ST Episode IX Box Office Discussion

Hmmmm, that's interesting. For me, and several of my buddies, we took the news of Palpatine's return as a given, and one that was extensively foreshadowed: the First Order's aping of the Empire's aesthetic and structures, Snoke's obvious similarities to the Emperor in terms of trappings and modes of speech, and the very layout of the throne room in TLJ, with its stagecraft curtains and "great and powerful OZ" ambience, simply screamed hidden puppetmaster.

 

That's what I am hoping for. If that is the case, then it will all work out. Still not sure about the fundamental interplay between the FO and the Sith army.

 

If the rumors about TROS are true then it's even more like ROTS then I expected. You really don't need to watch the first two episodes of the ST to know what is going on. Now you compare that to ROTJ which was obviously written/made to be the culmination of a three part trilogy. And the rumors to me sound like an absolute mess to the point that it could be fun bad.

$8 million for It: Chapter 2 on it's first discount Tuesday. Again great numbers obviously but well below the pass of the first one.

 

Compare TLJ's audience score on RT to its score on IMDB and google. And then go on IMDB and sort the audience reviews by date. See if you notice anything about the recent reviews.

 

Maybe its ok to look beyond that sacred trilogy format for a while. Any big Hollywood event movie these days need to stand on its own and be self contained in my view. We haven`t had a proper trilogy since, LOTR. Neither DC or Marvel does it, not Harry Potter. Please update me if i forgot anything significant. Yeah, the OT works almost perfect within that format, but its not a given anymore that its the type of concept they should follow for the narrative structure.

EDIT: Nolans Batman Trilogy of course comes to mind.

Since i am in Scandinavia during Christmas, i just found out that Disney Nordic has set a 25.12 release date for Frozen 2 for the Nordic countries. Only days after TROS opening. Which is insane to me, i dont get it. They should be able to play up against each other and the Nordic countries contributes very little on the overall WW box office. But still...i think its a strange maneuver by Disney.

 

Well, maybe, I'm not sure. Depends on the story. But are you referring to the ST of SW? It was established as a trilogy so....I guess I'm confused.

 

I've not read the spoilers so this is completely speculation, but I always thought back when ROTS came out that the implication was Palpatine was behind Anakin's nightmares of Padme's death. Gave him the visions then manipulated him with the tale of Plagueis and the promise of a way to save Padme. Now in my head it makes sense that, as well as his Empire back, Palpatine would want revenge (Revenge of the Sith after all). What if Palpatine's been not only influencing Kylo in some way to turn him to the dark side (via Snoke? before Snoke?), but was also behind Luke's vision when he looked into Ben's mind that night? It gave Ben the final push to embrace darkness and made Luke blame himself and go into exile. We already know from the novels and comics that the First Order was born at least partially out of Palpatine's contingency plans (not sure how/where Snoke fits in yet), and this would basically make everything that has happened in the ST his revenge for Luke's victory/Anakin's betrayal.

 

@jedijax Talking about the ST yes. Its just seems that Star Wars is the only one who still «plays» with the format. Of course it depends on story. Might have needed a two part last chapter to wrap all ST related storylines up, as we discussed earlier.

@ChrisLyne All of that makes sense to me as well, and works fine. Now, the influence of Palpatine gets complicated. You know, leaks, spoilers...

Some people can complain all they want if Palps was planned in detail and so to appear and play a significant role in TROS, but if one is to look for response from general audience, non hardcore Star Wars fans etc, i say bringing him back is a masterstroke. It will pay off box office wise. The Emperor is referenced by yes, a generation ( or soon two) of cinemagoers and easily recognizable for younger ticket buyers who have watched endless repeats of the OT and PT movies on cable and streaming. Is that also why we are mostly so in tune with each other about the fact that ROTS works best of of the PT films? I think it is. Because we get a full blooded villain in action. Think it was a wrong move from Lucas to kill off Darth Maul as early too, but i leave that discussion.

 

Bringing back Palpatine out of thin air is not a stroke of genius. Making a ST with a new villain who not only brought a similar if not greater threat then Palpatine would been a stroke of genius.

 

Dunno. They did that with Snoke and then cut off that stroke early. It would have been Palpatine by proxy. Six one, half a dozen the other.

 

Since we are in the box office thread i put my conclusion regarding Palpatine in the great marketing bracket for now. Bringing in a totally new and genuin villain that echos Darth Vader or the Emperor, that is not easy to write and many would easily dismiss them for being copycats of those great villains of our time.

 

It’s a good evidence that these review machines don’t accurately represent the the audience (fan or general). Someone who creates an account to only give a single review of a particular movie long after it’s been in home video is showing their cards (never mind the quality of the review is short and poor because it was obviously done quickly just to get it out) .

Click on the name of users who give higher points and you will notice that (more often than not) they review other movies because they are legitimate user.

 

Btw: The Mandalorian tops Rotten Tomatos Top 40 Most Anticipated New TV Shows. Based on user survey
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/40-top-new-fall-shows-2019/

For TROS, I will let both critics and audience reviews go to hell this time. I just want to experience this one fully on my own terms without any noise from «outside».

 

It also shows how quickly public polls like these can be affected by campaigns. It only takes a few youtubers motivating a relatively small percentage of their viewers to leave a 1 star review to completely invalidate the polls as an indicator of anything representing the general public.

 

Except there was no campaign against TLJ until after the movie came out and divided the fan base. It wasn't like Captain Marvel which obviously had a lot of hate for hate sakes before the movie came out. You could say the same for Ghostbusters 2016. The difference in those cases, CM was meant with good critics/WOM responses while Ghostbusters 16' just sunk in every possible way. TLJ though was anticipated with a lot of excitement. The buzz going in as great. But it honked off a lot of fans which once again was the whole point of the film.

And no @jedijax, I could have brought back the Emperor out of thin air for Episode IX LOL! It really does not take much imagination to it and especially planning. Again coming up with a ST main villain who rivaled Palpatine would taken a lot more skill and expertise.

 

OMG, make it stop. Go back to the TLJ box office thread, open the thread and look for answers, so tired of this crap.

Captain Marvel has a certified audience score of 54%.

 

Saw IT: Chapter 2 past Sunday. It was enjoyable but I think the first one was better. It did not feel like a three hour movie since the pacing was fast. Before the beginning of the movie, I saw the trailer of Doctor Sleep and teaser of Birds of Prey - Ewan McGregor stars in both. Birds of Prey is going to be released next February. I wonder if this one is gonna cut off TROS legs along with few others!

 

Not much @qui-gon-chan because by then TROS would be just be playing out the string by that point. The Revenant came out in early January 2016 and really did not much effect on TFA. If anything Bad Boys for Life might have a bigger impact on TROS since it comes out mid-January 2020 though I doubt that will happen really either.

Bird of Prey might be the first "must see" movie for me at the theater next year. Then again next year really is kinda a light year for me personally at the theater. No Time to Die and Top Gun 2: Maverick at the only movies I will make sure I will go see at the theater next year at least as of right now. Now that doesn't include the kids movies like Trolls: World Tour (gags), Minions 2 etc plus movies that could turn into "must sees" for me. For example Ghostbusters 3 is not a must see for me but could turn that way if the trailers/buzz etc are really good.

 

But there was a campaign. Which was my entire point. Campaigns for polls that otherwise would not have campaigns gives results that are not representative of the larger population that it seeks to represent. There are a million examples of public polls that have been hijacked by focused campaigning efforts. Again, compare the RT score to the google score and the IMDB score, then try to convince yourself that RT wasn't part of a targeted negative review campaign.

 

Seems like at least in Malaysia, other than IT Chapter 2, Rambo: Last Blood, and perhaps Angry Birds 2 (watched last weekend, it was a laugh fest from start to end - better than the first too, I must add! ) there doesn’t seem to be that many “big” blockbusters released in September... But next month is when things get exciting, with stuff like The Joker, Maleficent, The Addams Family remake, and Zombieland Double Tap come up...

Leading to a more crazy November (with Frozen 2 and Terminator Dark Fate as two of the must-watch films) as well as TROS’ eventual opening the following month!

 

Ah, thanks. Sweet, well, there you go people. TLJ topped AotC & RotS, and by a margin that's not exactly nothing.

As for the "bringing Palpatine back randomly" stuff, people are gonna see what they want to. The pieces of the puzzle setting him up are there, but people are going to ignore that if they want to pull the "no planning, they pulled it all out of their butts!" narrative. Not much you can do to change that mindset.

 

For worldwide, dollar exchange rates vary over time and from country to country, and rate of inflation varies from country to country. So it's not really that comparable.

 

Actually they aren't which is the problem. All that is really important to know is that his return was revealed in a teaser as opposed to a movie. They had every chance to set-up and reveal a return in said movies but chose not to. If they had then instead of a year+ of "Who's going to be the villain since it's obviously not Ren?"

They could have completely changed it by showing us narrative connectivity in the movies. If TFA ends with an oblivious to her arrival coward, quitter Luke in outlander gear saying "Go away!" to Rey instead of the majestic Jedi robed Luke silently waiting for her then the transition to TLJ works instead of hastily walking away, changing clothes and then replaying the scene in the new iteration of the story.

If at the end of TLJ instead of cutting to broom boy and having a happy, hopeful feeling (as well as a very end of story and saga feel) they had cut to a Sidious reveal like at the end of AOTC then that completely changes the conversation.

In a parallel to the end of the above version of TFA with Rey finding an out of it Luke TLJ could have ended with Kylo Ren going back to Snoke's palace (wherever that is) thinking he's in charge now. When he gets there he surprised to see a cloaked figure in the throne room. The figure turns around and Darth Sidious is revealed. They could have even had it be Vader's castle on Mustafar because Ren goes back to the helmet.

With those two simple changes to the end scenes they can actually say "See this is all part of the plan." and it's a really strong argument because the end of one leads to the other. As it is the endings have no relation to the next movies. Instead they reveals are done by the next directors in the teaser trailer before their own movies to reset the story.

 

@Qui-Riv-Brid you have some good points. Each movie ended in a way to set up another movie but the next movie COMPLETELY veers in a different direction, rendering the end of the previous movie pointless. I agree that if they ended one movie in a way that introduces a conflict in the next, it would have seemed more fluid. And I also agree that may be one of the BIGGEST issues with this trilogy and how poorly it has seemed to gel.

 

Having no time pass between TFA and TLJ kind of makes the two movies become one. The OT and PT the passage of time shows each character older, wiser, more darker, advanced skills, different overall circumstances. TROS is the only movie in this trilogy where some time passes. Because the time is so close between films the characters don’t advance as far as the PT and OT did with time jumps between films.