ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

I think Boyega goes easy on JJ because JJ might have been trying to set up Finn for a different arc from the beginning (in TFA), but that was derailed by TLJ - after which JJ just couldn’t bring the character back to his original thinking because there wasn’t enough celluloid left. I don’t think it’s because Kathleen Kennedy nixed a version of TROS that gave Finn a much better arc. That’s simply conspiracy theorizing. Not least as TROS really does talk and walk like a JJ film. Personally, I blame RJ for Finn’s sputtering arc, but also JJ. And just a little on KK for going with an unplanned approach - but I sympathize with her, as that was the approach of the OT, and she was determined to let directors shape it with creative freedom.

Where I do think the studio messed up big time, though, is in the marketing. Raising expectations about Finn as force sensitive was a colossally bad idea. And yes, it’s because he is black @vaderito. And that’s 100% legit. Historically, back people haven’t gotten major heroic roles in blockbuster franchise films. So you have to be careful. For fans that are POCs, and allies, there is more than just character fandom at play. There are historical wounds that are at play. And you simply don’t tease addressing one of those wounds in a big film like this, only to pull the rug out. It’s needlessly insensitive and has no value.

In all, I think the mistreatment of Boyega and the other issues with the ST, now makes a clear case that it was a mistake to try for a loosely-planned trilogy. This thing should’ve been plotted out well in advance. And the real world historical context of the new actors and their roles should have been far more thoughtfully considered.

But given how director-driven the ST was, I still think the responsibility for Boyega’s concerns about Finn lie mostly at the feet of its two directors. With an assist from a marketing department that made one big mistake, and a studio that perhaps should have had a bit more foresight about the historical context of this trilogy, and made firmer plans accordingly.

 

Its possible John just had a better relationship with JJ. So it wouldn't be likely to say anything bad about him. I mean are we really saying there was nothing JJ could have done different in TROS?

 

What's also clear in this thread is that some can't handle what Boyega said and his truth and are trying to attach other reasons that they are more comfortable with when in fact he was quite clear.

 

Marketing propped a thankless character created solely for bait and switch. Concept art proves it.

Spoiler

So since the character was written this way, and clearly set up to feature in marketing for that reason, then they shouldn't have cast a PoC for sensitivity reasons. They weren't going to re-write the movie just because of the casting decision. They wanted that moment of surprise when Rey calls the saber to her. That was their money shot. They pulled it off thanks to marketing.

Point being, Finn wasn't written as thankless because he was black but whether they cast black because they knew it was a thankless role is up for debate that no one will ever prove unless someone explicitly said something that was caught on video/audio/email/other. Likewise, unless Rian was caught saying that he put Finn in a side plot because he was PoC and not because he felt that the character had purpose there, it's just an assumption. I'm convinced that John felt that was the reason but I'm not convinced that was the reason.

 

I'd like to see this version of TFA where Finn is nothing more than a bumbling sidekick who's upstaged by everyone and their grandma och has what little substance there was magically knocked out of him when Kylo cuts him down.


On second thought, scratch that. I can do without it.

 

Three years ago you were a racist/sexist for hating TLJ. Now? TLJ is sexist and racist. Nobody else see the irony in all of this.

To me the sequel trilogy overall sucked because the sequel trilogy. Nothing less. Nothing more. Move on.

 

I wonder how Jar Jar would be received if TPM came out today.

 

It occurs to me that one could easily spin that decision as an empowering thing, that they gave him his own adventure to carry and no longer had him chasing around the white girl like a lovestruck puppy.


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I don't think anyone disputes that Rey was always intended to be the main Jedi character and Finn was a bait and switch in that role. What people are saying is 1) that was a terribly insensitive marketing choice once they made their choices in casting. Tricking people into seeing a movie that doesn't deliver what it advertised in a bad idea in general and especially harmful if you're trying to sell those people 2 sequels. 2) Not being the main Jedi doesn't automatically equate to a "thankless character". He has way too much screen time to not deserve actual development, but they chose to do a bunch of nothing with him for reasons that likely stem from the haphazard mess that is the ST's unplanned overall plot. Lando is more of a side character than he is, he's not even in the first half of his trilogy, and he still got a way better arc than Finn did. It's not like there was nothing that could have been done with him after TFA.

 

TLJ is the Rorschach test of modern movies. It’s simultaneously an example of feminist SJW pandering but also racist and sexist.


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You do know that the people who called it racist and sexist were some of the people who were called racist and sexist back then, right?

 

If Finn wasn't all that Boyega wouldn't be disappointed.

Driver played a Skywalker character. Fools errand to think he wouldn't be one of two most important characters. It's his Saga. He isn't Poe who got a role expansion because the actor asked for it and the studio bosses agreed even though they really didn't have to. There was no story requirement for more Poe. Leia ran the resistance and Rey was an ace pilot. He did nothing they couldn't.

@JohnWilliamsSonoma

Maybe that's the subversion Rian went for.

 

NEWSFLASH: John was not disappointed with TFA.

 

Sorry at this point people are talking out of both sides of their mouth and doing contortions to try to fit their subjective viewpoint. They were people who hated the TLJ and were called sexist/racist because of it. Sorry but I am old enough to remember that including on this board. I fine the whole thing to be idiotic and nausea to no end. If John had that big of a problem with his role in TLJ and TROS as he says, then why he didn't say a single thing about it back then? Mark Hamill did. He let be known he was not happy with his character's arc in TLJ. John didn't though. He was the one those defending it. Now three years later he has a completely different tune because the Mouse is no longer paying him. Funny how that works.

 

Hamill was just able to get away with it better because he is playing Luke Skywalker. and the studio really wanted to benefit off him. which meant they would be more forgiving towards him.

 

NEWSFLASH John was disappointed with Finn overall. He names TFA marketing too. That's the gist of all the troubles. He was advertised as the main hero Jedi and he wasn't. I remember that fans who cared were disappointed with TFA becasue the character was nothing like advertised. Human Jar Jar they said. I'm talking about the old Finn Thread on this forum. Yes, there was a time when JJ was the villain and Rian the savor. Before TLJ came out, there was expectation that TLJ would fix Finn since he was a comic relief used for bait and switch in TFA. But since nothing short of Jedi Finn who leads the storm trooper rebellion and gets to smooch Rey wouldn't suffice, here we are. Not that TLJ did a good job with him but reality is that Finn superfans who are parked here and in John's twitter/IG account, have very narrow idea of what would make Finn cool. And 3 movies failed on each point. TFA only had the luxury of giving them hope that next movie would do something worthwhile because TFA was purposefully vague and didn't commit to anything, thus different fans interpreted it any way they liked. It's the first movie that one could customize to their own headcanons. And I specifically mention fans parked here and in John's accounts because all his talking points, including name dropping Adam and surprisingly his Peanut Daisy, are talking point regurgitated here and in his account for years. No wonder he sounds like an average disgruntled Finn superfan.

 

I don't think the concept of Finn going off on his own adventure is the problem, considering where TFA left off. The problem people have is the nature of his "adventure". He's not a hero who saves anyone's day, all he accomplishes is getting 80% of the remaining Resistance members killed because he got a parking ticket. But at least he set some animals free on an island and caused some property damage to people who employ child labor/slavery, so it was worth it. Oh, and he also managed to kill Captain Phasma again, 2 minutes after we learned she was even alive in the first place.

 

His peanut? I need to update my slang knowledge.

 

Everybody fails to an extent, it’s not exclusive to Finn.


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It’s not slang, it’s what they call each other


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Yeah. He was still not disappointed with that film. By all accounts, he loved it.

 

Well he seemed really disappointed that he got separated from Daisy in the 2nd movie. and i have always seen that as abit unfair on kelly marie tran as it just sounded like he prefered Daisy over Kelly. but i wouldn't be shocked if he just wanted to be a duel role in the force plot and while Rey and Kylo continued on it, Finn was moved over to somewhere else.

I have never been convinced though that Finn was being set up to be a force user though. i think the marketing kept showing finn with the saber and Boyega clearly liked that. but with Rey she accidentally force mind tricking someone and had the skywalker saber calling to her. while with Finn it was just ah but Kylo looked at him in a particular way... he was clearly also force sensitive.

 

You can take Finn out of the movie and not change the plot at all. That's why people feel it's not good enough for a main character. He doesn't help our heroes succeed in any way, shape or form. In fact they would have been better off without his side quest. The same definitely can't be said for Rey, or even Admiral Holdo. On the other hand Poe's storyline is pretty equally terrible but I don't see how that helps anything.