Lit From Exegol to _____? The State of the Galaxy Discussion continued

That actually sounds like an interesting status quo for a new era of SW, new and unique, but i just don't think it's going to happen in post-Episode IX, and maybe too bleak for the "optimistic" (cough, rushed, cough) ending we got.

 

I don’t like it since it just seems too un starwarsy for my taste

Plus it’s to bleak in general. Star Wars has rules to follow ...otherwise it becomes sci-fi heavy generic stuff that was in my mind the majority of legends

 

It's like an extended Dark Times era, it's plausible we get something like that in the vast history of the Old Republic Era in Canon.

 

Its bad enough the ST brought back the Sith, blew up the New Republic and returned the Jedi to just one survivor.

So post ST should......

No More Frakin Sith. None.....whatsover....no more Rule of Two repeats....nor large groups of Sith...i.e Lost Tribe or One Sith.....ZERO.....

Also no "Evil group of darksiders with red sabers who are similar but not called Sith". We have other eras to give us Jedi vs Sith, and also a fair amount of saber vs saber action. Its adds to the uniqueness of the Old Republic eras, and also the dark times (lesser extent the Clone Wars), by keeping those eras as the ones where there is a group of evil saber users running around. Let Post ST be its own thing......

Keep the Jedi around, but never let them return to the popularity/numbers they had in the Age of the Republic. Let there numbers increase slowly. Don't have Rey repeat what Luke did and start an Academy. She only trains one person at a time. And please no fallen apprentices in her lifetime. Im ok with future dark jedi popping up, but have that threat be in a new generation of Jedi post Rey. Said dark jedi should not be in large numbers, preferably only one or two, and whatever happens with dark jedi, doesn't cause the collapse of the Jedi.......again.....

But im ok with future Jedi reaching close to collapse....as long as its not because of Sith/Dark Jedi, and there is more then 1 survivor of the Order. No more Last Jedi situations.

A new enemy, preferably one from outside the known galaxy. Perhaps like the Vong, they have weapons that can stand up to a Jedi's saber, giving us duels with a saber that are not like the usual ones.

Not a New New Republic, something different, im ok with a divided galaxy, would make it more interesting if the galaxy is still very divided if an extra galactic threat shows up......

 

that I’m more okay with to be honest.

but honestly I’m not a fan of Star Wars being a franchise that “moves forward” in the timeline

one of many reasons I dislike legacy comics

backward is a different story


In terns of story how about small scale things like Legend of Korra did

 

What i was saying is that i like the concept as a whole, just not for post-TROS, as it would be kind of jarring lol.

 

oh...didn’t get that now I do


Personally I think post TROS should just do small scale stories like Bantam Era did.

problem of the week

like maaaybe every now and then like they find a old Sith ghost or something but nothing major

local issues

 

Guys, you're missing the point. Austig didn't suggest an era of Star Wars with a more bleak tone. (ala The Dark Times or KOTOR 2 for instance). He literally suggested "new heroes bring hope, but then they fail and die, and then everyone in the galaxy dies". Also " Star Wars IS about failure though, TFA and TLJ are all about how the OT heroes were total failures, everything they built failed."

He's not making a legit proposal for what should come next in the saga, he's just being salty about the ST and disguising it as a proposal.

Which, I get it, the return to the status quo and no more Jedi are by far my biggest issues with the ST. But I'm going to say the same things I've said before when he's brought up similar ideas: A) At least the ST didn't *completely* reset the playing field. There was an era of peace for a few decades. B) If you thought the previous story was too hopeless and had too few Jedi, then you should want the next story go in the opposite direction. Saying "the last story was too depressing, so let's double down and go ultra grimdark" just sounds spiteful and childish.

 

I think i'm with @StarWarsFan91 in that the Sith should be done, forever and ever at this point, mainly because Episode IX does seem like a good climax for their threat, and because that opens the door for more unique and interesting antagonists, plus, the last time we got an "ending for all the Sith forever" in the EU it wasn't satisfying at all (Legacy 2) so i prefer if they just dodge that bullet and focus on other things instead.

Maybe they can have rivalring Force Organizations to the New Jedi but in a very different form than before, perhaps something akin to the Jensaraai with a misguided sense of justice, or like the Scions with their obsessive visions leading them to fanaticism that becomes a menace, or like the Imperial Knights or Knights of Zakuul defending a rising monarchy that coexists with the "New New Glactic Republic Confederation of Free Alliance Planets" yet clashes with it from time to time, have some plurality to the Galactic map after so much time of big goverments like @ColeFardreamer often suggests.

Basically, even if you never have the Sith again, which i think is the right choice, you can still have Force User conflicts, just with new dynamics.

And i agree that it should be mostly smaller stuff.

 

oh no I smelled the salt ..enough to put on a plate of fries.

but no I agree with you I think it’s a extreme position to say canon has no heroes or that Star Wars is about failure

we can all have our reads but I just think it’s wrong

@Irredeemable Fanboy

I just said force ghost Sith since I think Young Jedi Knights and Jedi Academy trilogy are good templates for inspiration

 

Well... According to Wookieepedia, Exar Kun is a thing in Canon, so maybe...

 

I also don't want any new faction of force users to pop up that wields lightsabers who are not Jedi.

I wish the Imperial Knights were not given lightsabers.

The only people who should ever wield a saber who are not Jedi post ST are ex-Jedi (a rarity) or someone who finds an old saber and uses it.

Let new factions of force users use various other types of weapons, even melee ones that are resistant to a sabers blade (The First Order had weapons that fit that category).

A darkside assassin group would be interesting, a group of people who use an assortment of weapons that work for whomever pays. They prefer silent weapons......

 

No mate YOU MISSED my point. Having the heroes fail and blow up the galaxy was a refence to the end of Warhammer. @Jid123Sheeve you also missed it.

Why not double down, make the bleakness an aspect that the heroes need to overcome. The ST is incredibly bleak, I mean they kill the jedi offscreen and blow up the NR.

That is extremely bleak. The OT heroes didn't do anything to stop Palpatine especially given the newest Darth Vader comic issue.

So lean into that, have the galaxy now a warped place, one where the Sith cults have altered the people. Have the heroes need to create a new way to win, not just beat some bad guys and blow something up.

Make the new stories ABOUT something.

It would start as a dark time, with the heroes having to fight against it. Against the grimness itself.

 

@AusStig

see I just can’t get behind your interpretation of things

also I don’t know anything about Warhammer nor really care too

 

Different views.

Well it started as a parody of dark girtty 80s stuff and then dropped the parody (mostly).

also

You say star wars has rules, what do you think they are?

@Irredeemable Fanboy

I mean Rey wanders off into the wastes alone, the Resistance only free a few outer rim worlds, I could easily see the post Exegol galaxy looking a lot like the OT, just a bigger Rebel Alliance fighting a new Empire called the First Order.

 

You're right, they should experiment with that concept more, as the results in the pretorian guards are really unique.

Oh, i see, it's a radical take but it depends on how much you think such bleakness was overcome in the movies themselves, for me it seemed like the Galaxy turned into a better place after the movies due to the optimistic ending, but taking it into a different direction like that could be interesting, even if i feel it clashes with the tone of the ending of TROS and i don't agree with that approach.

A good way to work around it, however, would be to place the more bleak and depressing time period between the moment the Sith Eternal are defeated and everyone starts to rise up against the FO, and the real ending where Rey adopts the Skywalker name, perhaps showing the anarchy result of the destruction of so many goverments in quick succession, and seeing the guerilla warfare against the FO's remnants.

I think that would make it too muddy timeline wise, though, and it wouldn't reach the levels of big changes you are implying if it is held back by this type of timeline.

I basically think the idea is better for another time period, it's way easier that way, because you don't have to reconcile the tone of the ending of TROS with this hypotetical post-TROS period being so full of hopelessness at first.

 

Mostly when it comes to movies


Always be hopeful (yes Revenge of the Sith counts)

have that underdog hero vibe (Anakin is kinda a underdog throughout them)

always keep some positive message even if bad stuff happens

even when dark be able to appeal to all generations


@Irredeemable Fanboy

while maybe still to dark for Star Wars you dud mention the Sith rule era of old

 

I mean looking at Knight Errant you can still have stories set in that era that aren't Dark. I mean ANH blows up a planet but I would call it dark. The ST isn't dark.

I agree about hope, but I think it needs to be proportinal, RotS is hopeful, but Obi isn't throwing a party with the Lars's (that is what threw me in TLJ, when everyone acting like Endor when they have no reason, to be hopeful, since the galaxy said 'we don't care').

I think this is a dangerous thinking and lead to the bleakness of the ST. You have to have the heroes as underdogs and that is not something I agree with. At least not fully, I mean using this The Thrawn Trilogy wouldn't count as 'Star Wars', since the NR holds more of the galaxy, and neither would the Republic in the PT. This thinking lead to the ST destorying all the achievements of the OT. So I don't like it. Have the heroes be in personal danger, maybe out of reach or some other events keeping help away. But you don't need to be the underdog, how to use power is something I find more interesting (why I prefer Superman to Batman, HOW to use power is a more interesting question to me, since I don't think it has an easy answer).

I think the last two are linked to the first about 'dark', something I agree with you on, Star Wars isn't dark even if dark things happen. Look at legends I would call the legacy comics dark because they dwell on dark things, while the KOTOR comics don't and so aren't.

 

@AusStig

problem is I think the ST is good and prefer over pretty much all post Endor EU.

so...we differ greatly in that regard

 

The Old Republic era was sometimes pretty dark, even in stories without Sith (for example the Padawan Massacre in KOTOR).

Now that i think about it, this proposition of "era where the Sith are mainstream and the Jedi are few" could fit in one Legends alternate scenario for the Old Republic.

This is a bit off-topic but hold up a second.

Nowdays in SWTOR you have the Imperial Story and Republic, where the Commander is either one of those and can choose what to do in a large scale of the war, and they are treated as separate timelines, what if, at the game's end, they decide to give it a definitive end, but have it vary depending on your faction and final decisions? Then, you could have a scenario where the Sith Empire actually wins the Third Great War (or whatever it's called), and a long Dark Era of Sith Supremacy begins, where the entire Galaxy works as the Sith Empire did, under the rule of the almighty new Emperor, the Commander!

 

yes, since I think it is, worse than almost anything else in the EU, maybe even worse than the Denningverse (though I think that is more due to other stuff Denning had no part in).

So you feel the heroes need to be underdogs, do you agree with what I said earlier that the FO will still rule a lot of the galaxy post 9?

@Irredeemable Fanboy

Sith Emperor The Commander would be very funny.

But I was meaning more Sith ideals are the common.

Though a lot of Sith with few Jedi could tie into another story I had been kicking around. Where the FO still rule a lot and it is a SITH uprising they are fighting (the Resistance are there but they aren't doing much due to lack of resources and daring about people caught in the crossfire). kinda like the Syrian civil war, with the Sith in ISIS role.

 

Well essentially we’re arguing with a place of clear bias anyway I don’t think we’re gonna find any common ground

no because the Galaxy was rising up against them and the First Order is a weaker organization than the Empire

but you can still be a underdog and not have the empire rule.

 

@AusStig SW shouldn't get too bleak but I like that your point is to find a new way and make stories about something that is not status quo. Hence I am torn about your proposal and it depends on execution a lot. As others interpreted or misinterpreted your intent already, there is some I'dnot like to see and other elements I could easily imagine in that era or another.

@Irredeemable Fanboy Regarding the plurality and diversity in the galaxy, how much is too much, how many factions are ok? I myself did not settle yet for any option. If you only have two major powers that screams "future conflict" too much, if you got too many small states it may be chaotic or impractical or if some larger ones among a sea of smaller factions exist, one presumes those will suck up the surrounding ones down the line somehow. All scenarios got interesting stories to tell but I do not have a favourite yet.

But lets not just diversify the political landscape of the galaxy, how about doing the same to the Force? A rainbow of options so to speak! Not just many local force cults and shamanic traditions re-emerging after decades of suppression and hiding, but the Jedi Order staying smallscale yet with a Grand Convication style yearly gathering with all/most Force traditions to exchange lore, swap students and agree on mutual help should a larger threat arise. A system of checks and balances for the Forceusers as well as the political system of many nations. But one that should not fail like the pre-WW2 real world Bismark system that tied Europe into a knot of "if you attack me I and my friend strike back" treaties.

I kinda like Utopia and a unified galaxy but both in regards to the dystopian elements of each utopia for some as well as mirroring real life events it is apparent that we as fans as well as authors do not have the solutions to all troubles yet. Neither in real life nor in fiction and no fictional utopia can present that unless staying really really vague which over time stories would not be able to hold up. Therefore, lets show a galaxy in progress and process to become a future utopia (albeit one we may never reach in storytelling) and show it overcome one problem after another step by step. Meanwhile, as fiction always should do, try out new systems and constellations before the real world does maybe.

So far we have some rather fixed ideas present throughout our entire real world history that is mirrored in fiction. Lets break them up and try something very new.

F.e. what if we get rid of borders and posession? What if we have a galaxy that is more nomadic than settled down? Or where like some cultures do, depending on seasons, they migrate to a warmer/better place and return to the "other" home regularily? A planet or sector with dangerous hyperspace storms devastating the worlds every three years and people leaving yet returning nevertheless cause it is home? Have the Mandalorians return to a nomadic life like their ancestors the Taung had, be it as warrior race taking new homes or peacefully settling too and leaving again with cultivated worlds for others to continue in their wake?
Have the capital move around as in New Republic times in canon which was a great idea executed not often enough in fiction yet. Or what about new ideas for averting greed and power to accumulate in monopoly and other traps that had people fall and manipulate others? Have a rotating system for positions and even if longer terms can be elected, the office shared by several people. Not just a triumvirate but the concept for other lower positions too?
Have the Force's checks and balances against someone falling be like the Imperial Knights watching for their Emperor not going dark yet apply it to a mutual system between various Force cults or even after apprenticeship ended Jedi partners looking out for each other. No solitary missions or rarely only.Likewise have like in Dawn of the Jedi, the Force trainees have to study a year or more with every tradition (like Jacen Solo's sojourn or Luke and Ben retracing his steps in FOTJ) and have the diverse plurality of the Force traditions not be one order but one community, no light, nor dark, nor grey but a rainbow (yay flower power!).
Have education be more practical and people experience all sides and positions of life instead of growing up in their own peer bubble only. Have rich kids experience poverty practically for a limited time, have poor kids do the same among the elite and rich. Shape them by showing them and letting them draw their own conclusions, teach creativity and problem solving, not lore and repeating. Have them become the hope and future they want to be, not shaping them into specific roles for companies and jobs, which of course too is required but should not solely be the education system.
You could even try, though that is more complicated (saw it in some east european scifi animated show once with lovely original concepts), to have people rotate through roles like "criminal", "law enforcement", "citizen" so they truly know all sides of life. Sociologists know rulebreaking and life elements that fall outside of controled categories is essential to evolution and improving society as well as showing its flaws. And one needs to recognise and work with that element to improve the future, not simply punish or lock away or kill. Nobody does retort to crime or violence because they like it, or rarely at least after a long backstory that lead them to that point. And with rotationary systems people would judge the "other side" differently or not at all but rather try to make society work for everyone and realize why and where people fell off the bord and leashed out to be noticed and brought back in subconsciously.

But the galaxy and real world is not there yet but stories could draw inspiration and try out new roads. Truly develop a new way instead of reinstating old systems, Republics, orders.

After the ST, war is over, Sith are over. Have new challenges arise, new figures and types of heroes. How about an inuniverse Ghandi trying to get rid of old systems and inequality? Albert Schweitzer, Mother Therese, etc. figures that faced problems with or without a new war necessary to tell their story. Or like Lawrence of Arabia one that bridges cultures locked in conflict and exploitation. Ezra Bridger fits that role well, Ahsoka too.

I wonder if Lando will rise to his Legends self, businessman of galactic importance, after his Paasana Exile is over now. Did he have money and company ownership run by Lobot while he himself was gone? Or does he have to rebuild from the ground up after travels with Jannah?

 

That's why i think the Sith Empire victory would lead to that, imagine 1000 years post-SWTOR with that ending, by that point Sith ideology would be common place.

And i like your idea of Sith ISIS, the Sith and Rebels working together to stop the FO?

Plus, the Emperor idea doesn't sound as epic if the Commander in question is someone like the Great Champion or something like that.

 

and that’s why Malgus makes a better big bad then boring vitiate