ST Episode IX Story Discussion

So, the ship Rey is watching fly off planet in TFA is not the ship her parents were on?

Kylo says they are dead in unmarked graves in the Jakku desert, that they sold her for drinking money not money to get off planet. If that's true then her memory is supremely faulty, or the lightsaber vision was flat-out lying to her. Or Kylo was lying.

 

The galactic liquor store they were headed to was on the next planet over. After getting their booze they got drunk and crashed on Jakku.

 

That was a vision/memory of them leaving her. Doesn't mean they never returned to Jakku, just that they never returned to her .

 

Her parents were on the ship. In my opinion, Rey's belief has to be the truth, since she is good. Kylo's version can be half-truths, since he is bad. But if the goal is to get her parents back on Jakku dead in unmarked graves, and you are legitimately interested -
Just as we see in the real world, poor people who strike it rich, eventually wind-up poor again. Rey's parents left Jakku and started a new life. But eventually they blew their money, and were forced to return to a slum of Jakku. (Remember, Jakku is a planet, not a city.) Less than a decade after leaving, they were right back where they started. They couldn't get Rey back even if they wanted to. She was now property of Unkar Plutt. But since they never truly cared about Rey, they didn't even try. Not long after their return, their reckless lifestyle caught up with them and they wound-up dead. And were buried in unmarked graves in the Jakku desert.
Obviously I didn't take things that far. I didn't want to bog my post down with even more backstory elements and secondary details.

In regards to the money, I don't think it has to be one or the other. I think it can be both. I think they point is that her parents were deadbeats who spent money in selfish and unscrupulous ways - Drinking, gambling, bail money to get out of jail, abandoning their daughter, ect.

If those are your biggest problems with my idea, I'll take it. To me the thing that people would have the biggest problem with, would be Rey being a clone of Luke & Leia's combined DNA.

 

I realize the whole "dirty parents who don't care for their kids" is something we see in the news everyday, it's not something most of us can relate to. It's a sad story and no matter how things turn out for Rey, it will remain a sad story if that remains true 100%.

DJ actually fits the description of the junker parents and is the right age. Maybe only ONE of her parents didn't care but the other did.

And what's the deal with Kylo since he already killed his demonic master? What is making him still twisted and demented? Snoke still poisoning his mind? Snoke possibly WANTING to have been "killed" by Kylo?

 

I agree with you that the original concept is not the best idea, but in trying to make sense of the overall story it could work if done right. I would however make a few changes to what you have here:

• Have her not only have Luke a Leia DNA, but also Vader and Palatine. This can lead to her feeling more conflicted about the idea of accepting it. It also ties into Kylo looking up to Vader so much, as now Rey would be part Vader. You could also make it even more direct, you could say Palatine was secretly cloning Vader on Jakku as a replacement for Darth Vader since he was so damaged, however cloning someone with force powers proved difficult.
• Have the clone created by Snoke, this ties him back into the story(either by working with Palpatine or on his own). Maybe Lor San Tekka found out about the fact , and was watching over her this whole time. He found a couple to adopt her so she could live a modest life, but they turned out to be bad parents.

I don't think that's where the story is headed, but I would honestly be more interested in something like that than what we will probably get.

 

Happy to see you are open to the idea! For me, as I mentioned, I'm not crazy about the cloning idea. BUT, in this particular situation, I don't have a problem with it. However, I think the access to DNA should be limited to things we've actually seen or been disclosed on screen. Luke's hand was clearly on screen. Ben's birth was NOT shown on screen. BUT, but LST's comments at the beginning of TFA shows that he had been close to Leia for quite some time. He also had the map to Luke, which implies a relationship there as well. It's not a stretch to suggest that LST became a "friend of the family" between ROTJ and TFA, and it's plausible that he was present when Ben was born. I think keeping things as close to "movie canon" as possible keeps things from getting too retcon, and diminishes the need for an even more complicated backstory.

That's just my opinion, and I'm very appreciative of yours!

 

This is another example of how TLJ failed. Kylo's lack of backstory and motivation. Here's what *I* think his motivation is - He's never been good enough.

In Kylo/Ben's mind - He comes from a dysfunctional home. Mom & Dad clearly had problems. The problems started when he showed up. Dad was a smuggler at heart and was never really the dad type. Ben knew his Dad would up and leave some day. Which he finally did. Mom was in love with the Rebellion and the Resistance. Work always came first. She was an absent mom. And as soon as she had the chance she shipped him off to Uncle Luke. Who wound-up nearly killing him. Snoke did nothing but demean and insult him. Hux is always trying to one-up him and stab him in the back. And every time he asks Rey to join him, she turns him down. Poor kid. No wonder he's angry all the time. Kylo wants to prove to everyone how powerful he is. Maybe then he will get the love, respect, and acceptance he deserves.

But that's just my opinion.

 

I just got a really crazy idea & I'm wondering if maybe...just maybe episode 9 is SUPPOSED to play like episode 8.

For example, many fans want it to be SW, but they don't want the ending to be the same as ROTJ. So...what if 9 goes back & tells the story of Luke & Ben & how Ben was corrupted by Snoke. And it tells the backstory of Snoke, & how he deceived Ben, etc. This could include more LIVING Luke screen time, maybe even a Luke Snoke encounter, as well as Force Ghost dialogue as they try to guide Luke and even make a vain attempt to stop KR from going down his dark path to no avail.

The ending of the last episode then is simply a montage of battles scenes (silent except for the score kind of like many of the scenes in ROTS during order 66 where you get more emotion than dialogue) but instead of depressing scenes you see various people around the galaxy rising up to stand against the FO & rather than have a final...it's over it's more of a "feeling" that the galaxy will fight on wherever there is oppression heroes will rise and freedom will always eventually win the day.

Maybe a final scene could be Rey standing victorious over KR w/ force ghosts looking on and it's alluded to the FO falling and that's how it ends. Kind of a reverse trilogy between 8 & 9 so we get answers but the ending is very different from the OT for sake of making something good but original?

Probably never happen, but I think if done right could be a satisfying conclusion.

Would also make sense why RJ seemed to give us episode 9 instead of 8 & JJ will do vice versa w/ the exception of the final montage of emotional action sequences as the galaxy rises above oppression.

 

You forgot : Duty free

 

Story wise I think they need to move away from the traditional rebels vs empire set up. The FO defeated the resistance in my opinion in the last jedi. Now what we are left with is a splinter cell group hoping to damage the first order with guerrilla style attacks and stoke a sort of revolution from within the FO.

They need to introduce a force user from any previous canon source who was able to survive vader's and palpatines scourge on GFFA. My suggestion would be Ahsoka Tano returning to train Rey in ways luke could not. Ahsoka tano would offer that attachment to earlier trilogies we missed as she fought vader, was Anakin's padawan, had a connection to obi-wan Kenobi and yoda. It would also stop the "mary sue" camp as it gives Rey a believable source for her training and opens up the possibility that we might see a PT style light saber duel.

I think a compelling story line for episode IX would be the KOR seeking and killing any new force users that arise, while ahsoka and rey try to recruit them.

my reasons for this is because there is no way at all that Rey would be able to defeat the KOR and Kylo Ren alone. and entire movie of Rey fighting guys 1v1 with a days rest in between each fight seems unrealistic and boring.

 

I'm thinking Ep. 9 is going to start on Ach-To and open on a shot of Lukes cloak floating in the wind peacefully and then it'll land on the head of one of the caretakers and they'll fall over.

 

I've posted this elsewhere but it seems very significant for this thread, from what I've found out the basis for IX is inspired by Logan's Run.

 

What. How in the Force would Logan's Run have anything to do with Star Wars?

 

One of the biggest questions I have is, what is the First Order like under Kylo Ren.

Over the course of the last 2 films he's gone from passionate, undisciplined apprentice barely tolerated by his underlings to tragic figure who finds himself in power after a sudden coup. What he does with that power and status will be very interesting to see. Will he be like those old Spanish kings who ran the Empire into the ground with too much spending and badly fought wars? Will he grow into it and find a measure of maturity? Does he even want the power he found himself with? Will he try to be like Snoke or Vader (who also never had this kind of power) or will he finally learn to go his own way as was hinted at in TLJ? It'll also be interesting to see what impact Luke's martyrdom had on Kylo. I feel that Luke was still trying to reach him, even in those last moments, and I think we could see more of that in IX. I don't think much would change if the greater FO found out that Kylo killed Snoke. I don't think Hux believes him, but he's rolling with it because he has to.

The Rebellion has even bigger problems. I imagine Luke's martyrdom did what Leia could not do and help galvanize some allies. But we still have a core military force that's been reduced to about 20 people. Even with help from a few systems, they're in no shape to take back the Galaxy. Figuring out how to tastefully retire Leia will be tricky. Dying off screen is too little and giving her an extended death in battle might feel too exploitative. I imagine Holdo would return and take on some of Leia's plot responsibilities, it'll feel bittersweet (particularly for those who didn't like Holdo) but it'll fit with the sense of loss and transition that was at the heart of TLJ.

Finn has some possibilities. I think he's figured out how to commit to the rebellion as an actual cause now. If so, he might take on some sort of leadership role. Given his inside knowledge, I can see him running spy missions and working with Maz to gather intelligence.

Ray has maybe the most question marks. She has the Jedi Texts, which honestly puts her in a better position to call herself a Jedi than Luke did in ROTJ. The question will be, does she want to? In TLJ her mission wasn't to train as a Jedi, but to get Luke to come back. She only asked for training when she realized Luke had no interest in coming back. Her faith in Luke, and possibly the Jedi Order, was ultimately redeemed, but only after she left to do her own thing. I think she took the Jedi texts for a reason, but who knows how useful they'll ultimately be. They are the *1st* Jedi Texts, not the *complete* or *revised* Jedi Texts. I think the ideal thing would be to see her find help to pick and chose the best parts of the Jedi philosophy and mix it with new lessons informed by the Jedi's failures, a sort of Reformed Jedi Order, that truly seeks balance and nuance above all else.

or it could ultimately be much more condensed than all that. JJ's style is usually to figure out the shiniest MacGuffin possible and barrel through the story as fast as possible. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but they don't always have room for breath or nuance.

 

Yea, I'm also curious how Logan's Run could be an inspiration. Is it the dystopian and utopian themes? The theme of inexperienced youth being in charge, especially w/the FO?

 

Kylo's true motivations really need to be fleshed out in 9. Or else he's simply a moustache-twirling bad guy - which just plain sucks.

Poor upbringing can only account for so much. After a certain age, a man is motivated by his future (what he wants), not his past (his pain).

The "Logan's Run" connection? The FO needs a tangible shatter-point. The Empire's was having Sideous and Vader in the same location. A place where they'd be exposed to conflict on two fronts: internal and external. Arguably, that was Rey's missed opportunity aboard the Supremacy. The Guard had Kylo locked up pretty tight. Exploring the ideals of "Logan's Run" may provide some type of uncomplicated "checkmate" for the FO?

 

Having a plan and outline helps keep things in perspective.

For example, the Canto Bight thing seemed pointless on the surface. However, we discovered something new. The weapons sales centers around Canto Bight. Thus, by going on one mission that ended up being unneeded, Finn and Rose could have stumbled upon something bigger that can be of some MAJOR importance to the rebellion in IX. Cut off the weapons sales and you paralyze the First Order. That's a cool plot device. You end up uncovering something else while on a defeated mission.

 

Star Wars IX

THE REBIRTH OF HOPE

It is a time of renewal for the galaxy.

Years ago the spark of RESISTANCE set ablaze
by LUKE SKYWALKER'S legendary actions, have helped to turn the tide.

While THE FIRST ORDER struggles to extinguish this fire,
there is also one raging within it's own ranks between ADMIRAL HUX
and SUPREME LEADER KYLO REN.

With hope restoring in many star systems, LEIA ORGANA is rallying more allies,
as ADMIRAL POE DAMERON and GENERAL FINN prepare for a war to end all wars

Meanwhile as REY's training in the FORCE is nearing completion,
she discovers an ANCIENT PROPHECY of DARKNESS & LIGHT...​

Rough outline for the story
====================================================================================
Opening scene has HUX vs FINN, leading their respective forces into battle. SUPREME LEADER REN is also present. During this battle HUX loses, and FINN's forces escapes. This leads to even more tension between REN and HUX. It is only a matter of time before they clash one final time.

After this REN goes into meditation and is tormented by SNOKE who is revealed to still be alive in spirit and heavily influencing him. It was growing harder to resist, and eventually REN will be taken over completely, and SNOKE will rule again. This has led to lapses in judgement in REN's judgement which has threatened his control over the FIRST ORDER. HUX has ambitions to take over leadership and a plan to do so by exploiting this increasingly noticeable weakness.

Seeking relief from his torment and pain REN has for years reached out to REY to reconnect, but has been shutout with only brief connections. During which fleeting moments he's found an elusive peace (similar to SAUL and DAVID in the bible where SAUL is tormented by a demon, but finds relief when David plays music). In vain thus far he has failed to convince her that their destiny is together. He reasons that their union is the only way for their to be true balance of the force and peace in the galaxy where they can rule together. He is obsessed with tracking her down.

REY has returned to the island and is training with the aide of MAZ KANATA who helps her to understand the ANCIENT JEDI TEXTS (JOURNAL OF THE WHILLS) whose language MAZ is familiar with (e.g. being ancient herself, and also able to fill in history, etc). She believes the answer to ending galactic conflict is contained there. She knows the JEDI order was flawed and seeks a balance where no one has ownership of the force, and that it's will is simply to be obeyed in fellowship. This has by and large been self-study and a time of preparation for REY. During this time, despite resisting REN's communications, she realises that it's only a matter of time before REN finds her.

One day she hears something calling out to her - an ancient relic of the past. LUKE appears to REY with YODA and others to complete her training after she stumbles upon an ancient relic and learns the full truth. This relic turns out to be one which LUKE originally discovered during his own period of self-study that led him to SNOKE. He had no idea of the proverbial geni he had let out of the bottle. SNOKE at first was thought to be an original Jedi whose destiny was to aide the Jedi in it's final days. This turned out to be a false prophecy which led to KYLO's turn to the darkside, which LUKE discovered too late. SNOKE was neither JEDI nor SITH, but of an ancient group that preceded it prior to it's split (the subject of an ancient prequel trilogy). LUKE admits KYLO still has good in him, but that he's too far down the path to save. Meanwhile it all comes together for REY and she feels she has discovered the true meaning to the prophecy of the CHOSEN ONE to bring balance. She believes that KYLO must be saved in order for it to be fulfilled. The CHOSEN ONE was never a single individual, but a UNION of love keeping it all together. She leaves the island in Luke's old X-Wing to meet KYLO. "Maybe KYLO was right." She "has to try". She also has feelings for him.

She and KYLO meet, at which point HUX has managed to gain the loyalty of all of the FORMER KNIGHTS OF REN to whom he accuses KYLO of switching sides over sentiment and personal feelings ("a Skywalker weakness"). HUX now has force wielders to do his bidding to outnumber and destroy REN. This leads to a series of battles in which REY and KYLO are hunted, but eventually defeat them all (albiet with more drama and struggle than their previous united battle against the Snoke's guards in TLJ). During this time REY and KYLO grow romantically attached. KYLO is increasingly losing his mind, and REY's presence slows this process down, providing him relief from his pain. There are moments when he works with and against her (even trying to kill her, etc - similiar to Saul in his own madness). All the while she continues loves him and wants to save him, no matter what. Eventually she realises that nothing can stop this, and that she has failed. In the end KYLO sacrifices himself to save REY and to prevent SNOKE from taking over. This is his last loving gesture to her.

In the epilogue the battle is won (during which LEIA is lost heroically), and REY mourns KYLO's loss and fears for the future. She then falls sick and MAZ KANATA tends to her, where it is revealed that she is pregnant with the NEXT SKYWALKER TWINS. These TWINS hold the key to the balance of the force. These two are destined to raise a new generation of force sensitives who will not repeat the mistakes of the past and continue balance the darkness and light.

Other notes
-------------------------------------------------
Snoke physically died in Episode 9 after years of inhabiting various hosts and extending his lifespan by exploring all means to achieve immorality. Kylo killing Snoke was by design - his own - for the express purpose of: 1) being released from his aging body/host; 2) opening Kylo fully to the darkside where now he can take full spiritual possesion of him as his new host. This is a process that has taken years now manifesting itself in this film (the gradual process of taking over his thoughts, words and actions, etc). Snoke's revenge, etc.

Leia will be alive and working behind the scenes to rally more forces for the final battle. She'll be mostly offscreen, but in the end she will appear with a fleet of ships to turn the tide of the final battle. During this battle she will die. She's in the background.

Beyond the sequel trilogy
=====================================================
The Skywalker line continues through Ben/Rey's twin offspring who lead a new Jedi order which has achieved a balance with this Brother-Sister (family) headship. This was the plan all along, and all the setbacks in the previous films due to human error delayed this. The new movies beyond the sequels still have human error causing additional setbacks for future waves of force sensitive beings (e.g. Broom Boy from TLJ, etc). New enemies to oppose the restored republic emerge completely unrelated to the empire, etc. Snoke may or others like him may again be reawakened to cause trouble, etc. This would allow the franchise to continue for a long time until it becomes too wore out and boring to tell. Struggles could include Broom Boy going bad and turning against Rey's twin children after her own passing, etc.

 

From what I understand, and at this time it's vague, it could be a search for a utopian paradise that doesn't exist. The utopian paradise may refer to an idea or may be a solution, whatever it refers to it doesn't exist and they have to forge a new world themselves.

 

Because they're killing off all the old characters?

 

@The Regular Mustache

 

Okay let me take a crack at this. It'll open in space...and...um...no clue.

Seriously though we know it'll open in space. Do you all think it'll be a space battle or will it just be some ships flying in space, perhaps one landing on a planet?

 

It would be cool to see it opening to a black cup of coffee from which the camera zooms out from to reveal Dex's Dinner from Episode II with Chewbacca ordering roasted Porg without fear of a guilt-tripping audience.

 

Ha. You might be joking but something like that could be cool. Maybe not a cup of coffee but they make some other object look like space only to reveal that it's a close up of Kylo Ren's uniform or something like that.

As Spaceball-ish as it was I liked the clothing iron gag in TLJ.