Did ObiWan Stowing away on Padme's ship push Anakin past the point of no return?.

anakin returned in rotj buddies...

 

But if Padme had told Anakin that PalpSidious was the one trying to kill her for all these years, that would've enabled Anakin to realise that he made a mistake in stopping Mace Windu from killing Sidious which led to the Temple assault. Anakin would've surrendered himself to any Jedi that hadn't been killed off in the Order 66 massacre, including Obi-wan.

No, he wouldn't because as shown in Return of the Jedi, Anakin is not entirely past the point of no return because he can still give up the Dark Side at any time and his reaction to Padme leaving him would be similar to the one when Luke told him that his father is dead.

Both Anakin's wife and son believe that there's still good in him and both were proven right.

 

You assume that Anakin didn't figure this out for himself?

Remember, he "would very much like to kill" Sidious the moment Palpatine reveals himself; and he wants to kill him still while on Mustafar. Anakin knows and he thinks he's doing the right thing not only by killing him, but by usurping him.

I can't believe people think Padme was getting through or would get through to Anakin after this quote:

"The Jedi turned against me, don't you turn against me!"

Did you even see his face while he said that? The boy was already getting angry.

Padme.could.not.turn.Anakin, she went to Mustafar to try and failed - they know each other too well, too long. Anakin doesn't trust her anymore, he suspects her of treachery against "his new Empire" and of being loyal to Obi Wan. He doesn't want her love, he rejects it. He just wants her as his sidekick, someone who could help him rule the galaxy.

"Love won't save you Padme, only my new powers can"

Luke had a clean slate, there was nothing Anakin/Vader could possibly hold against him because they never knew each other; that's why Lukes compassion and belief, in a man he never knew, ring so strong and true. He has no reason, at all, to care for this villain; but he still does. Only such an extreme could bring back the conflict, and even then he rejects Luke and takes him to the Emperor to have him suffer the same fate he did himself. It's not until Palpatines killing Luke that Anakin returns.

- O_F

 

The lust of power, not only the power to save Padme, but the overall lure of unlimited power is what appealed to Anakin.

It starts with the "offer" of learning how to stop people from dying that baits Anakin. Once he's on the hook, he becomes enamored with becoming more powerful than any other Jedi or Sith EVER. He has no love for Sidious, only an empty promise that through his teachings he will attain ultimate power. His deal with the devil is made at this point.

He was past the point of no return the second he agreed to go to the Jedi temple and slaughter the younglings. Even if they were fully trained Jedi, it wouldn't have mattered. Anakin was on the dark path at that point with no hope of turning it around.

 

"The thing that breaks Padme's heart in the end is the fact that Anakin says to her, 'Come and join me. I have all the power now. I can rule the universe and you can do it with me.' So the idea of saving her life has become a minor issue. And that's when she says, 'Wait a minute. This is not what I want and you're not the guy I fell in love with!'"

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 52


"At this point, Vader?s plan really, now that he knows he?s his son, is to convince him to come with him. Join the Dark Side and together they?re going to overthrow the Emperor, which is the thematic devices used through the whole movies in terms of the Sith, which is Sith Lords are usually no more than two because if there are three, then two of them will gang up on one to try to become the dominate Sith. Anakin would have been able to do it if he hadn?t been debilitated and now he?s half machine and half man, so he?s lost a lot of the power of the Force, and he?s lost a lot of his ability to be more powerful then the Emperor. But Luke hasn?t. Luke is Vader?s hope. His motives at this point are purely evil. He simply wants to continue on what he was doing before which is get rid of the Emperor and make himself Emperor. He only sees his son as a mechanism for the ambition. His mad lust of power."

--George Lucas, TESB DVD Commentary.

Padme couldn't save him. Anakin was too far gone to be saved by her or by Obi-wan. It would take Padme's death, his injuries and Luke's influence to get him to come back. To see the mistakes in his life and do the right thing.

 

No,Kenobi did not cause Anakin to hurt Padme'. Anakin had already turned to the Dark Side . It's that simple. Anakin was crazy from the start. He was getting angry about Padme's speech. I'm just so depressed.Why Anakin
,Why?



Gloriaskywalker


I LOVE ANAKIN SKYWALKER

 

"
Remember, he "would very much like to kill" Sidious the moment Palpatine reveals himself; and he wants to kill him still while on Mustafar. Anakin knows and he thinks he's doing the right thing not only by killing him, but by usurping him."


I definitely believe that at the beginning he wanted to do the right thing and kill palpatine, not for power but because it needed to be done.

however, during the discussion with padme, i definitely think his priorities changed.

remember, yoda said:
attachment leads to jealousy, the precursor of greed.

 

Agreed Darth Sinister
Anakin would also be like "YOU LET HIM FOLLOW YOU HERE TO KILL ME!" or something.

 

I think there is a big part of this being left out. Example: The teaser poster for EP 2 reads: "A Jedi shall not know anger, nor hatred... nor love" In other words, this is saying, that for jedi, love is destructive. It leads to a desire to keep someone close to you, and eventually greed, as we saw in the little talk that Anakin and Yoda had in Ep 3. Now... why are we saying that Obi-Wan's presence on the ship isnt significant when is clearly IS? There is clearly a slight love triangle going on here, at least in Anakin's mind. His greed and jealousy have been pushed over the edge by the dark side, and this pushes him to hurt his wife. So yes, Obi-Wan's presence does push him to hurt her. It's kind of like "If I cant have you, no one can."

Now I am not saying that if Obi-Wan wasnt there at all, Anakin would not have hurt Padme. I am sure that when she refused to join him, he would have hurt her in some way. I think that at that point in the film, Anakin looked at Padme as kind of a posession. His wife, his... trophy kind of thing. I mean, these people are married and deeply in love. They have a whole intimate relationship that we never really saw. We have to assume that Anakin's jealousy (as well as his other emotions) are deeply fueled by the dark side now, and at this point, become abusive. Am I making sense?

 

Just because Obi was on the ship? Uhhh..... no.

Good Stuff

 

I don't think Obi-Wan stowing on padmes ship MADE Anakin reach the "point of no return" but I DO think that it basically confirmed his suspicions or maybe what he was fearing. I think it helped STRENGTHEN his feeling of not turning back-but not create it. I believe the "point of no return" for him was when he and Sidious killed Mace Windu.

 

Agreed. =)

 

True, Anakin was getting angry at Padme but he still had no intentions of harming her until he saw Obi-wan standing inside her ship which is when Anakin had past his boiling point. If Anakin wanted to kill Sidious, he should have done it the second Sidious revealed himself instead of letting him sucker Anakin to believing that killing the Jedi can help him save Padme so yeah, I believe that Anakin didn't figure this out for himself.

Padme failed because Obi-wan ruined her chances to reach Anakin by showing himself. That is when Anakin didn't trust her anymore and accused her of bringing Obi-wan with her to kill him which led to the Force choke. Obi-wan may have felt responsible for Padme's death which is why he told Luke that he "cannot interfere" when Luke took off to Bespin to fight Darth Vader.

 

Padme getting choked was due to bad choices made by herself and Anakin.

"Anakin was getting angry at Padme but he still had no intentions of harming her until he saw Obi-wan standing inside her ship which is when Anakin had past his boiling point."

So what was Anakin going to do after Padme refused him and his offer? Wish her the best and a kiss on the cheek? Nah, he would have killed her. Obi Wan saves her.

 

Padme getting choked was due to bad choices made by herself and Anakin.

So a woman who is abused in a relationship is to blame because of the
choices she made? Like choosing to be with someone off-kilter?

Sorry, don't buy it.

 

Padme chose not to tell Obi Wan where Anakin was then went to him. Her bad choice put her in a position where she was harmed by Anakin. Aiding a criminal got her choked-out.

 

Coming to the aid of your spouse whom you are worried about isn't exactly
accomplice-like behavior.

 

The intent isn't, but the action is.

She had no reason in the world to not believe what Obi Wan told her about Anakin. She should have told him where he was. I mean, she's the one always going on about how Obi Wan cares for us and that maybe Obi Wan can help. All of a sudden she thinks Obi Wan would make up something as horrible as killing children. She already knows that Anakin is capable of this kind of behavior when she made her first bundle of bad choices. Anakin looks like a crazed lunitic when he talks to Padme before going to Mustafar. She's still not convinced after Obi Wan confirms this? And worst yet, she wants to find out, alone.

Bad choice, bad outcome. At least Obi Wan was there. The children may not have survived if he hadn't. She made her bed and it turned into a coffin.

 

So Obi Wan having to go to Mustafar to see Anakin for his own eyes is ok
and justifiable, in your humble opinion.
Yet, Padme, his wife, whom he is throwing it all away for, having to go see
Anakin for her own eyes is wrong, and that b***h gets what she deserves.
Nice to see the misogyny GL has planted into SW has come to proper fruition.

 

True, Anakin was getting angry at Padme but he still had no intentions of harming her until he saw Obi-wan standing inside her ship which is when Anakin had past his boiling point. If Anakin wanted to kill Sidious, he should have done it the second Sidious revealed himself instead of letting him sucker Anakin to believing that killing the Jedi can help him save Padme so yeah, I believe that Anakin didn't figure this out for himself.

Who's to say that he wouldn't choke her, if Obi-wan wasn't there? That she went to board the Skiff and he didn't reach out and choke her, to prevent her from leaving? He only has trouble killing Luke because he "killed" Padme. If she left him, he'd stop her his way. Not by turning back to the good side, but by Forcing her to stay. If she is not with him, she is against him. Think about it. He'd punish her for leading Obi-wan to him. Do you honestly think he'd let her walk away, after all he did for her?

"Showing how much Anakin and Padme care for each other is one of my weak points. Expressing that is hard to do. It's really hard in the end to express the idea, I'm so in love with you that I would do anything to save you; I'd give up everything -friends, my whole life- for you, and make that real-make that stick-and say it in two minutes. When I created it I knew I wanted two hard right turns-it's designed to be that way-and I knew I was taking a real chance that it wasn't going to work. But you have to see if you can make it work. If it doesn't work, well then I'm going to get skewered for it. But if I can make it work, it'll be neat. It'll be good."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith.

He gave up everything for her and for her to speak the way she did, was a slap in the face. He warned her that he didn't want to hear anymore about Obi-wan and what he told her. He warned her. Did you not hear the anger in his voice? Did you not hear the threat? He's so far gone that he's not even thinking straight. Look at him after he let's her go. There's a brief flash of shock that he did it, before becoming consumed by his anger and hate, redirecting it towards Obi-wan.

He only listens to Luke because he feels guilty for what he did and what he could do again.

 

"So Obi Wan having to go to Mustafar to see Anakin for his own eyes is ok
and justifiable, in your humble opinion."

Obi Wan has a job to do. He wanted to face a Sith Lord and was instructed to confront a Sith apprentice. Weather he wanted to see for himself or not, it was his duty to confront Anakin as a member of the Jedi council. So, he wasn't "going to Mustafar to see Anakin for his own eyes". He did that when he turned on the security recording.

"Yet, Padme, his wife, whom he is throwing it all away for, having to go see
Anakin for her own eyes is wrong, and that b***h gets what she deserves.
Nice to see the misogyny GL has planted into SW has come to proper fruition."

Wanting to see for herself is understandable, not wrong. She should have told Obi Wan where Anakin was or at least proposed a deal saying that she could come too. Weather Obi Wan would allow it is insignificant to the bigger picture. She should have did what was asked of her and gave the authorities the information requested. She was choked-out as a result of bad decision making.

 

She was choked-out as a result to bad decision making.


Funny, I thought she was choked because Anakin was swelling with evil power.
How different a result do you actually think that conversation would have
been had it taken place in Padme's apartment.

Anakin is now evil. He has evil plans. Padme won't join.
She would have been choked regardless.

 

Now i'm confused. What are you arguing here? My point is that he would have choked her in Obi Wan's stead. People were saying it was his fault. I guess we agree.

 

That to blame Padme for what happens to her is absurd.
And I compared that to blaming a victim of domestic abuse for
staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Absurd. Neither Obi Wan nor Padme are to blame. Anakin is.
He would have done that to Padme anywhere when he realized that
she would not join him.

 

She didn't deserved to be choked, but she put herself in danger by going to him. In the earlier drafts, the Battle Droids that weren't destroyed by Anakin, come out to kill Captain Typho and the handmaidens, before Anakin can get there to stop them. However, Lucas removed that as he felt it was unnecessary. But the point remains is that she went out there to see for herself if Anakin was as far gone as Obi-wan claimed. She also risked a lot to do this. And unknowingly, she endangered herself.

Again, if Obi-wan hadn't been there and she tried to take off, he would've gotten violent with her.