ST Episode IX Box Office Discussion

I think they have just as much of an ability to become classics. It's easy to think the older films had more staying power, when you look at what's still remembered, but forget all the old films that aren't remembered. I think there'll be just as many 'new' movies remembered, if not more (because of the amount produced).

 

I'm not saying no new movies ever will be remembered and become classics themselves. They just have yet to prove it but I'm certain it will happen for some. Just as a lot will be forgotten. If not the majority of the old movies were forgotten, it wouldn't even be in any way special for the ones who managed to show staying power.

I just wanted to give the old movies a little boost because looking at pure box office now it may seem the movies of today are far more popular.

I would find it funny, though, if in 20 years or so someone brought up Jurassic World and while it was remembered, it would still be so as the sequel of the now even older Jurassic Park.

 

Movies today making kore money is more of a comment on the expansion of the mark and ticket prices than popularity. I don't think there has been a decline in the staying power of films because I don't think there has been a decline in quality.

 

We don't disagree on anything here. In terms of staying power of modern movies only time will tell which ones make the cut. There are some that I love and believe will have it but I wouldn't bet on any as a sure thing. With old movies it's easy, time already told us.

 

You touch on a interesting note. I’m sure there will be many a modern film hailed as a ‘classic’ in years to come... but oh how we’ve lowered the standard of what is considered ‘classic’. I’m sure in years to come Taylor Swift will be this generations Aretha Franklin, Janis Joplin, Debbie Harry, or Madonna even etc. But ultimately we know the bar has been lowered considerably.

 

I really don't think so. Name something that's gaining/recently gained 'classic' status that's evidence for a lowering of standards?

Is Taylor Swift really your go-to artist for this generation?

 

If all Lucas wanted was for the PT to simply be successful financially then he would have craft them very differently. He simply wasn't interested in doing that because Anakin wasn't going to be Luke again. Frodo, Harry, Parker etc all used the form in film that connected to Luke which was part of their DNA anyway.

If Lucas had done the same to Anakin for two movies then had him become Darth Vader out of nowhere that would have been more accessible and palatable but not nearly as interesting to him. He wanted success but on his terms. The quick and easy path to just making money is what a corporation like Disney does because that is their sole (and soulless) purpose.

In domestic box office terms the most successful Harry Potter basically ties ROTS (DH2), AOTC is equivalent to the third most successful (HBP). LOTR's most successful (ROTK) is also at ROTS levels. Spider-Man is along the same lines. That the PT is domestically equivalent to those other competing franchises when the OT had no competition at all is about changing circumstances as much as anything else.

TROS could hit Lion King 2019 levels which are staggeringly successful but even finishing at something around 550 million domestic and 11th all-time domestic isn't going to look as good.

 

Oh I will put dollar to donuts @Josh Jones that Taylor Swift and current pop stars DO NOT become future generations "Aretha Franklin, Janis Joplin, Debbie Harry, or Madonna even etc". It's a topic for a different thread and even board though LOL!

So It: Chapter 2 wins the box office for the second weekend in a row. $40 million which would be a 55% drop which isn't horrible at all but again this is going nowhere near the first one. I talk to a buddy of my mine who saw it and said it was good but it not nearly as good as the first one. I haven't seen it but my guess is (and this might sound odd) is that this time they are adults. There was something unique and cool about watching kids fight a demon. It was like "The Goonies" meets a horror flick while this is more of (I am assuming) a standard horror flick that is well done but just lost it's uniqueness. Still though it's making HUGE money for a horror movie. Meanwhile Hustle exceeded expectations though I am not sure how long term well it will do. CinemaScore was only a B- (which isn't really any good at all) and WOM at least from my read is mixed though that could change. Going to help both films not a lot is coming up right now. Ad Astra looks good but so far isn't picking up much of an audience (definitely not going anywhere near doing Gravity or The Martian type business, not even close!) and Downtown Abbey has a very niche audience since really the only people will go see that are fans of the TV show. So both should continue pretty solid holds for awhile.

And now since we apparently have a TROS final trailer run time we should be coming close to the trailer dropping (my guess is October 14th during MNF) so in about a month or so we should start seeing our first long term projections for it. Curious to see what they will be. Right now not much is tracking well except Joker. That could break $100 OW which would be absolutely remarkable since it's really more of a expensive art film drama then a comic book film.

 

Besides, between the release of the PT and the ST now, the foreign market has grown considerably. A lot has been made of the China failure in particular and yes, the OT was never released there because back then China were a long ways from its cultural revolution. So there is a small fanclub there who watched it on secret bootleg copies. Pre-TFA the president of said fan club was interviewed a bit.

Then the PT got released in theaters but the market was basically a tenth of what it is now, it exploded in the coming years. From what I read, for the limited exposure and compared to movies relased during that timeframe (bar Avatar which was a phenomenon in China as well), the PT didn`t do horribly. And the reception from its limited audience was fine. It had the checkpoints, pretty people, exciting stunt choreography etc. All things that the ST got dinged for not having by modern Chinese audiences.

Franchises like Harry Potter were huge in Europe but eh in the Asian market. LOTR wasn`t super-big in the US but again huge in Europe. Germany is a SW market and the hype for TPM and TFA was very real here. TPM having probably a bit of an edge in buzz and everything but TFA was not that far behind. But Lord of the Rings? It crushed it here in Germany. I remember my best`s friends father taking us to the movie theater for all three movies. He never went with us to a single movie ever beyond those.

 

I want a clever writer to come in and produce a Potter / LOTR type of book series that some even more clever dude will adapt to movie screenplays for new Star Wars film. Fandom will likely miss out on the fun of discussing spoilers etc, but If it can secure a much more coherent unity of a new trilogy/ story, i am all for it.

Regarding discussion about classics: Honest question to Star Wars fans: How many of of the Star Wars film do you consider as classics? I don`t need the names, just the number.

 

The OT are the only "classics" among Star Wars films. Now other Star Wars films are "well liked" (ROTS, Rogue One and TFA come to mind) but the only classics are the OT. Those are the only movies that people really remember outside of the fanbase. They are really apart of pop culture. The others are really not and in some cases are apart of pop culture but for not good reasons (See Jar Jar Binks for details).

 

Three.

 

Star Wars and ESB imo. They have "bigger" and monumental presence in culture and minds of people.
p.s. I love RotJ more than ESB.

 

I consider only ANH and ESB as classics. ROTJ si good but not really a classic.

 

Curious

 

Yeah, it`s a real mystery box.

 

A lot of in-continuity series go downhill in quality after the first entry or two, all the best ideas got used up. Alien...Terminator...Star Wars...though ROTJ is better than Alien 3 and Terminator 3 for sure. Jurassic Park peaked with the first movie, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc. Gone to the well too many times.

 

I couldn't disagree more with this. Hollywood has had two golden eras - the 40s and the 70s. They're considered the great decades for Hollywood because the quality of the films being produced was higher than in preceding and subsequent decades. There have been great periods in painting, sculpting, writing, music, and there are periods where those art forms are not so vibrant. Cinema (Hollywood cinema) in recent decades has become increasingly formulaic, dumbed down and reliant on interminable dialogue-free action sequences (partly to appeal to foreign audiences, whose box office receipts are now required to make a decent profit), and the subject matter dealt with is increasingly puerile in nature (comic book movies, remakes, reboots) to appeal to recent generations of adults who prefer endless nostalgia to the frank engagement with the real world offered by, say, the cinema of the 70s.

Star Wars was both the product of one of these great periods of cinematic art, and the herald of its doom. The merchandising opportunities it demonstrated, the possibility of mountains of sequels, and the acquiring of legions of fans who will turn out no matter what has gradually eaten Hollywood. Disney is feasting on what remains of the cadaver.

 

The talent when it comes to writing in Hollywood is in TV, not film. And I say that as a person who has loved the comic book film boom of the 21st century. But there are way more better TV's shows then there are movies now. There is no disputing that.

 

Two and a half

 

How many of the Star Wars films are classic? 5 for sure. Maybe 6. Some of that has to do with technical break throughs in the films and what they meant to pop culture.

If we're looking at just the movies in regard to story, probably 3.

Revenge of the Sith isn't but probably will be a classic one day.

 

There are two classics. ANH and ESB. None of the prequels are remotely close to being classics and while none of the Disney era movies will likely end up as classics, they haven't had enough time to establish themselves as classics even if it is in their future.

 

I’d push that question back to you, but as a pertinent example I’d start with The Force Awakens. Re. Taylor Swift. She’s currently one of the US’s biggest selling ‘artists’, but please feel free to pick any one of them aa a suitable example of mediocrity.

 

If TROS does TLK's ww total then this is Disney :

 

Firstly I'm not sure why you have chosen to specifically upon 'Hollywood' (by which it appears you're focusing upon blockbusters). I don't want to sound pretentious but cinema is bigger than just American cinema. But even if we do focus upon American cinema I think the films from each decade considered 'classics' have maintained the same quality. There are more films produced today, and while the proportion of them considered classics has obviously declined, I think there are just as many classics being produced. The films by the Cohen Brothers, Villeneuve, Nolan, Fincher, Tarantino, Pixar, etc, are as high a quality as films of any era.

You're the one who made the claim. Obviously I can't answer it. And, no, I don't think TFA is considered a 'classic'. Something like Mad Max: Fury Road will be I suspect.

I don't think Donald Glover, Adele or Beyoncé are examples of 'mediocrity'.