Force potential over the generations (Possible Spoilers)

Darth_Guy: I don't think Force power has much to do with genetics (see: Shmi and Anakin).

Anakin was born of the Force itself. His father is basically the Force. If that's not a sign of some perfect Force genes, I don't know what is.

ChildofWinds: It even goes as far back as circa TotJ-- Andur/Nomi and Vima (in fact the entire Sunrider lineage) and the Qel-Droma brothers (and that's another lineage, considering there was a Duron Qel-Droma mentioned in KotOR). And like Ive_Got_Two_Legs already pointed out, there's that entire Sith population that was created when the Dark Jedi mingled with the Sith way back when.

 

I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but Cloak of Deception stated that there are families that simply don't produce Jedi - for example, the Valorum family, despite having existed for thousands of years, never produced a single Force-talented member.

 

Darth_Guy: I don't think Force power has much to do with genetics (see: Shmi and Anakin).

Anakin was born of the Force itself. His father is basically the Force. If that's not a sign of some perfect Force genes, I don't know what is.

The Force has no genes, and the midis would have to get the human genetic material from somewhere, and Shmi was kinda the nearest source.

 

To quote Obi-Wan,

The emperor knew as I did. If Anakin were to have any offspring, they WOULD be a threat to him

Why? Because they knew Force potential was passed from generation to generation.

 

It's not necessarily genetic. The midis could simply "choose" to be passed on through families.

 

Actually, KenKenobi's theory does make sense, and it also explains why certain beings in the galaxy are not Force sensitive, potential, however it works, when there siblings are. For instance, on the genetics area, genes can be either dominant/dominant, recessive/recessive, or dominant/recessive. Many of the genes are intergenerational. For instance, the child of non-Force sensitives may very well have genes come up that are dominant and give them enough midis to gain great Force power. However, some children of a Force-sensitive may inherit two recessive genes, one from the Force sensitive parent, and the other from the non-Force sensitive parent. In other words, it explains why even among the Haruun Kal and the Dathomiri, some are more Force-sensitive than others. God bless.

 

Ive_Got_Two_Legs: I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but Cloak of Deception stated that there are families that simply don't produce Jedi - for example, the Valorum family, despite having existed for thousands of years, never produced a single Force-talented member.

Well, it all works out. The Valorums don't carry the Force-sensitive gene, and there's been no random manifestation or breeding with a Force-sensitive to produce a Force-talented member.

Darth_Guy: The Force has no genes, and the midis would have to get the human genetic material from somewhere, and Shmi was kinda the nearest source.

Maybe you don't know what it takes to create offspring. See, when a man likes a woman, the man makes love to the woman, and together they create a child.

Said child inherits chromosomes from both parents. In the case of Anakin Skywalker, there was no father-- thus, barring some freakish Plagueis theory becoming canon, he received half of his chromosomes from Shmi, and half from the Force itself.

Thus, Anakin was Force-sensitive. He had children. He passed that chromosome down to them. And so on and so forth.

It's not necessarily genetic. The midis could simply "choose" to be passed on through families.

You ought to go back and read my original post about midi-chlorians.

JacenSolo: There you have it.

 

Kenkenobi

Maybe you don't know what it takes to create offspring. See, when a man likes a woman, the man makes love to the woman, and together they create a child.

LOL, well at least now he knows.

If that's not a sign of some perfect Force genes, I don't know what is.

yeah that is pretty much the skywalker family have the ultimate potential. but what about zonama sekot ? what was the deal with the force and that ?


Force potential-wise, yes indeed.

thanks, yeah not how powerful a jedi is at a current state. well since the info you gave me is courtesy of theforce.net is based on GL's explanation, then is it safe to say this is G-level canon that force potential is the same in families ?

random question but why does your icon look so familiar, yet i can't place a name on her ?

ChildofWinds

Parents had to be willing to give up their children. And as others have said, not everyone was well-suited to being a Jedi and ended up somewhere else, like the Agri-corps.

hey child , what is exactly agric-corp ? wasn't that in SQ ?

Almost all of the Jedi have Jedi children, so genetics IS usually involved. Just a few examples:

good examples, but does kyle and his father count ?

SithPirate

Why? Because they knew Force potential was passed from generation to generation

yeah the emperor said at least in several ocassions how powerful the twins might be.

 

Well I can only agree with Ken, here.

It really fits well with the est'd. canon we have. Also it jives really well with what ltd. knowledge I have of genetics.

 

i also agree with ken's theory

 

Luke Skywalker in RotJ, if not Anakin's equal in the Force, is pretty darn close.

This is complete nonsense.

Luke got verbally harrassed by on old guy in ROTJ. He exhibited no prowess at all. He was to the level of maybe Anakin when he cut down Krayn. Vader wasn't really defending himself. He didn't want to kill Luke and didn't want Palps to kill him either.

Anakin did hundreds of missions AS a Jedi. Luke's not a real Jedi for years after ROTJ. His father was protecting him the whole time. He protected him from Xizor, and many other assassination attempts. Luke was lucky. People kissed his butt because he got credit for something he didn't do. Look at the way a bunch of amateurs from Brakiss to Kyp to even CBoath kicked his butt. Even Kueller put him into a coma. Anakin would have killed all those pups with a flick of the wrist.

 

It looks like Mirax to me.

It's where young Jedi were sent to work if no one chose them to be their padawan by the time they were a teenager. Basically, it was either become a Jedi or become a gardener, so naturally the AgriCorp kids got a lot of teasing by the padawans.

 

thanks Ive_Got_Two_Legs, i thought i heard of it in SQ somewhere.

Tiershon_Fett

This is complete nonsense.

i think in TPM, the Trade Federation senators said the same thing or similiar to it, but that is your opinion.


Vader wasn't really defending himself. He didn't want to kill Luke and didn't want Palps to kill him either.

have you ever thought that luke wasn't trying ? he was just defending himself, he wasn't planning on killing his father, he was trying to turn him to the light.

In ESB vader didn't want to kill him not ROTJ(vader said luke would meet his destiny), he was only testing the boy, he wanted him to kill Palps. Palps also wanted luke to kill vader. luke was a threat to both of them.(Face it you know it to be true!!!)

Look at the way a bunch of amateurs from Brakiss to Kyp to even CBoath kicked his butt. Even Kueller put him into a coma. Anakin would have killed all those pups with a flick of the wrist.

First off i could start on a large rant and a very long list on how luke has done so much that it isn't funny, but this will turn into a debate on who is more powerful than the other.

this thread isn't about that, we're talking about force potential here not power. luke has done much as a jedi and so did anakin. so please lets not compare power.

also anakin wasn't so powerful in the movies, neither was luke, but both were good jedi knights.

 

MasterSkywalker86: then is it safe to say this is G-level canon that force potential is the same in families ?

Pretty much, barring some crazy future canonical revelation that magically disproves it. It's all based off of Lucas' comments and science.

random question but why does your icon look so familiar, yet i can't place a name on her ?

It is indeed Mirax Terrik.

HandofSkywalker86: Well I can only agree with Ken, here.

It really fits well with the est'd. canon we have. Also it jives really well with what ltd. knowledge I have of genetics.

Thanks. And I like the abbr.

T_F: This is complete nonsense.

A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men...

Luke got verbally harrassed by on old guy in ROTJ.

First of all, that "old guy" was kriffin' Darth Sidious.

Second of all, since when was being verbally harassed a detriment to your abilities? An old man could verbally harass Chuck Lidell, but that doesn't mean old Chuck wouldn't beat the crap out of you in a fight.

He exhibited no prowess at all.

Except that, you know, he's wielding a lightsaber against Darth Vader only a few years after he realized what a lightsaber even was. Which is irrelevent considering I didn't say Luke was Anakin's equal in lightsaber combat, but "in the Force."

Vader wasn't really defending himself.

Not defending hismelf here
Nope, not really defending himself
You're right, no defense at all
Sure isn't blocking anything, is he?
Again, no defense!

Vader was at least keeping up his saber defense.

He didn't want to kill Luke and didn't want Palps to kill him either.

Have you got some explicit evidence to support the fact that Vader was letting Luke beat the poodoo out of him at the end of their fight on the DSII? Which is beside the point, considering Luke thought there was still good in his father, and he wasn't trying to kill Vader. Sure, he got mad when he taunted Leia and busted out some ownage, but you can see even then he doesn't finish him off.

Anakin did hundreds of missions AS a Jedi. Luke's not a real Jedi for years after this.

1.) I never said Luke was as experienced as Anakin at this point. Only that he was at least "darn close" to him when it came to the Force.

2.) Perhaps that's your opinon of when Luke became a "real Jedi". Yoda said he would be one when he confronted Vader (Luke says "Then I am a Jedi? and Yoda says "Ohhh. Not yet. One thing remains: Vader. You must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi will you be. And confront him you will.")

Now you are allowed to have your own opinon, and I respect that, but you'll forgive me if I'm inclined to agree with Yoda on this matter.

His father was protecting him the whole time.

Cutting off his hand on Bespin and fighting him on the DSII after preventing him from killing arguably (just so you just don't drift me into an irrelevent discussion on this issue) the most evil man in the galaxy? Hmm, that's quite an interesting way of protecting someone "the whole time."

From a certain point of view, I guess.

He protected him from Xizor, and many other assassination attempts. Luke was lucky.

In my experience there's no such thing as luck...

Look at the way a bunch of amateurs from Brakiss to Kyp to even CBoath kicked his butt. Even Kueller put him into a coma. Anakin would have killed all those pups with a flick of the wrist.

You're right, you see. Anakin would have opened up a can on those fools.

Anakin also turned to the Dark Side, whereas Luke when confronted with similar situations would rather himself die th

 

Ken Kenobi you are a riot. also thanks dude, now i know force potential wise luke=anakin=leia=jacen=jaina=ben and the best part is it's actually g-level canon.

the score is KK with 1 and TF with 0.

 

Ken Kenobi you are a riot.

Better break out the riot gear!

*rimshot*

also thanks dude, now i know force potential wise luke=anakin=leia=jacen=jaina=ben and the best part is it's actually g-level canon.

It's not explicit G-level, it's just a scientific explanation of G-level (Lucas' midi-chlorian comments) with canon to support it (all the lineage examples that were given, etc.).

the score is KK with 1 and TF with 0.

You don't keep score in a discussion.

Though I do like the idea that I'm racking up points. Do I get bonus points if I say that MasterSkywalker86 is my hero?

 

KenKenobi

Better break out the riot gear!

yeah you better equipped your flack jacket, knee pads, elbow pads, helmet, and better yet duck & cover under a desk.


It's not explicit G-level, it's just a scientific explanation of G-level (Lucas' midi-chlorian comments) with canon to support it (all the lineage examples that were given, etc.).

i'll suffice with canon. also thanks to Lijot i also have a huge list of luke feats. though i don't want this thread to start off as a most powerful jedi discussion.

Though I do like the idea that I'm racking up points. Do I get bonus points if I say that MasterSkywalker86 is my hero?

you get a million points, plus another million if you act out the entire duel scene in ROTS as obi-wan(only a sith deals in absolutes) and say luke is the most powerful jedi ever.

It is indeed Mirax Terrik.

what a hottie , but isn't she related to booster ?

 

you get a million points, plus another million if you act out the entire duel scene in ROTS as obi-wan(only a sith deals in absolutes) and say luke is the most powerful jedi ever.

Well the DVD isn't out yet, so I can't act it all out to perfection, but all you have to do is look through all the old Jedi Drafts in SWC to give me the million points for the Luke thing.

what a hottie , but isn't she related to booster ?

Booster's daughter, yep. I'm still waiting for LFL to hurry and kill off Corran so they introduce a Ken Kenobi character to marry her.

And with what we've established about Force genetics in this thread, it wouldn't be a stretch for there to be another Kenobi running around...

 

KenKenobi posted on 8/23/05 3:12pm

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[b]Ive_Got_Two_Legs:[/b][b]Darth_Guy:[/b] [i]The Force has no genes, and the midis would have to get the human genetic material from somewhere, and Shmi was kinda the nearest source.[/i]

Maybe you don't know what it takes to create offspring. See, when a man likes a woman, the man makes love to the woman, and together they create a child. [face_happy]

Said child inherits chromosomes from both parents. In the case of Anakin Skywalker, there was no father-- thus, barring some freakish Plagueis theory becoming canon, he received half of his chromosomes from Shmi, and half from the Force itself.[hr][/blockquote]

You assume that Star Wars follows our rules. ;) Clearly it does not, otherwise there would have to be a human male for Anakin to be born.

 

I disagree with this totally, because look at Luke, hundreds of missions after becoming a Jedi.
Three specific scenes in mind:
-When he saves Jacen in the embrace early in NJO.
-Flies up the tower ahead of the twins at the end of NJO.
-And when he does that trick with the Shadow, (it was the Shadow right?) in TJK that ends up **** with his features.

If those aren't spectacular displays of the Force.. I don't know what would be.

 

also there is DE where he uses the force to leviate a star destroyer, destroys an at-at with the force and defeats the emperor in a lightsaber duel. also in JAT he can levitate himself and walked on lava,LAVA !!!

 

Luke got verbally harrassed by on old guy in ROTJ. He exhibited no prowess at all. He was to the level of maybe Anakin when he cut down Krayn. Vader wasn't really defending himself. He didn't want to kill Luke and didn't want Palps to kill him either.

That's odd because I thought it was quite obvious Luke was faking against Palpatine.

I mean, everyone fakes to get Anakin on their side, Luke could have simply took his saber to Palpatine and shoved it where the sun don't shine, but no. Luke was like "Look at me, your son, I'm a helpless kid being fried by a Sith Lord." and of course Ani falls for it once again and flushes his master down the toilet. Just watch. As soon as Vader picks Palps up, Luke gets up like nothing ever happened.

Luke was totally pulling all the strings in DSII. In fact I think by Swarm War, Luke's going to learn Jacen's time trick and go back in time and become Darth Plagius. If fact they even say after Swarm War there's no doubt that Luke is the Most powerful Jedi Master.

Uh oh, I hope I don't get banned for that spoiler.

 

Darth Guy: You assume that Star Wars follows our rules. Clearly it does not, otherwise there would have to be a human male for Anakin to be born.

No, see, first of all I didn't say that there needed to be a human male for Anakin to be born. Let me repeat what I said:

...Said child inherits chromosomes from both parents. In the case of Anakin Skywalker, there was no father-- thus, barring some freakish Plagueis theory becoming canon, he received half of his chromosomes from Shmi, and half from the Force itself.

Anakin has to have gotten chromosomes from the Force, otherwise he would have had all of Shmi's chromosomes, and would basically be a clone of her.

Now before you go and say "But still, that means it doesn't follow our rules...", let me remind you that it is G-canon direct from George Lucas that the SW galaxy exists in the same universe as ours. Therefore, it must operate upon the same principles of physics, even though we have no idea how even a small fraction of their technology works.

My entire first post was based off of scientific analysis of Lucas' comments on the matter, and it was he who drew the parallel between midi-chlorians and mitochondria. I thereby invoke Aitrus' Principle (graciously explained below by alpha_red):

Unless an event in a story blatantly violates a fundamental law of physics and no explanation can be formulated within real science, either by another interpretation or by extrapolating upon existing physics as to why said event would occur, the physical law stands.

It doesn't matter that it's fantasy, or science fiction, or whatever. The arrows in Lord of the Rings obey the laws of motion, and Saruman's bomb follows the laws of thermodynamics. True magic use in the series is relatively restricted, actually.



Pirate: I literally laughed out loud while reading that little theory. Thanks for that.

 

SP

LOL, then doesn't that mean luke gets killed by sidious in his sleep ? i was hoping jacen would become plagueis. vader never seems to learn his lesson though, but he said himself "i'am a slow learner."

 

KenKenobi posted on 8/24/05 11:04am

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[b]Darth Guy:[/b] [i]You assume that Star Wars follows our rules. Clearly it does not, otherwise there would have to be a human male for Anakin to be born.[/i]

No, see, first of all I didn't say that there needed to be a human male for Anakin to be born. Let me repeat what I said:

...Said child inherits chromosomes from both parents. [u]In the case of Anakin Skywalker, [b]there was no father[/b]-- thus, barring some freakish Plagueis theory becoming canon, he received half of his chromosomes from Shmi, and half from the Force itself.[/u]

Anakin [i]has[/i] to have gotten chromosomes from the Force, otherwise he would have had all of Shmi's chromosomes, and would basically be a clone of her.[hr][/blockquote]

So the Force spontaneously generated a Y-chromosome from nothing?

[blockquote][link=http://boards.theforce.net/user.asp?usr=KenKenobi][b]KenKenobi[/b][/link] [b]posted on 8/24/05 11:04am[/b][hr]Now before you go and say "But still, that means it doesn't follow our rules...", let me remind you that it is G-canon direct from George Lucas that the SW galaxy exists in the same universe as ours. Therefore, it must operate upon the same principles of physics, even though we have no idea how even a small fraction of their technology works.

My entire first post was based off of scientific analysis of Lucas' comments on the matter, and it was he who drew the parallel between midi-chlorians and mitochondria. I thereby invoke Aitrus' Principle (graciously explained below by alpha_red):

Unless an event in a story blatantly violates a fundamental law of physics and no explanation can be formulated within real science, either by another interpretation or by extrapolating upon existing physics as to why said event would occur, the physical law stands.

It doesn't matter that it's fantasy, or science fiction, or whatever. The arrows in Lord of the Rings obey the laws of motion, and Saruman's bomb follows the laws of thermodynamics. True magic use in the series is relatively restricted, actually.[hr][/blockquote]

It [i]does[/i] violate the laws of physics. A Y-chromosome can't come from nowhere.