Darth Sidious, a coward?

Going back to the Mace thing, Lucas has hinted pretty strongly that that was a ploy. Losing the fight wasn't, but his begging after Anakin enters was meant to garner sympathy from Anakin. He purposely drew comparisons to the slaying of a helpless Dooku which Anakin regretted.

 

""""While a LOT of people consider any of the books to be "expendible" ... the movie translations were watched over by Lucas.

This includes "Labyrinth Of Evil".

In Labyrinth, Dooku is self-contemplating how he became a Sith. In this contemplation, he mentions Plagueis and how he was Sids master.

I think it isn't conjecture that Plagueis was Sidious' master, but rather concrete fact. """"



i agree and also if the way he talks and smiles about plagueis doesnt hint you to think or consider he was his aprenttice then you dont have a clue of what a hint is.

 

Well, if you notice, Sidious doesnt ever really lie, he just misleads, but everything he says is true, even that the dark side can save padme.

 

Of course he's a coward.

 

Irrelevant, but I thought it was funny that McDiarmid's Scottish accent was coming through in that scene.

Sids is definitely a coward. Kills master in sleep; tries to run away from Yoda...squirms like a rat when Mace has him cornered.

Sauron, we meet again...Sidious doesn't lie? He said he'd give back his emergency powers once the war ended; he told Anakin he has the power to save his wife; he promised amnesty to Dooku and the Separatist leaders once war ended...I guess that's more along the lines of deception though

 

PREAMBLE: The most powerful Force user ever???

If not the one true believer in the Unifying Force (only to use it as a means to an end), then who else?

Der "Chosen One": Ha! He couldn't even see Obi-Wan's trickery towards the end of the lava duel, getting himself toasted in the process!

Shaft: Puh-leez! I'd go with this guy IF AND ONLY IF there had been no telepathic message to der "Chosen One" over at "Jedi Central"

[I'm sure that THE most powerful Force user ever had a show-stealing chick in mind who said, "You just may be the most gullible fool I ever marked." Shaft is that fool.]

Yoda-vid: OK, OK, I'll cut with the Branch Davidian jokes, but this little green friend's arrogance truly blinded him.



Thus, the one truly logical choice... the one true believer in the Unifying Force:

"'All those who gain power are afraid to lose it' - even the Jedi."

"... if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force."



RESPONSA

The most powerful Force user ever is NOT a coward. After all, those who embrace the full power of the Force must learn to "control their fear" - as Darth Vader.

Attempting to get reinforcements to fend off a little green friend who just knocked down you and two of your best trooper-guards isn't cowardice.

 

Could somebody explain the part where Sidious tried to run from Yoda? Was it before he shot Yoda with the force lighting or after?

 

^^^ Yoda experienced a taste of the full power the Force... then treasonously attacked his lord and master instead of giving up and bowing down on bended knee before him.

Seeing the arrogant blindness of his little green friend, the most powerful Force user ever attempted to get clonetrooper reinforcements to make up for his downed guards.

 

after.

after he blasted yoda, he slowly crept up to his little green friend, looking at his hands and then laughing. yoda force pushes sids against wall; sids gets up and tries to escape but yoda blocks doorway. then he says "darth vader will become more powerful than EITHEROFUS" really quickly.

 

I don't think Palpatine/Sidious ever showed fear in the face of danger, so no, I don't think he was a coward. Evil, scheming, putting his own interests above all others? Yeah.

 

Sidius was definitely not a model citizen. Killing Plaegus while he slept was cowardly. Running from Yoda after the green one force-punched him across the room was also cowardly. Plus, I thought that he did seem a bit fearful during the sabre-duel with Yoda, which is why he started chuckin' Senate pods at the little muppet. For these reasons, he seemed to me to favor the "flee" side of the old "fight or flee" response.

His actions throughout the entire saga were aimed solely at increasing his own personal power. As some posters have pointed out, he did whatever he felt necessary for fear of losing his power, even to the point of sending his apprentices to slaughter when he wanted to "upgrade" from Maul, to Dooku, to Vader. While definitely despicable, that behavior may be considered cowardly, too.

To sum up: A coward he was.

4ceful1

 

He was not a coward per se, unless you consider using an
apprentice to do your dirty work cowardly.
He needed an apprentice to handle the dirty laundry so he could
skulk around behind the scenes and keep up his appearance as the
old and wise Senator Palpatine. When he knew he had the Senate
in a tight grip, the Jedi on the ropes and Anakin as his new
puppet he no longer felt the need to hide as he once did.
I don't think coward would apply.

 

Doing the smart thing isn't an excuse for doing the cowardly thing. Yoda ran away because he realized that he couldn't win. Sidious would do the cowardly thing by calling his clones in if Yoda stuck around. Yoda fled because he knew Sidious was a coward.

this is the most ridiculous post i've read in a while.

you defend yoda who ran like a frightened school girl, and failed in his objective to boot, and call the person who defeated him strait up one on one a coward?

that's some pretty pathetic logic and the clones thing is realy getting old.

he didn't call his clones, the clones appeared AFTER yoda's defeat not durring, not before.

they are a non factor and we all saw how easily yoda dispenses with a few clones.

for my money yoda is no coward, he did the smart thing and lived to fight another day, but you can't have that view and call the person who defeated him a coward, while at the same time maintaining an argument with any integrity at all.

 

not just a coward, an evil coward.

he wanted to rule the galaxy with the Force, but he knew that in his way would stand the jedi.

his fear of losing power to the jedi prompted his wicked scheme which set in motion the events which would change our heros' lives forever.

Knowing even he could not wipe out every jedi himself, he invented the events leading to the clone war and to the destruction of the republic. Throughout he has had these goals:

Eliminate the Jedi, Disband the Senate, Assume Leadership of the Galaxy, and, in a final insult an show of victory ofer the Jedi, have the Jedi's beloved "Chosen One" as his personal apprentice and slave. Yet he used countless others as disposable props towards his goals without liftng a finger. A coward he is.

 

Okay. To my knowledge on Darth Sidious, he did not kill his master in his sleep. I think the Darth Plageis (however that is spelled) story was completely unrelated to him. While from what we can tell that would be a story of the Sith after Darth Bane, it seems to me that it wasn't something Palpatine would be involved in. Very often it hints in various areas (namely the Star Wars databank) that Palpatine got his information on the Sith from Korriban and Sith holocrons, not from a specific Sith master. Which explains why the Jedi had presumed that the Sith were extinct, as they almost were.

As for twitching when Anakin pulls out his lightsaber, any sane person would twitch when somebody pulls out a weapon that can cut off most of your limbs.

And yeah, he tried running from Yoda. But honestly, who really wants to try fighting Yoda one-on-one? It's just not a very wise idea. Getting many guards to shoot Yoda until he's dead seems to be a more strategic manuever.

 

He's got too much on his mind at the minute, the Empire is created, Order 66, the chosen one is fighting Kenobi in a dangerous planet.

Who wouldn't run?

 

How can someone be a coward who is willing to get up in the morning everyday and act on his ambition. Especially an ambition such as ruling the universe.

The cowards are Obi-wan and Yoda for not going back to stop Sidious when it was 2 jedi against one Sith. At this point,as far as Obi-wan and Yoda were concerned, Vader was ash on Mustafarr. Why oh why didn't they go back and attempt to kill Sidious? or arrest him or hang him up by the scrotum for all to see.

 

as far as yoda being a Wuss, The jedi were Whiped out ina matter of mintues in the movie, He Had his Fight and he was Whooping Major ass, The Reason he run is one He Has too, and He wouldn't ahve ran if Clone's didn't show up, if you remember Clones Came to the Emperors aid Right after yoda Fell to the Floor of the Senate, Are you gonna stay as a 2 and a half foot tall green matian Fighting someone who is already a hard Foe, when that foe gets backed up by like 15 Blasters and more on the way, No you get your little green ass outta there so you can train a New hope in 20 or so years.

 

Sorry but 2 Jedi (esp. of Yoda's and Kenobi's caliber) should have been able to take care of any one Sith. Even with clone guards.

 

Do you think Yoda came to realize that if either of them fought Sidious and loose, that will be the end of the Jedi order?

Their priority was to keep the children safe, and wait for the right time to train them. It was the only hope.

I don't see their actions as cowardice.

 

"Sorry but 2 Jedi (esp. of Yoda's and Kenobi's caliber) should have been able to take care of any one Sith. Even with clone guards."

lol I don't think so!
QGJ said it himself, they're Jedi, keepers of the peace,
not soldiers. What you expect is more than they could or were
willing to handle at that time and rightly so.
Charging off after a heavily guarded Sids could be the end of
them and then no one would be able to train the children of
Anakin Skywalker. I'd rather take off and ensure the children
get trained then run into battle where I am severely out
numbered. They made the right choice for the greater good.

 

Malikail: Okay, I'll admit that that comparison was flawed. That's the kind of thing I end up typing after a long work day with too little coffee. However, this is the only instance where Yoda does a cowardly thing. Palpatine's entire existence revolves around cowardice and fear. As I stated in a previous post, he only attacks when the battle is obviously in his favor or if he is forced to fight and has no other option, and even then, he tries to flee if possible. It isn't a stretch to assume that he would have eventually called in his clones if it started to look like he couldn't kill Yoda alone. He is a very dishonorable character, chosing to stab someone in the back or catch them off guard and murder them in their sleep rather than fight, avoiding a risky conflict at all costs.

 

my problem with that arguement particularly, the part about how he only attacks when the battle is in his favor is that you've just called every great military leader in history a coward.

he is not a gladiator, we can't measure cowardice in the way you would measure it in a school yard bully.

for him to strait up challenge every jedi to a duel to the death standing on the temple steps with maul by his side as sidious would only get them both killed.

that's not his goal, he wants to bring down the republic, destroy and kill the jedi and rule everything.

he's obviously ambitious, and confident enough to sit in a room of jedi masters and talk to them.

when we consider the only real definition of cowardice is letting your fear control your actions and prevent you from accomplishing your goal, I simply cannot see how this applies to sidious.

If it did he would have surrendered when 4 armed council members faced him, because his fear would have taken over and he would have abandoned his goal at that moment.

being a slimy, sneaky, manipulative, scheaming, rotten, evil, pathetic excuse for a human being and hiding in the shadows to accomplish what you want because you know you can't do it by force doesn't make you a coward, sadly it made him smart enough to pull it off.

 

I thought they went out like punks