Amph Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon — Fire & Blood book spoilers must be TAGGED

So this Alys Rivers might not be a ghost, but a witch, and a bit of the internet thinks she may be a Red Woman. A few bits go so far as to think she may be Melisandre.

 

It'll be interesting to see how much they draw on Fire And Blood lore for her - Eustace stuff, Mushroom stuff, Gyldayn stuff, or show-unique lore.

 

Ending of the episode was good took awhile to get there, there were a bunch of corpses though and haunting that was good

 

I really don't need this connection. A whole new aspect is fine with me.

 

From what i recently learned she is a forest witch tied to children of the forest and the mythical trees.

 

If these are book spoilers above, they should be tagged. The woman in the vision wasn't named in the episode. Not sure if she appeared in the credits.

 

You mean the young Rhaenyra who was sewing the baby’s head back on?

 

No, the Alys Rivers stuff.

 

Didn’t strike me as a vision. I thought he was standing there next to that tree. But I suppose it was a vision? Need to rewatch.

 

Alys Rivers is the prostitute Aemond favours, though I don't know if they've named her on-screen. I don't think she was in the vision (I'll need to watch the episode again, too), just in the scene at the brothel. I don't think any of this counts as spoilers for the show.

 

Wikipedia says:

Spoiler

that person is called Sylvi.

And Wikipedia states Sylvi is played by Michelle Bonnard, whereas Alys Rivers is played by Gayle Rankin.

 

Wow, I totally got that wrong, then. I've only just reread those chapters too, but I have to admit I'm struggling to retain much information. Must be my age.

Sorry for the disinformation.

Edit: Yeah, looking back at the chapters in question I'm talking nonsense. And I really will have to rewatch the episode, I was not paying attention last time.

 

Regarding the Harrenhal scene:

Spoiler

Given that Gayle Rankin is, on Wikipedia, listed in the cast for the episode The Burning Mill, I'm assuming she's playing the woman that speaks to Daemon at Harrenhal, and that this is Alys Rivers, and that her story will play out in a similar way to the way it did in Fire and Blood.

 

I don't think announced cast information is a spoiler? Maybe book information about her future storyline is, but not official cast info of who is playing who?

Spoiler: talking about the show, and some book spoilers

She is way more powerful than Melisandre, and her one "prediction" so far is very simple, very straightforward... and very correct.

This is also backed up in the books. She seems to be the most obviously magically strong person in the entire history of the world that we know about.

After a dance with dragons, she presents a son... who she says is Aemond's trueborn son, and heir to the Iron Throne. She sets a messenger to escape with their life, after they try to take Harrenhal back from "the Witch-Queen," and he says there's a dragon in Harrenhal, and urges people not to laugh, for Alys set a curse on anyone who laughs at the messenger's words. Someone laughs... and his head explodes. Even the most anti-magic historians, the maesters and the septons, document her as someone at least somewhat magical and just disagree on how much is true or not.


And it's just interesting that the first volume of Fire & Blood ends with the proclamation of Alys, and the end of the regency of Rhaenyra and Daemon's son who then takes his place on the Iron Throne as Aegon III (one of only 4 Targaryens to survive the war... well 6, but 2 die quite suspiciously as children not long after the war, and another was thought dead but comes back). But there are still dragons alive at this time, at least 4. And like I said, the volume ends with Aegon finally becoming King fully in his own right, and Alys the Witch-Queen proclaiming her son. Then there's no history for decades, really, for Aegon III's reign... other than we're told he mostly kept the peace, ruled wisely, but he was depressed so no one liked him (geez, I wonder why he was depressed). But we know that the remaining dragons did die during his reign, we aren't told how. We know he's called the "dragonbane" and abhorred being around dragons... but we know he was trying to bring them back near the end of his life. We have no idea what happened to Alys, her rule of Harrenhal, and the supposed son of Aemond and the dragon of Harrenhal. It's all so strangely silent. I think something was definitely going on.

Also, this isn't a book spoiler since it's show-specific and people only think this must be something GRRM said... but Aegon had his dream/vision/prophecy about a Targaryen with dragons needing to unite Westeros to defeat the return of the Others (which led him to the conquest, though that didn't necessarily mean the Targaryen leading and uniting Westeros has to be the ruler of Westeros...).

We know the only place Aegon or his sisters truly destroyed, besides some bloody battles, was Harrenhal.

Harrenhal is on the outer edge of the lake that surrounds the Island of Faces... which has more Weirwoods together than seem to be Weirwoods in the rest of the world. Never colonized. Right smack dab in the center of Westeros. Called the God's Eye. People called "the Green Men" live there. It's suspected the Children of the Forest still there... yes, that far south.

Harrenhal was built after cutting down numerous Weirwood just near the Isle of Faces.

GRRM has said all the magic in this world is the same magic, no "religion" has the full complete picture, that it will never be completely clarified for the reader on how it all works. Different people tap into it in different ways, and see it from different perspectives.

Could it be that Aegon's "dragon dream" was also a vision sent by the Children of the Forest? Or that he even secretly visited Harrenhal being built as he secretly wandered Westeros before the invasion (which we know happeped)? Could it be that the Children of the Forest, at the God's Eye, even met with him, they shared the vision, the Children of the Forest wanted a southern ally and one with dragons... and that the Children wanted revenge on Harren for building Harrenhal with the deaths of so many Weirwood trees? Harrenhal happens to just be the one place that the Conquest utterly destroyed. Though Harren was also a pretty cruel dictator, a king from the Iron Islands who ruled the Riverlands too and was in a good position to take over Westeros himself at the time, and who used slave labor (with the Targaryens, seeming alone among all Valyrians, despising slavery too).

I think it's all more connected than we thought.

And in the books, I'm convinced the Others/ White Walkers won't be stopped at Winterfell. They might not even try take Winterfell. I think they might march straight to the Isle of Faces in the God's Eye... and that the final battle will be fought there.
At the literal center of Westeros in a geographic, political, historical, and magical sense (the Inn of the Crossroads is also very close to it)

Unlike the GoT show, the House of the Dragon show seems to be embracing GRRM's magic angle from the books, while the GoT creators mostly left it out to focus on the politics and the Iron Throne. After this last week's episode, it seems they're finally doing Harrenhal right.

And think of all else that has happened at Harrenhal, besides Harren killing weirwoods to build it, and Aegon the Conqueror destroying it
- This is the place that Rhaegar completely departed from his plans, and chose Lyanna, first at the tourney, and later said to be near where he "abducted" her
- This is where Aerys chose Jaime Lannister to become his Kingsguard
- This is the place that Jahaerys had his great council, where Viserys was chosen
- This is the place where Aegon the Uncrowned died, in the only other time a Targaryen killed a Targaryen or a dragon killed a dragon (that Aegon being killed by Maegor), before the events of House of the Dragon
- It is right near here that Catlyn takes Tyrion
- It is at Harrenhal that Roose Bolton and Tywin Lannister both briefly rule, (and the Freys with Roose Bolton), and likely where Robb Stark's fate is sealed
- It is at Harrenhal that Arya learns of the Faceless Men, where she is cupbearer, and claims she has become the ghost of Harrenhal
- Jaime has a weird dream at a Weirwood stump near Harrenhal, and does his 180, deciding to rescue Brienne, and beginning a radical shift in his life's journey
- Jaime also loses his hand, and confesses the wildfire plot of the Mad King, here
- the traitor to Ned Stark, Janos Slynt, is (very, very briefly) the Lord of Harrenhal
- The Strongs ruled Harrenhal for a time, and we see the effect that Harwin Strong and Larys Strong have had on each Team Black and Team Green, or how their father guided Viserys in Hightower's absence.
- I also listened to a theory of how __ could maybe have led to House Whent, who served and then ruled Harrenhal for years... and Catlyn Tully/Stark's mother was one of the last survivors of House Whent, and Cat says her sole surviving relative in the House of Whent is still living, but with the ghosts of Harrenhal in its deep caverns, and after she lets others take Harrenhal in the main story she just disappears.
- Rhaena Targaryen, who would have been ruling Queen even before Rhaenys if the oldest living child was the heir, not just oldest living male child, who was wife to both heirs to the Iron Throne, whose eggs likely became the three that get to Daeranys, is also said to dwell there after her tragedies.
- It also seems to have some powerful, or strange, or mystical woman near it at most times... even if the names and appearances and supposed backstories keep changing. Alys Rivers, Lady Whent, Rhaena Targaryen, Danelle Lothston.
- the Woods Witch (the Ghost of High Heart) who prophecized the Prince Who Was Promised would come from the blood of Aerys and his sister Rhaella (which then convinced their parents to force them into their unhappy marriage), and who was the friend of and the one who one who sings of Jenny of Oldstones (who the heir to Aegon V, Duncan, fell in love with, and he abandoned his right to the Iron Throne to marry Jenny, which also led to Aerys taking the throne and becoming the Mad King) was from the woods near Harrenhal and the God's Eye, and connected to the Children of the Forest --- another case of the interests of the Children of the Forest, of the Targaryens, and of the Promise That Was Promised aligning... fire and ice together
- Let's just say the House of the Dragon will feature some key events here. As the show already said, the Riverlands are the center of Westeros and the key to this war, and Harrenhal is the center of and the key to the Riverlands (and this always seems to be the case for the poor Riverlands being ruined in basically every war)
- Guess who owns Harrenhal in the "present" of the book timeline? Littlefinger. And while he seems as political and non-magical/non-superstitious as you can get, he has seemingly feared to venture into Harrenhal so far. And between the Lady Whent connection, the Tully/Riverlands connection, and the Littlefinger connection... it seems Sansa is set-up to become the next key Lady of Harrenhal... and I believe GRRM says that she will unlock her Skinchanger connections too. Though Arya also claims to have become the Ghost of Harrenhal during her time there... I'm sure it will somehow be key to the Stark sisters' futures, and likely the future of Bran, Jon, Daenerys, Jaime, and Brienne

So... yeah. Harrenhal was underplayed in Game of Thrones. They seem to be doing it justice, and closer to the book version, here.

Spoiler

It doesn't seem unlikely that Alys Rivers had many identities and faces before being "Alys Rivers"... and it doesn't seem unlikely that this could continue, and she may even still be alive in the "present day" story. Though I'm not sure she's Melisandre. She seems much more powerful, and more correct in her foresight, than anyone else we've met.

 

Holy hell

 

Pour one out for

Spoiler

Meleys and the Queen that never was.

 

Holy sith sooooooooooo mfn GOOD!!!!

That seals it Im starting a S1 rewatch.

 

Well. That was heavy. This show keeps elevating.

 

That was great. Dragon action.

 

Even though I knew she wasn't going to survive (and no I haven't read the books but it seemed telegraphed for weeks), I greatly enjoyed how she went out. She could have fled several times but she served her Queen faithfully to the end. The best Queen Who Never Was.

 

Jesus Christ this show is good. Four nearly perfect episodes. And, IMO, it shows the horrors of nuclear war better than Oppenheimer did! Devastating imagery.

 

You see how nuclear dragons are. Vhagar is like a Godzilla beast

 

Spoiler

The only problem now is that Rhaenys was the best character on the show and it wasn't close...