ST Force Powers In The ST Discussion Thread

I've seen snake healing only once so I can't tell but she definitely wasn't weakened after healing Kylo. Sad that it came to this (that she stabbed him) but not weakened.

 

Abrams et al can always fall back on their 'get out clause', which is that many of the skills/powers that Rey learnt from the Jedi texts, were 'lost' skills, which were only found later by Luke. And given that Luke couldn't be arsed reading these books, when kicking around the island for several years with nothing to do, only adds insult to injury... as Luke could have saved Han Solo (and numerous others) if he'd been there.

 

She was weakened after the snake. You see her rubbing her hand as if it were in pain afterwards.

But I think I should point out something, here. Rey doesn't bring Kylo back from death. She is healing a wound that is much smaller than the injury that the sand snake had, even if Kylo's wound was fatal she isn't reviving a stone dead person like Kylo does later on.

I will give you that a Jedi could probably heal a wound in the battlefield and it has probably happened in-universe even if we haven't seen it.

But to your point about Anakin, how is he supposed to heal her? What is he supposed to touch or look for to apply his Force topical cream?

 

oh her hand hurt? Yeah, that’s a good reason not to teach Jedi how to force heal.

I’m aware that Rey didn’t bring Kylo back to life. That’s my whole point. She healed a serious injury that would have caused his death. Same way Anakin could have used Force healing to heal any hemorrhages that Padme would have suffered during childbirth.

 

But Padmé didn't have any injuries to heal. That's the point I'm making. What was Anakin going to end up healing? I would speculate that off-screen she went to a doc to make sure there weren't any complications and none were found. I feel like talking about Anakin using Force Healing is silly in this context because it doesn't really apply.

And about Kylo, I would think it's more about how big the wound was instead of how fatal. You could get a fatal stab in real life without dying and people can come back from those no problem. Kylo gets stabbed by a lightsaber, his wound is the circumference of the blade. It doesn't take much out of a person to heal such a thing. Meanwhile, the worm has a wound of exceptional size and it takes more out of her to do so, so I still don't see why this is an issue.

 

Just watched the clip on YT and she absolutely isn't exhausted after healing the snake. She rubs her hand but is otherwise strong and fine.

 

I don't think I've said anything about her being "exhausted". But the act of healing the worm does take something from her. If she is "giving up her life force" as the movie puts it--and apologies for paraphrasing but I can't remember the actual line--then she us going to lose something, be it energy or otherwise. I feel like this argument isn't coming from something you have actually taken from the film because the film has done a decent job of explaining this. To give life takes life. If you give a little bit of life, a little bit of life is taken from you. This isn't something to debate, this is something the movie actually spells out.

 

The movie sets up a parallel between Rey healing the snake and BB-8 recharging D-O. After healing the snake Rey even has a line to BB-8 that goes something like "Given the chance you would do the same."

BB-8 is loosing power from his own battery to charge D-O but it's not permanent. After a recharge BB-8 will be back to full power again. I think the movie is saying it's the same way with Rey and the Snake. Rey hasn't permanently given up any of her own life. Any energy Rey lost by healing the snake will be regained in short order. The side effects are the same as any other Force Power.

Kylo Ren on the other hand goes to such an extreme use of the Force healing Rey that it does kill him. That's something new to the Sequel Trilogy. We see Force users use the Force so hard they die from it. We also see Baby Yoda over do it with the Force on two occassions. Stopping the mudhorn beast knocks him out for a long time. Healing Greef Karga also knocks out Baby Yoda but for less time. Both times Baby Yoda recovers fully with rest.

It's like physical exercise. Working out in moderation uses energy that is later replenished. And working out this way over a period of time makes a person stronger. But extreme physical exertion can drain someone so completely that their bodies are damaged.

 

Ok, so Plapy says about the dyad "the power like life itself" and "the power of two restores the one". So it seems to me that resurrection may be just the dyad thing, between the dyad mates, while healing can be performed outside of the dyad.

 

Everything seems very well cleared up above with Ben and Rey. The two Force usages not talked about here is Luke catching a saber while a Force Ghost and Palpatine using dark science to transfer his essence into a clone body. I feel Luke in the scene has shown his ability to manifest his spirit into the physical realm by catching the saber. Sure old Obi Wan sits on a log, but I think this was impressive of Luke. Just like Yoda when he hits him in the head with a cane and unleashes a lightning strike. (Wish he would've done that v. Palps)
Palpatine's use of the dark side seems to give ones essence just a little bit of time to crawl out and go into something nearby. This was probably not possible as DS2 exploded within minutes after his death. He may have latched onto something inside the station as it crashed below to Kef Bur. Then his Sith Acolytes found him inside and transported him to his new body. Hopefully Rey and all the Jedi blew away any essence of the Sith thus making them extinct

 

Regarding Force ghosts, I think the important thing to remember is that they aren’t really dead. I mean, they are, but they also “aren’t” because they live directly in the Force now, and while we don’t know much about them, it makes sense they would not lose their ability to interact with the material world. In a way, they are more real than living beings who have not formed that connection to the Cosmic Force.

As for Palpatine’s resurrection, the novelization has him projecting his spirit instantly across space to Exegol at the moment of his fall down the Death Star tower. Note that this is similar to Luke’s projection, though with vastly different effects. Personally, though, I’m not a fan of that story point from the books, nor indeed of any kind of traditional essence transfer. To me, it makes more sense for Papatine to be well and truly dead for a while, only to be summoned back from “hell” by his cult years later.

 

Reys healing powers reminds me of Palpatine putting his hand on Anakin as he lay dying on Mustafar... love that tie in.

 

And that was very similar to the way Obi-wan put his hand on Luke's head after the Tusken raider fight.

 

love a bit of mirroring.. maybe Obi wan knew she had healing skills which is why he could communicate with her... these are Your first steps..

 

I’m not sure if this has been brought up yet, but The Star Wars Book — which is a fantastic read, for anyone who’s interested — actually confirms that Rey and Ben’s Force healing abilities are a result of their dyad. I don’t take issue with that, but I do wish the sequels — and The Rise of Skywalker, in particular — would’ve done a much better job at addressing the concept of the dyad. Those two characters are at the heart of this trilogy and iI felt like I had to rely too much on sources outside of the film itself to fully understand their connection.

I also think The Rise of Skywalker could’ve done a better job at explaining what exactly happened with Leia. When she dies, she’s obviously exhibiting an ability similar to Luke’s Force projection in The Last Jedi, but it’s different. I would assume she isn’t exerting herself the way that Luke did because she never physically appears on Kef Bir, but she still dies, which the novel confirms was bound to happen anyway because she never fully recovered from being blasted into space in The Last Jedi. But then there’s the whole concept of Ben’s Force memory of Han, and whether or not Leia was the one projecting that to him, which was never fully explained. Then Leia dies, but is apparently able to control when her body fades into the Force (unlike the other Jedi), which leads me to believe that her spirit has some sort of influence on the events that occur in the rest of the film. We know from the final trailer that Leia was originally the one who was supposed to say “always” to Rey on Exegol, not Luke.

At least there was an explanation for Rey and Kylo’s Force abilities. I don’t doubt Leia’s ability in the Force and am glad that the sequels finally showcased it, but I would’ve liked some clarification on how much of what happened was actually Leia and how she would’ve been capable of controlling her own fate after death by potentially manifesting herself into a memory of Han and then lingering around until Ben dies so she could take him with her into the Cosmic Force.

 

dyad really means "covers up plot holes."

 

I do feel, especially in TROS, that Force powers became instant cast magic spells, like something from a comic book or video game, and that the Force lost all meaning in the ST. It turned the ST into something more like Marvel movies, which I find sad. Only, even Marvel movies have a better power growth curve than the ST.

The whole bringing Rey back from death thing legitimately made me feel bad, as if they just took a big dump on Anakin and ROTS. It felt like being in a room with nine people, and one of them casually insults another in front of everyone, it's really awkward, and you just feel bad for the insulted person.

 

The whole thing for one was badly set up. If they would have included Anakin's spirit communicate with Luke and Rey, helping them learn new powers, re Force Heal, then at the point we can ask ourselves that this feels better inside and not feel so dirty like the feeling we got.
It was simply put, "too over the top". I wouldn't say Matvel over the top as they were smart enough not to go that far, but including healing power to two of the main characters who were never seeking the knowledge or training for it, left it vague and unconvincing while leaving Anakin's journey unrelatable.

 

I thought it was pretty messy to introduce the whole Sith ritual being Palptine’s path to immortality, while also having the Sith dyad, which is also Palpatine’s attempted path to immortality by trying to crate the dyad with Vader (since the two can bring each other back to life).

Even the language is similar and messy, “you and I will be one”, and also “now the power of the two restores the one true emperor”.

And then add to that, the Leia stuff was also super messy from her prophesized “death of her son at the end of her training”, and then vanishing at the same time as Ben, as if to say her spirit was tied to Ben’s in some dyad / “you and I will be one” type fashion.

 

Even Snoke is seen to have more force power capability than Palpatine/the emperor had in the PT/OT respectively. Rey can pick up multiple boulders on circa day 3 of her journey… and let’s not even get into what’s on display in TROS. This oneupmanship is just a consequence of the lack of thought and care in the writing.

 

I dont see Snoke showing Nore powers then Palpatine, all ge does is force choke and lifts Rey and toys with her. Maybe making bridge with Ben and Rey. Rey lifting boulders i can look beyond, after seeing what jedi can do in the tv shows. In TROS i can see the force powers critism with the dyad and all.

 

He does when you consider what he's shown to do on screen within 2 films. They did with Snoke what they basically did with Star Killer Base and the Star Destroyers; in that they have to make them look bigger and more powerful in order for to seem comparatively more dangerous to what went before. Palpatine wasn't spinning people around 2 films into either the OT or the PT. At least Lucas left it till ROTS to show Palaptine's full force power... and even then, Yoda and Palpatine were fairly evenly matched.

 

I dont know if shownig more powerfull force powers is because better effects and such, in the tv shows we see Anakin, Maul, Ahsoka, Ezra and Kanan do crazy stuff.not to mention witches and gods. Palpatine even does beyond anything he does in the movies. I can agree on bigger ships and star killer, right now with star killer being Illum makes more sense. Outside Snoke's big ship, the first order is just imerial ships with differents designs. In the OT they probarly coundt do mutch force powers. in the PT they could do more.

 

I'm not sure one can compare what happens in live action with animation... it's an entirely different aesthetic with a more stylised approach, where a characters hair doesn't even move. As for the Stormtroopers and First Order ships etc... The First Order equivalent stormtroopers look like they are on steroids... they are much beefier... and their Star Destroyers are far bigger/bulkier than their Imperial counterparts.

 

Not tying to compare lice action and animation but more that as time goes on we might get to see more force powers like how animation does it. Its still not there but we see more of it.

And damn First Order star destroyer just thrumps the republic cruisers by three times.