JCC Embrace The FU - Formerly the STAR WARS IS BAD thread

I heartily agree with that sentiment.

 

So if Hitler was 21 at the outset of WWII then his campaign of mass murder and suffering would be okay?

21 year old gestapo agents were just young and naive?

I'm not trying to Godwin's Law here, but we are talking about the birth of actual space Nazis. The empire's whole design was to evoke WWII Germany.

 

Well that would depend on what ideas you subscribe to in term so how the Force works.
Or what fan theories you believe.

Anakin was always destined to bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith, but there was never anything in the prophesy that said he didn't have to be a Sith first in order to do that. If the Force itself conceived him for that very purpose, it likely determined his destiny was do destroy the Sith from within.

So maybe he was always going to be a Sith Lord, because it needed to happen for him to fulfill his destiny.

After all, if he had not fallen, Sidious would still have started the Clone Wars and destroyed the Jedi with Order 66.
He just would have done it with someone else, probably Dooku. Those plans were in place before Anakin even came into the picture. He only needed Darth Vader to help him mop up the Jedi survivors and wipe out the Order permanently (so he thought anyway). Darth Tyranus was arguably strong enough to have been able to achieve that goal, though maybe not as easily as Vader.

 

The Force: All Cavity Plot Hole Filler.

Anakin isn't a tragic character as portrayed in the prequels. As @anakinfansince1983 pointed out, he was well beyond old enough to explain his discomfort with his new surroundings.

The reality is that he's entitled. He feels entitled to having more power than he has. He feels entitled to sex with his older girlfriend, and begs her for it. He feels entitled to being a Jedi Master.

He's an entitled whiny ****.

Dave Filoni is speaking baloney.

 

If you spent 10 years being told by everyone you were the Chosen One, destined to be the most powerful Jedi ever, you'd probably be frustrated if it didn't happen quicker.
Especially if you're already emotionally troubled & being told to suppress that because it's bad.

He wanted power he was told he was going to have.

 

You can blame that part on Jar-Jar

 

When did Anakin ever refer to himself as the Chosen One? Was he ever even told? How do we know that was reinforced? (If any smart ass says The Clone Wars, I say a children's show years after the fact is still EU material, no matter the "canon" and the movies have to stand alone.)

Dave Filoni said orphans are emotionally damaged and bad.

Like these apologetics are bad.

 

"Someday I will be. I will be the most powerful Jedi ever"

Plus the whole Mortis Arc stuff told him plenty.

Qui Gon literally stands in front of the Council with Anakin and says "he is the Chosen One"

Anakin knew his destiny, and that was part of the problem.

 

In the same movie he begged for sex. Entitled.

Oh and his memory got completely wiped at the end of the arc, rendering it pointless.

This is the closest you get to an argument, but Anakin is a child. We are all told we are special at that age (Meant to be 8? 9?) but we all grow out of it. There is nothing to reinforce that is something he grows up with.

Hell, if we use those same Clone Wars episodes you use against me, Anakin is confused about the whole Chosen One thing.

TL;DR Put this thread out of its misery, the apologists are killing it and me.

 

There is nothing wrong with an age difference in a consenting relationship. But, I hate to use this internet term because I know it can be used by unsavoury types.

To quote a podcaster I like:

"Darth Vader is Simp Supreme, and that makes him the worst!"

That fireside scene undermines everything. The costume choices, the lighting and the setting. Anakin is a sex pest. She says no, and he begs for sex.

 

The Chosen One prophecy is a big part of Anakin's fall. It can't not be included in the story.

The biggest problem in the Prequels is that it's difficult to understand why Padme loves Anakin. He such a whiny creep & she's an ambitious smart senator.
TCW at least shows why Anakin might be someone Padme would love, but that's after AOTC.

If the romance that is the centre of your story doesn't work well, the rest falls apart.

 

The chosen one is a ridiculous part of star wars


But then I dislike vague "prophecy" anyway as it's just a really tired trope

 

None of that explains why the simple act of a father sacrificing himself for his son is now better as part of a cosmic plan.

If Vader is chosen to do it, then it's all out of his control and all dramatic tension is lost. All familial purpose is lost.

That isn't hope. That's you are at the whims of fate. Pick your message @SithLordDarthRichie

 

"All is as the Force wills it"

"It is your destiny"

"There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny "

Etc

The Force has always decided everything. That was established in the OT.

Some physicists say even our own lives are pre-determined, we just don't know it.
The illusion of free will.

 

That isn't hope! That's everything is a plan! That's everything as a recovering alcoholic I'm trained to stop believing! By trained therapists!

Knock off the apologetics before they hurt someone.

 

Much anger I sense in him.

 

This ****ing thread, man.

 

Please give me a list of those physicists. And it better be more than half of them.

 

Heard of Einstein?
His theory of relativity suggests that.

Theories don't have to have proof to be theories.
Anyone can propose such an idea, then it has to be proven.

I don't personally believe it, but it's possible we've already lived our life and we're just catching up to it as the universe expands.

The light you see from stars is an image of them from thousands of years ago or more. Some of those stars may no longer exist but we won't notice for centuries because the light from them is still travelling here.

This isn't new science

 

In who?

Jesus...

Tell me about the fluoride in the water next, please.

 

I do think that the "prophecy" plot thread is inserted lazily and stupidly.

But this conflict you're positing isn't necessarily true. All the prophecy requires is that he destroy the Sith. It doesn't necessarily prescribe how, and one need not assume that the exact moment was fixed in history. He could have done it by helping Mace Windu arrest Palpatine. Or at the other extreme, he might have have let his son turn evil, killed his whole family, let the Empire reign for another 20 years, and only in his old age repent and destroy the Sith apparatus that he had created. Under that theory, it still has meaning that the particular moment that prompted his transformation was his son being in danger.

 

Indeed.

It was always going to happen, but when and how wasn't certain.
Though some, like Palpatine, believed they knew everything that was going to happen and so couldn't be defeated.