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Lit Fate of the Jedi issues...

Discussion in 'Literature' started by OutsiderJediSam, May 29, 2018.

  1. mnjedi

    mnjedi Jedi Master star 3

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    Nov 4, 2012
    I remember really liking both the Kessel and Luke/Ben with the Kel Dor portions of the book, I really dig that kind of exploration of strange places and new force sects. It's a shame that the Coruscant stuff weighs down everything else so badly because I would have been down for the entire series being just that sort of thing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
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  2. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    True-I do wonder what would happened in that event-republic civil war? Or something else
     
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  3. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 5, 2017
    Honestly, the jedi actually recusing themselves from temporal matters for a good half century would probably be a good idea.
     
  4. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Well as I understand it in legends the republic asked for their help and support in its early years.

    After all the republic sided with the Jedi and stiffed Xendor when he tried to tell them the Jedi were duplicitous.

    I think convincing the Jedi to not involve themselves in temporal affairs would be a rather hard sell for a lot of the order's members. But the NJO under Luke I don't think was really capable of divesting itself from temporal affairs-as Luke had been involved in such affairs his whole career.

    If Jacen hadn't fallen to the dark side-I could see him and perhaps those drifting into his orbit leading a movement to focus more on the spiritual and philosophical aspects of the force and academic study as well.

    In Legacy we see this too-the GA apparently fully supports the Jedi's defense of the Vong against many of its own worlds who are angry at the Vong over the Ossus Debacle.

    A cynical IU observer might say the Jedi control or at least exercise substantial influence on the government-which would mean an order of monastic warrior monks influences a secular state.

    Maybe the government should just train force users in a secular fashion?
     
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  5. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    I think @comradepitrovsky is making a general statement, not actually advocating for the plausibility of the Jedi's involvment/non involvement in any exact story in the EU.....u'd have to ask him why, but I suspect it's b/c
    1) when the Jedi involve themselves they then don't want the burden of responsibility for any fall out
    2) the Jedi often go back and forth on involvement and it creates more chaos....
     
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  6. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Dark Times.

    As to recusal, the Jedi did that for nine centuries while a cult seized the Republic that worshipped Abeloth and committed mass genocide on aliens in a mass Inquisition. Then the Jedi struck back with the sane members of the galaxy and took control of the Republic... only to have a wave of schisms and internal Jedi conflict on the public stage. So... that pendulum swung hard.

    The Jedi need to disentangle themselves but remain friends with the GA. Aloof from the mundane but cooperative. Joining the military as soldiers, not demanding special rights. Becoming part of the command structure when they should. Keeping some Jedi in the shadows as necessary to keep anyone with the dark side from taking advantage of people.


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  7. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 5, 2017
    No, I'm saying that they should do it right now. Like, the Jedi Order has so far been responsible for a coup, an evil dictator, another coup for an evil dictator, and now their order is going mad. These are symptoms of a greater problem - there's no spiritual core to Luke's Jedi. They don't mean anything. They don't believe in anything. Their doctrine changes at a moment's notice, the vast core of the Order has PTSD, and the current galaxy's most prominent memory of them is as jack-booted thugs running a centralized police state. Take fifteen or fifty years, and think about things for a moment.
     
  8. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Maybe palpatine was right and the Jedi are interested in power and fear losing it most of all.

    @Sinrebirth-your saying that the goddess the pius dea worshipped is Abeloth. That seems like a stretch to me? Is there some source discussing this I am not aware of?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
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  9. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 5, 2017
    It’s made explicit in Cult Encounters.
     
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  10. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I'd have re-read that.
     
  11. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 26, 2013
    They should, I think the Imperial Knights were getting there, but not quite, as they still served the abstract 'Light Side' and they literally assassinated an Emperor out of that belief. Roan Fel did not need to be killed, he could've just been disarmed and his plan thwarted. Its a question of morals in the same vein as Jaime Lannister killing the Mad King... except Roan Fel wasn't nearly as bad as Aerys. Here though, there was clearly an option. Emperor Roan could've been taken in and revealed the truth behind Maladi's poison.

    Also not sure about Abeloth being the Pius Dea Goddess. Isn't it just sorta implied but not confirmed?
     
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  12. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    okay just started Omen, in the prologue Dician, a one Sith, talks about the honorable name of Skywalker in reference to Vader I'm sure but.....do the One Sith have the same views as Palps/Vader??? aren't they Rule of Two??? so why would they honor Vader? or is it like different theologies of same religion where you disagree but are still associates???
     
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  13. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    Imperials Knights were basically just Jedi Knights turned praetorian guards serving the reigning Emperor. They're more direct militant/militarized versions of the Jedi Order that we saw in Clone Wars/Republic. The One Sith was the rule of the many Sith in general as one. But it always kinda went back to the one leader and one trying to overthrow the Sith Emperor to usurp while the reigning Emperor of course will never give up power nor allow the Sith to survive without him. The ancient Sith like Bane believed Krayt's and his One Sith to be heretical destined for failure ect.

    I never really liked the Darth Maul rip-off look of the One Sith, that just went unexplained. They were visually often cool but really dumb at the same time. They should've had it that they were worshipers of Maul and Vader or something. Krayt the Tusken never really did anything for me.
     
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  14. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    The original Goddess had pinpricks for eyes. Rur references this in the original practice in worship of her - to blacken the eyelids and love silver stars upon them.

    The Goddess was apparently summoned by the Drogheda princess and grew her back her teeth.

    So the Vain Goddess is Abeloth.


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  15. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Bleh

    I am ignoring that retcon so hard


    on topic I really like the Lost Tribe. They are a society of Darksiders but not fully evil, they are very much the lesser evil compared to the jedi here. I honestly think Lady Reya is a better master then Yoda.
     
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  16. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Speaking of ASOIAF comparisons-I always felt the roan-Maladi relationship was sort of like the Stannis-Melisandre relationship.

    Anyway the IKs are basically praetorian Jedi guard as said above.
     
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  17. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    The Imperial Knights were more than bodyguards.

    It basically took the post-NJO Jedi who swore to obey the Jedi Grand Master, and said "what if the Jedi Grand Master was also the political leader of the galaxy?"

    Or, as the PT Jedi swore to serve the Jedi Council and the Senate, "what if the authority of the entire Jedi Council and entire Senate was vested in one person named Emperor/Empress?"

    Or, if Mace Windu had succeeded in killing Palpatine and taking over the government, where a new Jedi dictatorship would lead if the Jedi had chosen one of the Council to be the prime leader.


    It's the resolution to the old "should the Jedi serve the Force first, or the government first?" But this time it led to a schism, and the government happened to be the Empire instead of the New Republic/Galactic Alliance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
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  18. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 5, 2017
    But it's the wrong choice. Ignoring the war crimes that the Imperial Knights were complicit to, they utterly failed in their mission. The Jedi should serve the Force, because the energy force present in all life across the universe doesn't care about politics.
     
  19. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    People disagree if Jedi should serve the Force or not, that's the debate I'm referencing.
     
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  20. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    so let me get this straight....
    1) Jysella Horn flips out right in front of a Master...Master Cighal
    2) she then is able to get away from Master Cighal
    3) beats up another Jedi or two
    4) gets a Force premonition on secret security droids to take them out
    5) hides from other Force users
    6) runs out the front door to escape
    so she, just her, all alone, is able to escape from the Jedi Temple and from ALL the other Jedi, who aren't able to stop her??????

    slow clap for the Jedi everybody, slow clap for the Jedi.......they are great at their jobs....wait nvm, they haven't been for a quite a while, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.....
     
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  21. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 26, 2013
    @Darth Invictus @Ghost
    Yeah I've been making that Stannis-Melisandre comparison, I can see it. It should've went on for longer too, but besides that I think going by what Antares Draco did, the Imperial Knights were just as overzealous as the Jedi. The point is a bunch of Force Users organised by the government to act as a Force Using Marine Corps or Secret Service is what has been suggested, I believe, which I think could work as a plot-point.
     
  22. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Flow walking is a thing(?)

    Omen was the point where I briefly turned negative on Legends. But only because he hardcovers kept getting shorter. A chapter was cut and packaged as a Hyperspace exclusion called Imprint, and maybe another was cut out and used as an Insider short story. I was also initially quite negative about the Tribe but the Tribe short stories that came out for free simultaneously were brilliant; and remain so.

    Then Abyss picks up everything and it’s divine.


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  23. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Abyss is what killed my interest in Star Wars, SWTOR got me interested again but, after Abyss I started to turn on post NJO EU, and then Backlash happed :(
     
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  24. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    ToR is brilliant fun, to be fair.

    Still is, even if the Eternal Empire was wrapped up a bit abruptly.


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  25. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    The SpecForce in the Rebellion turned into that, after a fashion.


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