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Saga George Lucas Canon

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Lord Sith Harloxzz, Jan 24, 2022.

  1. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    "Jedi vs Sith" plays it up as Darth Bane came up with both the Darth title and the Rule of Two. KOTOR plays it as the Darth title being older, and that the Rule of Two was invented by Reaven, but later abandoned.
     
  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Darth is a forename though, not a title. The title of the Sith is "Lord".
     
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  3. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager -King of the North star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Lord Darth Vader is then his full correct name unless its GOT like.....Lord Darth Vader, first of his name, slayer of the jedi, choker of the insolent.
     
  4. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    "I am Lord Darth Vader, first Knight of the Sith, and right hand to His Eminence Prince Espaa Valorum, the Master of the Bogan. You will not mock me, or my Master; for the Ashla is weak, and the Force of Others cannot save you now..." - The Star Wars (second draft), 1975
     
  5. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 9, 2017
    And in a draft script for Attack of The Clones, Yoda refers to Darth as a forename of the Sith. It’s like their surname, not a title
     
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  6. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Precisely. And Lord being the title of the Sith is established throughout the movies. Lord Vader, Lord Sidious, Lord Maul, Lord Tyranus. They are Sith Lords.
     
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  7. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 1, 2005
    I had to look up the exchange because I was very curious, so here it is for others:

    OBI-WAN
    One more thing. Jango mentioned he was recruited by someone named Darth Tyranus. Any idea who that might be?​

    YODA
    With the forename Darth, a Sith he must be.​

    What’s interesting is that this sounds like it might not be common knowledge among the Jedi. That would mean non-Jedi are even less likely to know about it.

    It highlights that just because senior members of the Council (and the audience) know something about the Sith, it doesn’t mean everyone else does too.

    This makes me think about the Rule of Two and the question it raises about how the Jedi would knew of it if it was followed by the Sith only once they were thought destroyed. And the Jedi also knew about Darth Bane. Here’s what Mace Windu says about this in the novelization of Revenge of the Sith:

    “Since the fall of Darth Bane more than a millennium ago, there have been hundreds of thousands of Jedi.... and in all these thousand years, there have been only two Sith at any time. Only two.”
    But perhaps only the Council knew this, having learned it through unknown means after the destruction of the Sith. Perhaps they knew of Bane’s death and his new order but never got confirmation that his apprentice had died. The context of the movies implies knowledge of the Sith really is quite scarce, and the Jedi just have to deal with not knowing more than scant details for long periods of time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2022
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  8. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    That was the first draft. Lucas changed it during reshoots. Jango never says Darth to Obi-Wan in the final film. In TCW, Obi-Wan even says "You're Tyranus?", when Dooku is identified by the Pykes. No Darth is mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2022
  9. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    It's just exposition. Obi-Wan doesn't ask what he is, but who he is. But then all of this was removed since it would take away from the mystery and be a dead giveaway of the entire plot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2022
  10. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 2, 2015
    Darth as it exists in canon is currently a surname. Newly anointed Sith Lords adopt the Darth surname and former Sith Lords who are lucky enough to survive such as Maul denounce it. In Maul's case he tried and failed to remain as Darth Maul by establishing a rival Sith faction, but Darth Sidious puts him in his place and by the time of Rebels he renounces his ties to the Sith. He remains an adherent to the Dark Side, but abandons his loyalty to the Sith's legacy, become Maul, "formerly Darth"

    The title Lord is probably an anachronism of the Sith as they existed prior to Bane, because if there's only two at a time so what does that make the Apprentice a Lord of? The title plays conveniently into the fascist bureaucracy of the Empire though. The only source of power in the Empire is the Emperor. There are no Heir Apparents, but an endless bureaucracy. Lord Darth Vader may be seen as the one closest to the Emperor, but in reality Lord Vader's authority only extended so far as The Emperor commanded it to be. Then there's also the Imperial Ruling Council and the various individuals who rose to the level of trust within The Emperor's sphere to be given "Grand" status over all of the top ranking elements within the Empire. And even with those Grand Moffs, Grand Admirals, the Grand Inquisitor there are also "Directors" of various departments like Krennic
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
  11. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 9, 2017
    There’s no contradiction between their only being two Sith at a time and the title of Lord. The two Sith were Lords over an empire in the early days of the Sith
     
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  12. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 2, 2015
    After Bane it is a contradiction because there is only two Sith period. There are no underling Sith adherents. Inquisitors maybe, but they're not true Sith. Darth Vader is referred to as "My Lord" or "Lord Vader" among the ranks of the Empire but his authority only stems as far as Sheev Palpatine decrees. He's seen as the closest person to Emperor Palpatine but in reality, Palpatine purposely designed his Empire so that there was no right hand man, only a vast bureaucracy with a number of high ranking individuals, "Lord" Darth Vader's place being ambiguous in the hierarchy among them. And Palpatine went so far as to design his Empire to fail if it were to let him die.
    But that's getting away from Lucas canon.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
  13. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 9, 2017
    Why would the Sith renounce the title of lord when they intended to restore their rule over the galaxy?

    Vader’s rank is quite clear. He’s a Sith Lord, and the apprentice of the Emperor
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
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  14. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    There's no contradiction, as Sith they are still Lords. They still rule and exert power over others, and their purpose is to rule the galaxy. It's a title that comes with the "sect".
     
  15. Vezner

    Vezner Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 29, 2001
    I think this sums it up pretty nicely:
    "There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books." - George Lucas

    So I see it as GL's canon is the 6 original movies and everything else is a parallel universe, even TCW. Sure, he may have had some input in the other media, but ultimately the 6 movies are his creation and the true Star Wars canon.

    The Disney stuff is a different universe altogether and one that I have mostly lost interest in. I still haven't even watched Andor. Maybe I will some day. Not sure.
     
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