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Amph Engage! The Star Trek: TNG General Discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Constant_shadow, Jan 3, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, the sleeper thing did make me think at first this was Gene retreading yet another concept from TOS but thankfully it was more benign.


    :eek: No. Freaking. Way! :eek:

    So, not only did B5 "inspire" the broader strokes of DS9... another JMS-written show is also the inspiration for the freaking Borg? [face_laugh] [face_laugh] Ho-lee-crap. [face_laugh]
     
  2. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    201: The Child:
    -Premise: Counselor Troi is impregnanted by an alien entity; Wesley Crusher is weighing his options for the future, with the help of the proprietor of the ship's lounge, Ten Forward.

    -T2Q Comments: Geordi is now Chief Engineer- but sadly they don't elaborate as to why- also now we have Polaski with a departing Crusher not present. We get to see Ten-Forward and Whoopi for the first time.

    Data is going one way down a corridor to see Polaski...but then helps Deanna to sickbay (where Polaski is) by going the opposite direction...Data's babbling questions amusing, and the Data/Dahta conversation is fun- I like the Data/Pulaski interplay, though it has too much of a touch of Spock/McCoy to feel wholly original.

    I see Bob Barker's efforts to prevent puppies from breeding into the 24th century have failed, but why do they have half a dozen puppies stuffed into a net basket? Where do they take puppies to do their business on a starship?

    O'Brien at the transporter where he belongs, I see. Very cool shot from Ten-Forward of the jump to warp- I don't think we really ever see this effect again to my knowledge, as warp jumps are usually from the bridge POV without seeing the viewscreen or from the external of the ship. We also get the establishment/hints of the mystery of Guinan.

    A little dry of an episode, but not terrible- though I wouldn't be inclined to rewatch this one given a better alternative, and little of importance happens in the episode (the only important things have apparently happened between seasons off-screen). Forgettable.



    202: Where Silence Has Lease:
    -Premise: When an alien traps the Enterprise and threatens to kill half the crew purely out of curiosity, Captain Picard is faced with a grim decision.

    -T2Q Comments: Riker and Worf vs virtual a TMNT2 mutant and Skeletor...and a complete scene, not sure how it's supposed to function as a setup for anything, let alone a teaser for the episode.

    "Familiar with the wormhole phenomena"- an unintentionally interesting comment given the forthcoming DS9. The enveloping by the hole of the ship should have been the teaser.

    "I'm familiar with the layout of the Yamato", well, since you've said it's a sister ship to the D and how most bridges are the same...you should be.

    Gah- Giant Space Face, too silly to ignore!

    Why does Giant Space Face single out Pulaski for being female? Troi's right there! Frankly, I'd be a bit insulted if I were her...2nd TNG auto-destruct attempt (4th overall).

    The whole Giant Space Face thing feels retreading of both TOS and Q plotlines, it has some interesting moments and some ok tension, but just have to say "Average" overall.



    203: Elementary, Dear Data:
    -Premise: The Enterprise is threatened when a character in Data and La Forge's holodeck simulation becomes sentient.

    T2Q Comments: Holodeck Episode. Th Moriarty character very intriguing, one of the better antagonists on the show, IMO. And is it me, or is the Holodeck one of the most poorly beta-tested pieces of hardware/software in mankind's history?

    Data presents Geordi with the Enterprise sketch upside down so that it will be right-side up after Geordi twirls it around to face the camera...

    A noble enough of a resolution- shame he couldn't wait till Voyager got home, then he'd be up and about easily like the 'Doc.

    Given that he pops up later in another good episode, I'm going to say this is Definitely Essential.



    Up next: 204: The Outrageous Okona, 205: Loud as a Whisper and 206: The Schizoid Man.
     
  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    204: The Outrageous Okana:
    -Premise: The Enterprise-D crew rescue a roguish freighter captain whose ship is malfunctioning, but his presence drags them into an interplanetary feud.

    -T2Q Comments: Today's episode of TNG features Jordan Collier as Dash Rendar and TV's Lois Lane as the Easily Seduced Transporter Lt.

    "Who is considered the funniest?" why, Joe Piscipo, of course (apparently playing a character named Ronald D. Moore...). Piscipo as Jerry Lewis, oh god, make it stop, please make it stop...

    "Lasers won't even penetrate our navigation shields" "in case we decide to surrender"; "they'd be crazy to- they wouldn't stand a chance!" "right!" like Picard's slight bemusement of the situation, and his momentary confusion of "on viewer" "which ship?" "what? the first one".

    However, a sappy and coincidental resolution stretching for a possible Romeo & Juliet-esque analogy. Kind of a fun episode, but that noteworthy. It's sequel, Shadows of the Empire, is a lot more entertaining ;)

    "Average".



    205: Loud as a Whisper:
    -Premise: The Enterprise brings a deafmute negotiator to mediate the end of a planetary civil war.

    -T2Q Comments: Again with a "why is this the tease?" intro. An elegant form of communication? How about unnecessarily complicated "sorry, my artistic proxy has to use the can, and my libido proxy contracted something...".

    Interesting that Pulaski's examination of Geordi sets up the visor replacement-eyes he gets in the movies, though the subplot apparently is not brought up again in the series despite the setup here. "thank you- thank me!" amusing.

    Overall, Forgettable.



    206: The Schizoid Man:
    -Premise: An away team discovers the dying Doctor Ira Graves, who claims to be Data's "grandfather."

    T2Q Comments: Taking the added risk of a near-warp beaming...doesn't seem worth it- would the extra 5 seconds really make that much of a difference?

    Soul Hunter! Kinda nice to have a non-villainous, likeable brilliant scientist whose still kind of as ass, for once. "To mourn a man who will never know death" ::cough:: ok, scratch the non-villainous part as he may not be heading down a good path with Data, though I have enjoyed their interaction a lot up until now

    Ah the warp effect again, nice. Ira/Data funeral speech a bit too overt and bit too much, though. Good Picard moment vs Ira/Data, but poorly choreographed punch/fall into wall is kinda laughable. And I gues sthis one room is where Data goes to lie down on the floor when needed... ;)

    A good Data episode, feels like a continuation of Datalore to a small extent, though not overtly so. Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential.



    Up next: 207: Unnatural Selection, 208: A Matter of Honor and 209: The Measure of a Man.
     
  4. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    207: Unnatural Selection:
    -Premise: The Enterprise investigates the deaths of the crew of the USS Lantree, who all died of old age.

    -T2Q Comments: I like the quest-feel to finding the Lantree, quarantining it and moving onto the last ports of call... wonder if any scavengers would risk breaking the quarantine to acquire Starfleet tech/ship?

    New lifesize action figure with form-fitting bubble! This old lady reminds me of the target lady on SNL.

    Age makeup again...but at least, so far, it's more effective than past attempts (though Pulaski keeps looking like she's smiling as she talks), still- STOP USING PLOTS INVOLVING RAPID AGING!

    Ok age-makeup getting worse- and, apparently, the extensive makeup here contributed to her not being on the show past this season.

    The "it's good to see you again" stop by Picard is a rather nice touch. The techno-babble modification solution strikes me as a in-theory plausible, but not as effective in execution as shown, option. Like, why would her hair be all nice looking again?

    Was it neccesary to destroy the Lantree? They could just beam-and-filter the whole ship and give it a new crew after decontamination procedures.

    The whole evolution/genetic-engineering plot is a bit forced or heavy-handed (and apparently is contradicted by mentions of bans on such activities in other episodes), but I liked this episode; good but not essential



    208: A Matter of Honor:
    -Premise: Riker serves as an exchange officer on a Klingon warship.

    -T2Q Comments: Another dry setup tease but at least this is a setup for something. Tthe O'Brien/Riker exchange before transport is amusing.

    Brian Thompson! Yay!

    I admit, as cheesy as it is, the Riker/Klingon mess hall chat is highly amusing. Klingons are hard to write and portray as three-dimensional characters, but most of the ones in this episode pull it off, except for the Captain, whose rash decisions to go into battle are cliche and unsupported. Had it been a better-substantiated, if incorrect, conclusion, the episode would ahve been much more effective. Still, fun in the Klingon kind of way. Good, but not necessarily essential.



    209: The Measure of a Man:
    -Premise: The Enterprise must defend Data's status when Starfleet demands his reassignment for study.

    T2Q Comments: The first poker game of the series (though I've found it an odd tradition if they no longer have money or pay (as per The Neutral Zone, First Contact, etc) to wager..) The Tasha Yar holo a nice touch.

    Court plotline incoming, uh-oh...

    As interesting a point in Data's favor, I must still lament referencing events from The Naked Now, especially THAT event...

    Surprisingly not terrible courtroom discussion since it's more of a philosophical discussion.

    "You buying?" again, with what money?

    Good episode, though with some potential essentialness from the poker and Data elements



    Up next: 210: The Dauphin, 211: Contagion and 212: The Royale.

    And just because I have to, here's a clip for us to dwell on as we away The Dauphin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0_70d-KVe4

    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]
     
  5. PetraKenobi

    PetraKenobi Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2008
    never thought I'd join in on a TNG discussion but I'm slowly warming up more to the series. It's not QUITE as annoying as it used to seem.
     
  6. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    210: The Dauphin:
    -Premise: Wesley falls in love with the new leader of a war-torn planet.

    -T2Q Comments: I see at least some of these people turn into rejects from the Forest Moon of Endor. Wesley in love, how, arg...getting advice from everyone, I really have no interest in this plot- seriously, who thought "You know what would make a great episode? Star Trek dating tips!"

    Riker/Guinan flirting just too much, but "shut up kid" is funny (shut up Wesley throwback? ;) ) and the "kill the patient" morph scene is probably one of the funniest things I've ever seen

    Despite the episode as a whole, Picard's moments make me genuinely want to like this episode- but Stewart is just that good, while this episode is not

    Ah, she's a Vorlon!

    Ok, but not essential, borderline Forgettable



    211: Contagion:
    -Premise: The Enterprise and a Romulan warbird are attacked by the same computer virus that destroyed another Federation starship.

    -T2Q Comments: Always nice to have another Galaxy-class around...well, even for a short while ;) The Yamato is the first Galaxy lost on screen...

    Romulans back in play. Unfortunately the cause of the malfunction is telegraphed 10 minutes in rather plainly

    Aappearing out of thin air seems "magical"? transporter! commonplace technology! hello?

    Geordi's wild ride, all aboard!

    The splint conversation sadly falls prey to the edges of we art uber human. Data's reaction to throwing Geordi is fantastic.

    Aware of risks using Transporter...why not use a shuttle?

    Everyone's tense so Deanna suggests they give the crew something to do, so Rike suggests evacuation- how the hell is that going to make them less tense?

    So essentially the solution is to reinstall windows? how come they didn't try that to begin with?

    Really good episode, but it also highlights the We Art Uber Human hypocrisy of past comments remarking at how uncivilized or primitive humanity and othe cultures used to be/are for having different nations and flags in conflict, yet they do the same stuff with the Romulans ala destroying ancient technology to prevent the oposing side from acquiring it.

    Romulan connection and Iconian gateways (later to be revisted in DS9) makes this Definitely Essential



    212: The Royale:
    -Premise: The Enterprise investigates the wreckage of a 21st century Earth spaceship orbiting a distant planet and the appearance of a casino with inhabitants based on a paperback novel.

    T2Q Comments: Beaming aboard a piece of floating debris that just happens to be perfectly balanced to stand upright...I'd expect it to fall over. NASA tag a nice, grounded tease, unlike the rest of the episode forthcoming.

    Once they lose communications by walking through door, why not try to step back outside to check in first?. This is feeling like a non-holodeck holodeck episode or time planet of the week episode. Although they establish they can;t walk back out through the door, still doesn't excuse why they didn't try earlier.

    Data's dice rolling amusing, but still, bad episode- would have been a bad episode even if it had been a holodeck episode; Forgettable.



    Up next: 213: Time Squared, 214: The Icarus Factor and 215: Pen Pals.
     
  7. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Fun fact: The mission patch on Col. Ritchie's space suit is from Apollo 17.
     
  8. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    is it a bad episode or just a bad story, a fact Picard laments lengthily? :D
     
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Both ;)

    The story, as acknowledged, is bad, but the premise that causes them to experience that story is also bad, or, at the very least, is derivative of other Trek plots (Nomad, V'ger, A Piece of the Action, etc).
     
  10. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    On the plus...it's one of the best uses of support actors in the whole series...just about every player in the casino has had lauded careers as character actors.
     
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Very true- though there are a lot of then-upcoming/known names that have popped up so far- hard to top the Billy Campbell/Teri Hatcher/Piscipo episode.
     
  12. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Yeah.

    Ashley Judd is only reason to watch "The Game" again.
     
  13. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000

    213: Time Squared:
    -Premise: The Enterprise discovers a duplicate of Picard from six hours in the future.

    -T2Q Comments: Finally, an episode that doesn't open on the same damn shot of the ship. Again, not much of a teaser opening.

    Why drag the 2nd Picard to sickbay? Why not just beam him there? Wouldn't that be faster and less likely to cause harm or worsen his condition?

    "You're not indestructible yourself, ya know" strikes me as an interesting moment- almost feels like it's a line out of ESB or something.

    Second Galaxy-class destruction occurance, first for the Enterprise-D. Various vortex and ship visuals rather neat.

    Has a bit of a "this happened and we move on" vibe to it, so ending is a tad unfulfilling, but still, Good Episode But Not Essential- however, it was apparently originally intended to be followed by Q Who, where they would ahve revealed Q had created the vortex (there's a similar energy blast that destroys the probe and ship to Q's "flick across the galaxy"). Also worth noting is this is the first instance of time travel in TNG.



    214: The Icarus Factor:
    -Premise: When Commander Riker is offered command of the starship Aries, his estranged father, Kyle Riker, is sent by Starfleet to brief him on the mission. Meanwhile, Data, La Forge, Dr. Pulaski, Wesley, and O'Brien help Worf celebrate the anniversary of his Rite of Ascension.

    -T2Q Comments: Riker getting possible promotion is interesting, Wesley trying to help out Worf's issues, not.

    Pulaski knowing Riker's father seems strange that she would not mention it to him. Worf ceremony not very compelling- it's like they needed an excuse for something that felt more Star Trek kitchy. Ooh- American TRON Gladiators!

    Riker's decision rushed to conclusion/explaination- not a bad episode, but not one I'd want to rewatch.



    215: Pen Pals:
    -Premise: On a mission to investigate geologic instability in the Selcundi-Drema sector, Data makes contact with a young girl from a pre-warp civilization on a planet facing imminent annihilation. The crew of the Enterprise must wrestle with the moral implications of violating the Prime Directive or standing by while Data's friend dies.

    T2Q Comments: Another "let's teach Wesley" subplot...yay.

    Extended Prime Directive philosophical discussion...seems a little redundant by this point, but considering how I'll never be rewatching episodes like Justice again, I suppose I can let it slide...I do like the distinction this makes between Trek and other franchises though- as well-meaning as it is, the prime directive to the letter would allow preventable death and catastrophies- Earth Alliance or Stargate Command would go and help those people- now, granted, Picard decides to help, but there's a degree of debate that wouldn't have been present elsewhere.

    I'd like to see a Trek series focusing more of an anti-directive ship, trying to use Starfleet tech to save worlds against non-culturally-spawned threats and such- it's not like we haven't seen quote-unquote higher beings interfering- why not be a counter force to their actions in a karmatic way?

    Memory wipe to cover up directive violation is kind of an unusually dark place for Trek to go. Though I'm curious as to the repercussions here that are unseen, still a Good Episode, though Not Essential.

    Interesting bit of trivia- the little girl here is Nikki Cox.



    Up next: 216: Q Who, 217: Samaritan Snare and 218: Up the Long Ladder.




    Time Travel Log:

    -TOS: All Our Yesterdays (2700 BC, Sarpedion Ice Age; NCC-1701 crew; from 2268)
    -TOS: All Our Yesterdays (Undefined 17th Century-esque Sarpeidon; NCC-1701 crew; from 2268)
    -TOS: The City on the Edge of Forever (1930: NCC-1701 crew; from 2267)
    -TOS: Assignment Earth (1968: NCC-1701; from 2268)
    -TOS: Tommorow is Yesterday (1969: NCC-1701; from 2267)
    -ST4: The Voyage Home (1986: The Bounty crew, formerly of NCC-1701; from 2286)
    -TOS: The Tholian Web (2154 (Mirror Universe): NCC-1764 Defiant; from 2268)
     
  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Will break pattern to give this one it's own update, and to facilitate the remaining episodes to contninue being addressed in blocks of 3.


    216: Q Who:
    -Premise: Refused a position on board the Enterprise by Captain Picard, Q throws the ship into uncharted space where it encounters and is engaged by a vessel of a previously unknown species: the Borg. When the vessel instantly and effortlessly overwhelms the Enterprise, Picard realizes that the Federation may not be as ready for the future as he thought.

    -T2Q Comments: So, here we are- what they've been trying to do on this show for a season and a half; that being introducing a new enemy that could be taken as a serious threat and which couldn't b easily defeated or reasoned with. They failed, twice, with the Ferengi, then were unable to go with the Conspiracy insects, then we got a new setup in The Neutral Zone, but then the subsequent two episodes were altered from their original plan of introducing said enemy, until, now, we have the Borg. Inspired in design (as the insect approahc was too costly) from HR. Giger and Lord Dread from Captain Power (the first of several JMS "inspirations" for Trek), we have cyborgs.

    Tge opening spilled coffee bit is a bit overplayed, though it seems Sonya Gomez was intended to be a recurring comedic character but dropped after just two episodes (I suspect Barclay fills this role down the road).

    We get an elevation of the mystery surrounding Guinan, and the return of Q.

    Q: "Ah, the redoubtable Commander Riker- and Micro-Brain! Growl for me, let me know that you still care." [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    The build up to the "Q snap" is great and the event itself is quite effective- though slightly less so now that I know it's a reused effect from an earlier non-Q episode, still, I'll ignore that episode.

    If she can see the cube out the ten forward window- why does she need to view it on a screen in her office?

    "Mr. Worf?" "Ensign", yes, this will work. I like how the one drone salvages certain components from the dead one- not something we really see again. The slicing beam is also something we don't see much of again. They're trying to attack the source of the tractor beam, but they fire at three different, completely wrong, places before they actually fire at it.

    The music is above average for the series- coincidentally the same composer as The Neutral Zone and Best of Both Worlds.

    "They will be coming." Indeed.

    Interesting that Guinan speculates it may one day be possible for the Federation, after it develops enough, to establish a relationship with the Borg- though this seems contradictory to their future appearances, I can't help but think that, by the end of Voyager, with the potential behind the future weapons and Janeway's experiences, the Federation might be a lot closer to doing so than we would think. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

    Verdict: As if there's any question about it, this one is Definitely Essential and a damn good episode to boot. Let's face it- this sets the ground for The Best of Both Worlds, without which TNG would not have lasted as long as it did or have been as influential. The Borg saved Star Trek (the first of several times, until Voyager ran them into the ground), and it started here.
     
  15. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Excellent Review on "Q Who". =D=

    Personally, I find Q Who to be superior in it's pacing and story to "Best of Both World" in as much as they attempt to cram everything they explained in "Q Who" into the first 25 minutes of "Best Part 1".

    The only problem is...they don't learn anything...are they anymore vigilant for the Borg then for perhaps the Conspiracy bugs or watching the Neutral zone? They obviously haven't prepared much in the way to face them when they arrive in "best of the both worlds"...and there certainly isn't a redress of attitude as trek maintains the very serialized "one episode has next to nothing to do with the next" character.

    I always wished Q showed up in "Best of Both Worlds"...and just laughed at Picard as he's being altered...it would've been darker then the show usually got...but then...Best is darker then the show EVER got.
     
  16. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Yeah, that thought has occured to me too. Starfleet may have already taken the first steps in that regard too. After all, Janeway DID manage to successfully negotiate an alliance with the Borg in Scorpion. She also successfully raided Borg cubes more or less at will from that point on too.
     
  17. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    I think that would have been out of character. Though antagonistic, I never got the feeling Q had malicious intent- he doesn't want Picard to come to harm, but he does want him to lose. In his own way, Q helps Picard by introducing them early to the Borg (however much that help is diminished due to the Trek reset button), which may or may not have been his intention all along.
     
  18. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    oh no...I saw Q as equal part antagonistic and menacing if needs be...the standards of tv and the "mood" of the show prevented it from going further.

    If TNG were made today, Q would've put the humans, including Picard, through hellish torments...only to leave them "nearly" unscathed at the end.

    I can easily see Q laughing at Picard as he became locutus, and then snapping his fingers and returning him to his ready room and his fish in the next instant.

    physical danger and harm mean nothing to Q...DEATH means nothing to Q (as a later episode reveals).

    It is because of practices of the time in television that the Q character became increasingly pedestrian, to the point that the fangs of his role in "Farpoint" replayed in "All Good Things" were completely gone.

    80s-early 90s television made Q what he turns out to be, the subtext to what Q was capable of are visible in the early Q-centered eps, up to and including "Q Who"...Q Who may very well be the total extent to which they were willing to take it in 1988. But that doesn't change the intent there.

    Now of course, later episodes took Q into asinine comedic directions, making him much more the clown...an inside joke for fans of the show...but the omnipotent menace Q could be cannot be overstated.
     
  19. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    See, if he undoes it with a snap like that, i could see being i9n character- because then he has more to brag and gloat about and the right person to do it in front of, he get's to elevate his ego as a superior being and feel proven right. But to just stand there and gloat and leave it like that? I'd think he'd be more dissapointed than anything else.
     
  20. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Hm... I never quite thought of Q as evil. Mischevious, occasionally leaning towards malicious especially in the earlier seasons, but at least by the end of the series, he seems to mainly be interested in testing Jean-Luc Picard, leading to the series finale. During the earlier seasons, when Q was acting like a TOS callous omnipotent villain, maybe, but by the later seasons, he wasn't quite that mean, though I actually thought he was more annoying in the later seasons (since sometimes he turned out to be right).

    And I thought that the final episode of the first season was meant to allude to the Borg? Something about those missing colonies? So in a way, Q shoving them into a first contact with the Borg gave Starfleet at least some warning, when the Borg were already somewhat close. I think the episode mentioned they were only a few years away from the nearest Federation base/planet/etc.? Which is a lot closer than the Delta Quadrant and Voyager's supposedly 70-year journey. So, even if Q hadn't introduced them to the Borg to frighten the Federation, the Borg might've been coming already, assuming I understand the plot accurately. Anyway, with how the Borg could send two cubes in a few decades, then at least Starfleet has some warning.

    Though then there's the Enterprise time-loop thing, but... oh well, best not to discuss that.

    Going back to Q- well, finding out there are other members of the Q Continuum help so that we know Q isn't the only omnipotent person around. But... I think he likes challenges and games more. Sure, being omnipotent, Q could just wipe them from existence easily, but... there's no challenge. Instead, Q sets up a game, with rules, and usually Picard passes. Picard pleads with Q to save them from the Borg, and later on, Picard agrees to die on an operating table due to his artificial heart rather than live as a worthless junior officer.
     
  21. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Let me clarify...I'm not indicating Q is evil...I don't mean he should come off as the arch rival of the show...

    The point I was trying to make was that Q's limits weren't set by the story...they were set by the medium and the market...and like was said, he becomes almost like an annoying buddy by the end of the series because they were hamstrung by where they could take the omnipotent being with only a vague understanding of morality.

    not just the borg incident, there are tons of times throughout the show where I could see Q just showing up to watch as Picard or the crew go through some trial...either smirking in satisfaction as they struggle, or perhaps genuinely pleased with their success.

    Just off the top of my head:

    When Data gets the emotion chip.

    When Picard is tortured by the Cardassians.

    When Wesley gets superpowers with the Traveler.

    When Worf is confronting his faith about Kayless.

    When Data dreams

    on and on...truthfully, Q could easily have been a regular cast member, having a thrown in cameo in every episode to give it a wider scale view. Each time, offering what might seem like biting criticism or menacing oversight, but in the end, leading the crew to a new understanding...even a harsh one.

    Q was fascinated with humanity...and as such why we accept that he takes on the characteristics of human emotions and morality as the show proceeds...but this is not the intended role of "Q"...it's a lucky happen-stance, brought about by one of the oldest rules of television...a villain must either get meaner, or he must get funnier.
     
  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    I refer to that- "The Neutral Zone" was the title.
     
  23. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    May 25, 2000
    As I see it, this was the first episode to clue us in that Q wasn't a menace or villain, but was actually a being who had humanity's (and in particular, Picard's) best interests at heart.

    He was just a **** about it :p

    Penalty points, OTOH, for hinting that Guinan was far more powerful than initially surmised, and largely dropping the ball.
     
  24. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Yeah. We learned basically nothing about Guinan or her people. Fail.

    Guinan would have been a far more effective and interesting character if she'd been used in a Neelix-like capacity.
     
  25. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Well the lessons learned with Guinan were applied to Neelix.

    And let's not forget, Whoopi never joined the cast as a regular. Guinan was a part-time character...Neelix was a regular (and even there, they hacked the Kes "dead weight").

    I think the producers loved the concept of keeping Guinan agonizingly unknowable.

    Personally, I always figured Picard bailed her out of trouble in the academy days and then lost his virginity to a centuries old alien...but no one can say for certain.

    But while there was bemused delight at the concept on the creative side, on the receiving end, people just stopped caring...eventually you have to give the payoff to keeping something underwraps that way..."it's a long story we're not going to tell you tonight"...fine...next week? next season?

    oh.

    never.

    well gee, thanks for nothing.

    Even Generations barely answered diddly squat, other then to give us a vague timeline for Guinan's experience with the Borg.