Lit General post NJO Discussion thread.

I mean we probably can assume that Jacen had lots of "character development" between NJO and DNT and then it and LotF given that he is essentially a completly new character by that point.

I assume Jaina spend this time playing "will they/won´t they" with Jagged and Zekk, while Luke and Mara spoiled Ben...

In the two years between LOTF and FOTJ I assume the Confeds realized what a bad idea their seccession was given how they come crawling back to the GA... One wonder how Phennir could hold onto his post after exposing himself as a complete hypocrite...

 

We basically missed the 20's for Jacen/Jaina and their generation.

But then LOTF/FOTJ had some of them still acting like teens or early 20s... despite approaching 40 years old.

 

LOTF treats Venku Skirita, a man in his 60's, as a young new to the scene firebrand shaking up the system. Lmao.

What a joke

 

Jacen was IIRC 31 at the time of his death. And Jaina was 36 or so when she became a master.

Unfortunate in that the thirties ABY-30 ABY to 39 ABY-we only get a two year period in the middle.

That’s a third of Jacen’s life. The fact that the post NJO is built around Jacen and we don’t get stuff on this is truly awful.

 

Finding out what Jacen was up to during that period was sold as the core plot component of FotJ, and then it got dropped about a book and a half in and never discussed again.

 

I'd say they were treated like they were in their teens and early 20s.

Basically because they would have to admit that spending 5 years learning obscure Force skills doesn't get him to Caedus.

 

Much like all good ideas post NJO.

 

I think there should have been a larger timeskip.
Like have Jacen and Jaina in their forties, Ben in his twenties, and Allana in her teens. This would remove some creepyness from the story, allow for Jacen to have a more believable rise to power in the GA, have the big 3 now in their seventies so we might be able to explain Luke simply not being in his prime anymore and this weaker than Jacen one on one, so there doesn´t need to be a contrived explanation as to why he isn´t simply killing him...

Also have had Lumyia contact Jacen earlier, even if its first only through middle men, for the corruption to be believable.

And maybe have Omas actually retire and be replaced by a new Chief of State who is more proactive, so the seccesion of the Confeds makes more sense...

 

I don’t think a larger time skip was needed, if written well Dark Nest and LOTF could have explained Jacen’s fall well enough. Ben as a teenager was a good thing to me, despite the creepiness, as literally everyone else was an adult. Luke being in his sixties and not in his prime still makes sense. The time skip isn’t the problem, the series was.

I think it would have been nice if Lumiya first showed up in Dark Nest.

 

LotF is very disconnected from the rest of the EU and even itself. While all stories need to stand alone I think either they needed Jacen to fall in Dark Nest OR put those three books into LotF. Show a slower descent.

 

We had some closure in Ascension.

(continues on like that for some paragraphs)

 

I have many issues with that last sentence.

Since this didn't clean up why Jacen fell.

 

He was already dark in DNT. Him completing his fall in book 1 of LOTF isn't a surprise, it was a slow 4-book descent. The issue was how Jacen already fell so much between NJO and DNT. Which they tried to explore in FOTJ to mixed success.

 

"Mixed" is being entirely to generous

 

You know, I kind of want to see a story from Jacen’s POV in the four years between DNT and LOTF. It wouldn’t have any major events or crises, but would focus more on his state of mind between series.

It could explore him being disillusioned with the Jedi, increasingly concerned with tensions in the galaxy leading to war, constant worrying over Allana, and just a general lack of interest/withdrawal from his normal life and routine.

Training Ben is rewarding but isn’t really challenging, doing lightsaber instruction at the academy is nice and it’s good to see the young Jedi grow-but surely I(Jacen’s internal monologue) could be doing something more valuable, more challenging, more engaging.

Occasional visits with Tenel Ka are tedious and also painful-given all the stress involved of keeping it secret and the pain of never being able to be with her publicly.

Also, wondering about the visions he’s had of galactic emperors and endless war and white thrones.

Come to think of it-if they really wanted to “explain” Jacen’s downfall these four years between DNT and LOTF are the perfect time period in which to do so.

 

But they didn't. They wanted him evil then dead and then move on. He is a bad guy, because we say so and we say so because he is evil. Look at how evil he acts.

Ironically I don't Jacen was ever a Sith.

Also double Irony the Lost Tribe give a better example of good Sith than Lumyua's story.

 

The lost tribe are just soft. They had integrated somewhat with Keshiri society. The ancient Sith would have considered them embarrassing.

 

The Ancient Sith consider everyone embarrassing. They are that impossible to please inlaws. "back in my day we didn't have your lightsabers, we had to use our hands!", etc.

 

I was looking at post-ROTJ's history of Balance of the Force in Legends and found some interesting bits that may or may not be connected:

The Chosen One, Anakin Skywalker, brought Balance to the Force (whatever that means) in ROTJ when he ended the Sith after ending the Jedi previously, with both reborn from surviving strands of lore, artifacts and purge survivors that would go on to ressurrect both orders over the course of time. Balance of the Force was no status quo but a single moment in time where Anakin reset the scale so to speak. From then on, both sides would once more dance around balance starting over fresh.

With the rise of Lukes new Jedi Order, the number of Darksiders they took down grew and as old Darksiders were taken out yet new ones from the Jedi ranks fell to fill the empty spaces. Yet many Forceusers post ROTJ had a more balanced approach (in their own interpretation of balance that is) than before ROTJ with two opposite dogmatic orders and a variety of localised ancient cults both light and dark.

The Witches of Dathomir got rid of their Nightsisters yet embraced both sides of the Force. Luke's Jedi got rid of the Sith yet were closer to emrbacing both sides of the Force than the previous order, and they even grew into trying various ideas of how to embrace both later on. The Jensaarai were an odd mix of Jedi and Sith doctrine. And many others also strove to find and live balance in their own interpretation. Post Chosen One, the era of defining what balance meant in life and service to the Force was a huge experiment by many cults and orders and individual forceusers, such as Vergere, Lumiya, Jacen Solo and many others.

After the NJO+LOTF+FOTJ it gets interesting:

Regardless of who fell to the dark and who fell to the light in experimenting with balanced approaches, regardless who used the premise only for own sinister goals and who sincerely tried to achieve and maintain balance, later on, the Legacy era would return to cement a few factions after an era of flux. The Jedi abandoned experimentation after Caedus and found their balance in returning to their origins of the Jeedai of Tython, a truer ancient Jedi way yet one firmly in the light without neglecting the dark. More proactivem the Imperial Knights found their path cut out for them quite separate from the Jedi's and still not in the dark. The Sith grew in secret in number and stuck to the dark once more.
Yet despite the factions overall fixed alignments, individuals in all of them still maintained the quest for the true meaning of balance.

A prophecy spoke of Allana Djo Solo on the Throne of Balance, the Mortis Knights quested for the Mortis Monolith and with it a nexus of the Force that may be crucial for maintaining balance, wether its throne be real, metaphorical or else. Darth Krayt was clever enough to be wary of the Light and maintain a strict balance to neither betray the Sith in hiding nor his own goals and yet actively manipulate things. Free of government control the Jedi under Kol Skywalker strove to act on behalf of all people, even the Vong survivors no more taking sides. Ben Skywalker and Vestara Khai flirted dancing around each other as if able to bridge the dark and light divide in a brief moment of orgasmic balance. Tahiri Veila too had worn many faces and lived many lifes to the point of freeing herself from all of them and their burdens so she may hopefully have found her own balance, like Raynar Unu Thul did too after his own ordeals when he returned to the Jedi fold a bit wiser.

Now, after cults no longer experimented and even individuals fell back into their sides despite having learned and gained much from experimenting with balance, the Legacy era comics show us another conflict and another Skywalker torn between light and dark finally ending one villain as another Solo finishes what he started. In the end with neither Sith nor Jedi gone, a new era dawns. Less imbalanced than the age of light and darkness that came to an end. A new era will allow even for a joined Jedi and Sith Council down the line as they work together for a time. In the Era of Balance there are still Light and Darksiders, there still is conflict, yet the more people know and maintain their inner balance despite strifes to either side occasionally, conflicts are less violent or permanent than in the past age where large groups of ignorant, unknowing or misguided people fell in line behind names and factions with their personal alignments out of control.

 

So for all of us who shiped Ben x Vestara we were suckers, according to this source. Since it was never a plan for them to be together. So then why get fans (like me and others) invested in them, why push them? Why waste our time?



This seems like the reason someone gave for not having Jacen Redeemed, cause it would be like Vader did. Cause I guess force forbid we don't get a depressing opening ended ending.

 

Really fascinating how we were so close to having a timelime were the ST was closer to legacy of the force then dark empire in terms of Kylo arc

 

I prefer redemption.

Also Kylo did WAY worse stuff than Jacen.

 

Agreed

Redemption or the ability to return to the light is one of the core tenants and themes of Star Wars

 

I agree. Why I like NJO and dislike the post NJO was that the former had redemption while post-NJO seemed to hate the very idea. Apparently it was repetitive, but darksiders aren't it seemed.

 

I mean, if they had treated Vestara as having some sort of "almost redeemed, then backsliding arc" from the beginning it could have worked. Vestara starts off as a villain, there is some evidence she might be redeemed, but it turns that no she was always going to remain a selfish sith lady and if we re read it earlier we would see the clues-you know subverting expectations in an artful and actually competent way.

But they seem to want her as some sort of re occurring villainess/maybe anti heroine just because well its an easy concept to work with.

As for Romeo and Juliet, really? There is no tragedy, no terrible pathos with regards to Bestara at all. If they wanted something like that, Ben holds out she'll be redeemed, and gets suckered like the audience-under competent authors, great authors that could have been compelling(if dark) but whatever they claim they were going for they clearly failed to deliver.

I stand by my prediction-that Denning had Benhiri planned, and this evidence more or less leaves it the only romantic option for Ben they had. So I'm right. And on this subject I wish I wasn't.

It definitely looked like that until TROS if you ask me.

I mean, they don't seem to be treating as "we wanted to pull the rug out from the readers, and torment their heart strings"-that doesn't seem to be their plan, if it was then perhaps if it had been executed differently I might have accepted it. But yeah, why bother, especially given that Vestara is probably one of the most interesting parts of FOTJ.