understand. Anyone and everything else but Plagueis LOL!


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I've seen Plagueis. The Plagueis that you've seen. But you have no right to call him a murderer. You have a right to kill him. You have a right to do that. But you have no right to judge him. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what Plagueis means. Plagueis has a face, and you must make a friend of Plagueis. Plagueis and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies!

 

You want to go dueling over a divisive-by-design movie? As some guy once put it: Go home and rethink your life.

See, winners.



OK, yes, it's any excuse to use a Hamm-as-Gabriel GIF.

 

George & Oz didn't think it was "divisive".

"By design" is pretty clearly hyperbolic, too, with nothing to back it. End result splitting the fans is one thing, it's another to just state Rian came at this intending to **** with people as the goal. Kennedy wouldn't stand for that, and she didn't have to because it wasn't the case.

 

For what it's worth, RJ did say his intention was "to subvert fans expectations". Does that necessarily mean he was "intentionally divisive"? no, but one should surely expect a significant number if not even a majority of fans to see it that way. With this now leading into the 3rd installment of a trilogy, what RJ did with TLJ, makes if hard for JJ to create something that does not continue to subvert expectations, when no one really knows what to expect.

You add the Palpatine laugh in the teaser, and now that subversion has begun even before the real ad campaign has begun. With all of this I can fathom how you include Plagueis and explain his absence for the 8 previous movies and it even remotely feel like it flows.

 

Palpatine the puppet master, Palpatine the master manipulator, Palpatine the embodiment of evil etc..

Vader and Palpatine have been pure gold for LFL over the years, if you follow the literary theory of the better the villain the better it makes the hero, Palpatine's return was the only thing that could elevate Rey to a hero befitting of a whole trilogy.

 

The whole point of an emoticon at the end of a line is a hint to not take said line that seriously.

If you want to know where the idea that TLJ is deliberately divisive is got from, here's the answer.

Head over to the Rey and Kylo Ren thread, there's a great exchange between Enderandbean and godisawesome across three different modes of viewing the Rey and Ren plot in TLJ. Each deploys three sets of detailed arguments. And I'm to believe that isn't deliberate on the part of those who created it? So no, it isn't excessive to say they wanted to provoke. What I don't think they factored in is the degree to which they would be very, very successful at doing so. Over a year and a half later TLJ remains a hot topic.

Can post links to the posts later, can't do it on the phone. I recommend the exchange to everyone as an example of what discussion can be too.

 

Here's the links to the exchange, they are well worth reading:
https://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-835#post-55900011
https://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-835#post-55900182

Two entirely different takes on the same source material. There must by now be hundreds of for and against TLJ articles, so when I view it as being deliberately divisive and provocative I'm not seeing why that is a problem. It's simply it's nature. Whether I like it or not is a separate and personal value judgement that shouldn't affect anyone else's perception and view.

Now, back to that.... What was that guy's name in ROTS again? Yeah, the guy we're supposed to be talking about here?

 

Episode IX: Emperor Palaptine Strikes Back


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That's not a story the Jedi would tell you.

 

Plagueis is dumb.

 

I was under the impression that he was wise.

 

No...




It still burns me up that this specific line of dialogue was used with what appears to be no Plagueis payoff in the end.

 

"And you were not wise enough to resist the bait....."

 

OK, you're JJ Abrams...argue why you would have Plagueis and who would you cast???

 

Serkis? Though I wish they went with the undead Snoke as they considered for a while. I do think the original plan now was for Snoke/Plagueis to be the body Palp's spirit was possessing but I think they might change that now that the fans have messed with them so much but maybe not.

 

I hope Plagueis returns

 

So if Plagueis doesn’t appear, you will be able to claim that he was originally supposed to?