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ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Punching Nazis in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Daisy can decide whether she finds John wanting to have sex with her, or joking about it, to be offensive or not. They’re good friends and they can have that discussion without our “help.” I’m not offended for her or offended by the term itself.

    The racism directed at John, including “keep your black hands off of her” is far, far more offensive. (If that was in response to the lay the pipe comment, it’s both racist and demeaning towards Daisy, like she can’t decide for herself whether John is being offensive and needs us to tell her to be offended).

    And I’ll continue to defend John pushing back against racist garbage any damn way he pleases.
     
  2. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Fine.
    Time to leave, I think.
     
  3. Triad Moons

    Triad Moons Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2020
    For clarification's sake, what would be the appropriate language for addressing the issues regarding Finn as embodied by LucasFilm/Disney's production if "anti-Black/Blackness" (erasure/discrimination of Black characters or persons) is considered too much/harsh or bashing (a term appropriate for the juvenile fan-base antics)? Or is the goal never to address their actions as racism vs. calling it 'honest mistake'?
     
  4. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    I say Finn lost a lot of fans but it applies to just fans of the ST as well I don't ever want to see or read anything about the ST characters again
     
  5. EHT

    EHT ST/Anthology Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    As I said, we can't automatically assume actual racism is the reason for these actions... maybe they were insensitive to how things would be perceived by the audience, etc. So instead of using terms like "anti-Black" as if that status is just a proven or widely accepted fact, it would be better to simply discuss the situation and their actions without ascribing labels to them.
     
  6. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I've never seen an evidence that continuing with characters past the point of logical conclusion (which happened in ST for everyone whether one likes the execution or not) did any good to returning characters. I can only speak of movies cause I never cared about stuff like EU. But what I noticed about movie returns is that they fall in 2 categories:

    nostalgia-enabling cash grab where returning characters are just there, pretty much wasted and basically everyone ending up in an agreement that their return was unnecessary

    over-correcting fan fic where returning character serves as a self-insert with all the trappings of self-insertion (over-powerment, convoluted new background, possible hijacking of the story from other characters if the story isn't explicitly focused on the returning character). Most jarring example of this is Legolas in The Hobbit a trilogy that seems to be a justification for a Legolas fanfic where he finally had a central role, as opposed to just being an action figure hottie by Aragorn's side. Every self-insert cliche was there. Over-powered to the point of defying gravity and being one man army? Check. Convoluted new background including a love triangle with a canon dwarf and a self-insert Elfina? Check. Hijacks the story from the titular Hobbit in an attempt to over-correct for his largely background role in LOTR? Check.

    I have no doubt that return of any ST character or a group of them would have these 2 categories of failed returns as a result. if a film-maker is more invested in a character than you can bank on self-insertion, if a film-maker only needs the character to boost interest in a movie that isn't really about the returning characters (see Jurassic World: Kingdom, Independence Day:Resurrection...or do yourself a favor and don't) than it's nostalgia pandering. So let the past die or otherwise you live long enough to see the character become
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  7. afrojedi

    afrojedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2015
    They didn't want a black Finn initially, that's pretty common knowledge. JJ had to push for that which started this downward spiral...that accelerated after JJ left. We didn't catch executives saying things formerly esteemed Capt Scott Bethmann Ret. USNA Alumini Association Treasurer said in what he thought was a private conversation, but their actions appear to be consistent with them: Separate and minimize.
     
  8. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    Can we please keep Daisy and Rey as separate people?

    Rey is not real! Finn is not real!

    we all know Carrie had a similar edgy rated R sense of humor.
     
  9. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    To be clear, the joke was about Rey and Finn. Not John and Daisy.

    Daisy is not Rey so she has no reason to be offended. And I’m certain she wasn’t.

    sorry for double post
     
    Troopa212 likes this.
  10. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Is there? As a Christian, I understand that there isn't a reason.
    This is something I don't agree with. However crude his comments were, Rey is a fictional character. Finn is as well. I don't think there's necessarily much different about that and some reylo fan fiction.

    If they insulted him in some way for them, that's not right.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Punching Nazis in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Jesus can love racists but I’m not Jesus, so I can hope they are forced to hide underground with their horrific beliefs and are permanently ostracized from decent society.

    Agree with your last paragraph. I find the entire concept of Reylo, canon or not, far more repugnant than any statement about Finn wanting to “lay the pipe” with Rey.
     
  12. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Christianity has been interpreted in many ways by many different people. For example, my personal understanding and interpretation of Christianity doesn't involve expecting anyone to put up with racist comments on social media or any other form of prejudice and discrimination. At any rate, though, Boyega doesn't really have to meet anyone's standard of Christian conduct or belief, and I'm not really sure why that would be an evaluation criteria for him. I'd give him the same freedom of religion and from religion as I'd give everyone else.
     
  13. Troopa212

    Troopa212 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2016
    I can't speak for anyone else but if Finn got a movie or trilogy where he's written and depicted as the awesome character he could have been in the ST I would watch it.
     
  14. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    It’s incredible to me that the one genuinely original character Kasdan created in TFA (a stormtrooper that defects) was set aside in favor of a Twilight-style dark romance between two generally unoriginal characters (Kylo is essentially a version of Anakin, and Rey a version of Luke). The fact that the original character was a POC, and the unoriginal ones were white, inflames that missed opportunity further. IMO, they simply made bad choices throughout this trilogy. In some cases, some of the worst possible choices.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  15. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    That's a fact. But hoping for that isn't right.

    Both Finn and Rey and reylo are fiction.
    There's a difference between putting up with something and forgiving those for those things.
     
  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Punching Nazis in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I don’t care if you think it’s “right” to hope racists find themselves ostracized from society (and unfortunately they are not yet). I’m still going to hope for it. And Jesus can do all the forgiving he wants, but I do not forgive racism, including that leveled at Boyega.
     
  17. Adept

    Adept Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Well...I DO have this script that allows for some interesting visuals and set pieces for a Force user.....I suppose I could convert that to work with Finn's character post TROS...

    In all seriousness, at this point I think LFL would have to do some sweet talking and make some promises they intend to keep to get John Boyega back for anything involving Finn. That said, they're apparently going to be releasing more comics with Rey, Finn & Poe in them...so I'd recommend they ensure not to perpetuate some of the films issues in those comics.
     
  18. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    @dagenspear The people who make racist social media comments should be expected to apologize before they can expect any sort of forgiveness. Also, I don't know why the ethics of Christianity are being debated on a thread about Finn and the actor who plays him. [face_dunno]
     
  19. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    When did they say their releasing new comics?
     
  20. Adept

    Adept Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    A few months back during comic solicitations for the month of Jun, they may have been pushed back to July.
     
  21. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    A lot of things have, with Covid19.
     
  22. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    That doesn't mean someone should treat them badly in kind.
     
  23. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Boyega said it best.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Johnson's passion was with Luke/Rey/Kylo and all the other characters suffered for it. The Finn and Rose and even Poe storyline lacked heart. RJ didn't care about them, IMO, and it showed. I don't think he cared about Luke or Rey either, but they just happened to be in the main plot he was most invested in.

    Everyone should treat everyone well. But shippers are not oppressed people and never have been. Some people like certain ships. Some people loathe them. But shipping is a choice one makes about a fictional story. It's not real. Racism due to one's skin is not something someone can choose to avoid. You can avoid shipping and involving yourself in fandom if it bothers you. One can't do that in real life when it comes to hatred due to their skin tone. To put it simply: you will not be harmed by the police for shipping a fictional relationship.
     
  24. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    I don't think a victim of racism on social media calling out racism on social media is being unkind.
     
  25. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Well, Finn is sure original now as a character whose arc is yelling Reeey, cause otherwise he would be Poor Man's Kyle Katarn or whatever his name, which is what everyone who read EU was hoping he'd be when he lit the lightsaber in TFA trailer. So that wouldn't be original since it was done already in SW.:nttrooper::bluesaber:
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020